Little Help

[truckie174]

I am attempting to diagnose an issue with a friends tank. He has a 30 gal. FOWLR. All of his parameters have been checking out ok. I have tested, another mutual friend has tested, and a LFS has also tested. The problem is, for some reason he has had several fish die for no aparent reason lately.
Most recently a small (1.5-2 inch Blue Hippo and cleaner shrimp). He hasn't actually seen the shrimp dead, but is assuming the worst. He was planning on upsizing his tank before the hippo got much bigger, but with the sudden dieoff of fish, he is thinking about just tearing it down and calling it quits.
I did notice a small outbreak of Apstasia. In my readings on here, I haven't seen anything saying thay it is a strong enough sting to kill a fish. I have seen plenty to confirm that it would harm coral and small inverts. So any other ideas? At this point I am looking for plenty of them. Thanks Jack

 

[mie]

How long has the tank been up and running for?
Stray voltage could also be the reason.
Could you give a little better detail on "all peramiters are good"?
What are the tankmates?

 

[ophiura]

Well, the small blue tangs have a very poor survival rate so in and of itself that does not indicate a problem to me.
We'll need to know more about the fish, timing, set up and SPECIFIC tank parameters (including specific gravity, temp, pH, alk and calcium) as often what seems OK may really be an issue.
It is not an aiptasia issue, though an increase in aptasia is often due to a water quality/nutrient load issue.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/2560466
Well, the small blue tangs have a very poor survival rate so in and of itself that does not indicate a problem to me.
We'll need to know more about the fish, timing, set up and SPECIFIC tank parameters (including specific gravity, temp, pH, alk and calcium) as often what seems OK may really be an issue.
It is not an aiptasia issue, though an increase in aptasia is often due to a water quality/nutrient load issue.
I agree here, juvenile tangs (especially hippos) are usually very hard to keep, especially in smaller tanks for longer term. All tangs require very good aeration as well, and if the tank had a lid or cover of some sort that kept much air from getting in, it likely couldn't get enough oxygen. Was it breathing funny at all prior to death?

 

[perfectdark]

Just to add a time line question... how long after introduction to the tank did they die. Acclimation shock shouldnt be ruled out, 3 days after adding them to your tank is generally the cut off time, but more info is needed.

 

[michaeltx]

also something else to think about is that if one fish died and was left in the tank it could have caused an ammonia spike that could hurt the other fish in the tank.
just a idea anyway
Mike

 

[truckie174]

There are some of your questions that I currently don't have answers to. Bu the ones that I do know.
Temp - 77-78
Salt-1.024 (whydrometer)
Ph-8.2
Nitrite-0
nitrate-0
Ammonia-0
These were the #'s as I remember them, and If I recall, they were the same or very similar with the other two people that have tested them. I don't have some of the other tests, that you have asked for I.E. Calcium and such, but will look into them. And am also not sure about acclimation Techniques. But all of the fish that have died were in the tank for longer than 2 weeks each time.
Thinking back to recent deaths, a valentini puffer, the hippo,(both pretty small) and a couple more, but can't recall what they were.
I took a False Perc. from him about a month ago,2-3 inches long. He thought that it was bullying and possibly the cause of some of the other deaths. (the ones I can't remember). I put him in with a smaller False Perc. And recently added a Yellow tang, and manderin goby. I haven't had an issue with him at all. So far so good. So I don't feel he was the issue.
Unless we are just looking at stress, from it being a smaller tank? I know there are plenty of Nano and 30 gallon tanks out there, so I don't think thats it. He hasn't had any more than 2-3 fish at a time. Oh, and the tank has been up and running for 3-4 months.
And thanks for all of the replies, sorry to be so long winded, but I want to answer as much as I can. Jack

 

[sepulatian]

Can you descibe the set up? What does he have for flow in the tank? Any chemicals being used on or around the tank?

 

[m0nk]

Was the tank fully cycled before putting any fish in there? With that many deaths in just 2 weeks each time I can't help but wonder if the tank just isn't setup properly to support fish....
But the ones he chose are definitely not for small tanks anyway. How long was the clown in there before you took it to your tank?

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by Truckie174
http:///forum/post/2560878
. . . But all of the fish that have died were in the tank for longer than 2 weeks each time.
Thinking back to recent deaths, a valentini puffer, the hippo,(both pretty small) and a couple more, but can't recall what they were.
I took a False Perc. from him about a month ago,2-3 inches long. He thought that it was bullying and possibly the cause of some of the other deaths. (the ones I can't remember). I put him in with a smaller False Perc. And recently added a Yellow tang, and manderin goby. I haven't had an issue with him at all. So far so good. So I don't feel he was the issue.
Unless we are just looking at stress, from it being a smaller tank? I know there are plenty of Nano and 30 gallon tanks out there, so I don't think thats it. He hasn't had any more than 2-3 fish at a time. Oh, and the tank has been up and running for 3-4 months.
And thanks for all of the replies, sorry to be so long winded, but I want to answer as much as I can. Jack
Just an observation, cause I'm not a fish guy ~ the tank has been set up for only 3 or 4 months, he's consistently had 2 or 3 fish in it over that time period (you've indicated at least four dead and one you took ~ all of which were present for at least two weeks prior to death), and several were fish that shouldn't ever have been in a tank of that size. I really can't imagine any way in which the nitrates in this tank have remained zero or anywhere close to any acceptable range. JMO, but this is pretty hard to imagine; ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates may be testing zero now, but I'd be willing to bet a lot that that hasn't been the case all along.

 

[truckie174]

Whew!, I finally made it back. My long afternoon turned into a long evening.
Well after talking to him this evening, he has decided to tear the tank down, he has found a home for his last remaining fish, inverts, and LR.
I think in the end it came down to, too much to soon. And an improper set up (i think). I was unaware as to how soon he put fish in the tank. He didn't have much (or anything) for flow. He had a HOB skimmer and a biowheel, but nothing else for flow. Put all that together with the wrong fish for that tank and it was a recipe for disaster.
Its sad to see him give up so soon, especially in a hobby that has brought a lot of fun and learning into my home, but at this point he just wants to get out before anything else gets hurt.
m0nk- you had asked about the fish I took from him, as it turns out, that was the first fish that he put in there. He really must be one tuff fish! But he is doing awesome in my tank. Thanks again to all that have helped. Jack