Live Rock vs Live Sand

eclipseagent

eclipseagent

Member
Which is better for which set ups?
I have a 29 gallon and am looking to use it as a good starter saltwater fish tank.
Right now I have 20Lbs of live sand 3 3 striped damsels and 2 green chomies (sp). I set up the tank just 2 days ago so there is no other living things inside (except for what comes with the live sand). I have not tested it for nitrate but will once I conjour up the change for a nitrate testing kit.
I have checked the PH and it is about correct the tank is staying at a steady temp of 76-78.
Is it safe to put