Live Rock vs Bio Balls in sump ??

tither

tither

Member
Originally Posted by mudplayerx
The exposure to waterflow would be better...but I don't even have a sump so I'm just guessing. However, I do have bags of sand and liverock in all of my hang on the back filters. I rinse those a few times a week in distilled water.
HOLD ON ............... JUST SO YOU KNOW IF YOU RINSE YOUR STUFF IN THAT WATER YOU WILL HURT OR KILL ALL THE BACTERIA AND GOOD STUFF IN AND ON THE SAND.... THEY LIVE IN SALT WATER NOT FRESH. BEST BET IS TO CLEAN THEM IN SOME WATER FROM YOUR TANK WITH ALL THE SAME WATER PARAMETERS.. HOPE IT HELPS. HAPPY REEFING
 
birdy

birdy

Active Member
Tither is right you always want to rinse your filters and things in saltwater not freshwater, cleaning them with distilled will kill off the good bacteria.
Tither- it is very very difficult to read your post as you keep going back and forth between CAPS and lower case, stick to lower case. I don't understand why you keep posting your phone #, message boards are for sharing information, not for personal calls and racking up clients. If you have information from your years of experience share it with everyone.
 
fuax

fuax

Member
Mudplayer just a thought but I think you may have anaerobic and aerobic bacterias confused.
 
mr_bill

mr_bill

Active Member
OK, so if someone wanted to swap out between bio-balls and LR what would be their best course of action?
I understand about the LR life cycle thing and that bio-balls do not have the same level nitrate breakdown, but with regular cleaning you still don't have any worries. So for the sake of making life a little easier... what are the steps for swaping out bio-balls for LR without crashing a tank?
You can not just pull them all out and replace them with rock, the LR would not be a 1 for 1 even trade unless you had some kind of bacteria radar counter.
 
reefnut

reefnut

Active Member
You would have to slowly swap them out. Take out a hand full of bio-balls and add a hand full of LR... wait a week or two and then repeat the process until all of the bio-balls are removed.
 
mr_bill

mr_bill

Active Member
OH but what if you had bioballs above the waterline in the wet/dry and then chunks of LR below the waterline?
Reason I ask is because I have been running like this for the last month and a half. Water comes from display tank and drops through bio-balls first then passes LR then skimmer then back to display tank. I've never had a issue with bad levels or high nitrates(20 currently).
 
birdy

birdy

Active Member
See I would consider 20 high nitrates for me, unless it is a fish only tank.
If you are happy with your setup and are not having any problems then don't change anything.
 
mr_bill

mr_bill

Active Member
ARRRGH!!
The need for me to be one step ahead of a potential problem is what is driving my question. At this point my plan is to start removing the bioballs a handfull at a time.
 
surfer 2

surfer 2

Member
Ok ,, the main reason I was going to put something in the area is to reduce noise from the drip plate to were the water hits the sump,, splashing noise,, thougth about LR to reduce the level of water splash,,,
As far as putting more LR in my tank,, I like the look I have now. I have approx 45lbs or LR in a 40g tank,, could add LR to sump without changing look of aquascape,, and besides have a hard time getting aquascape to look good, that is why I do not want to mess it up.
 
tither

tither

Member
Originally Posted by Birdy
Tither is right you always want to rinse your filters and things in saltwater not freshwater, cleaning them with distilled will kill off the good bacteria.
Tither- it is very very difficult to read your post as you keep going back and forth between CAPS and lower case, stick to lower case. I don't understand why you keep posting your phone #, message boards are for sharing information, not for personal calls and racking up clients. If you have information from your years of experience share it with everyone.

i type in caps cause its easier to read..... no big deal.. FYI i am a associate paster at a church in al. and i havent had my fish tank business in 6 years. i am a slow typer so it would be more convient for me to share over the phone on some areas that would require me to type a bunch. i apoligise if it looked like i was trying to get someones money. im NOT, just love the hobby and try to help people, thats what i do for a living, help people. happy reefing :happy:
 
mudplayerx

mudplayerx

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fuax
Mudplayer just a thought but I think you may have anaerobic and aerobic bacterias confused.
You are completely right, and I was wrong. I was thinking of facultative bacteria. Aerobic bacteria require full atmospheric oxygen to live. My apologies.
 
coopersx

coopersx

Member
As far as using tap water for cleaning the filter for the drip plate (or any other filter that has small pours similar to a coffee filter )will not have a significant impact on the systems biological filtration. The sponge in the sump could probably easily be wrung out in salt water but there is no way in the world you are going to get the cloth type filter's clean of small debrie (making it pourous again) short of a hard stream of water. I do not see any difference from washing a filter in tap water over replacing it with a new filter (which also has no bacteria). The amount of rock in the tank should have enough beneficial bacteria to take care of things.
Definetly do not clean live rock or sand with tap water. As far as distilled water...never add this to a tank as your top off water. Something about the minerals that were removed from the distilled water can actually cause these same removed minerals to be pulled from the fish...trying to reach a balance/equilibrium...or something like that.
Take care, Wayne
 
mudplayerx

mudplayerx

Active Member
I've used distilled water exclusively in my freshwater tanks for over 15 years, and also in my saltwater tank for over 8 months. It doesn't harm anything. I'm not sure where you heard that, but it is not correct.
What you are describing is osmosis/diffusion and this would only occur on a drastic enough level to harm a fish if you put the saltwater fish directly into distilled water containing no salt. Diffusion takes a pretty long time... around 45 minutes for total diffusion of a small particulate solute. Theres no way a gallon of distilled water added to a 55 gallon tank full of saltwater is going to diffuse a fish's electrolytes.
 
coopersx

coopersx

Member
I probably heard it as one of those extreme examples like you hear about such as never wring out your filter pad in fresh water. I will look for the link and post it. I am unsure of the site at this point.
Take care, Wayne
P.S. There are a lot of things you should not do if you want to be a perfectionist...but most can get away with it with out a single problem. The distilled water reply is probably one of those extreme examples where it was stated it could hurt the fish.
 
tither

tither

Member
Originally Posted by coopersx
As far as using tap water for cleaning the filter for the drip plate (or any other filter that has small pours similar to a coffee filter )will not have a significant impact on the systems biological filtration. The sponge in the sump could probably easily be wrung out in salt water but there is no way in the world you are going to get the cloth type filter's clean of small debrie (making it pourous again) short of a hard stream of water. I do not see any difference from washing a filter in tap water over replacing it with a new filter (which also has no bacteria). The amount of rock in the tank should have enough beneficial bacteria to take care of things.
Definetly do not clean live rock or sand with tap water. As far as distilled water...never add this to a tank as your top off water. Something about the minerals that were removed from the distilled water can actually cause these same removed minerals to be pulled from the fish...trying to reach a balance/equilibrium...or something like that.
Take care, Wayne
mudplayerx in his post talked about using tap water to clean nis sand bags etc... in his hang on the back filter. that is where the cleaning thought came in, and it will hurt the eco system of the tank to do that. but you are absolutly correct about the filters in the true sump.. happy reefing :jumping:
 
coopersx

coopersx

Member
Here is an article which states just what you had clarified... That distilled water is safe to use as top off water in a marine setting that contains fish. One site states do not use distilled water about every other sentence :)...
One problem. In my most recent research it states that Distilled water should not be used because of the increased potential of contaminating ones system with "metals" <G>
Thanks for correcting and clarifying my stament about the distilled water.
Sincerely, Wayne
THE ARTICLE:
Distilled water
Bob,
I've been using distilled water with a auto doser for topping off my 75 gal tank. Is distilled water ok to use? I pulled this off a web site.
<It is okay... just expensive... and impractical insomuch as you've got to go get it and lug it around... R.O. or Deionized (made at home) would be more than fine>
"This applies to distilled water in that you have an extremely low (if not zero) concentration of salts and other minerals in distilled water. A frog's cells, on the other hand are chock-full of salts and enzymes and minerals - in short, highly concentrated. The cell membrane of a frog cell, and indeed, one of any animal, is water-permeable, allowing the distilled water to cross over into the cells
in an attempt to equalize the concentration of substances on either side
of the cell wall. The pressure will build up more and more until the cell pops.
If a frog is exposed to distilled water on a consistent basis, then it will eventually die. (BTW: the same goes for people [takes a while] and fish, the latter being the subject of a rather odd running joke in my biology class "The exploding goldfish")
In summary, I would avoid the use of distilled water with any aquatic /
semi aquatic species. Instead, look around at spring water.
Artesian sources are usually a fairly safe source in my experience. "
<Not bunk... if you were keeping your livestock in just this water... however, your salt mix has plenty of ions, other dissolved solids... that don't leave solution... when the water otherwise evaporates... and that is what you're replacing>
Can you tell me if this is bunk? And a simple question, will boxfish consume soft corals?
<Sometimes, yes.>
Look forward to reading the questions everyday. Thanks, Darren
<Glad that we're connecting. Bob Fenner>
 
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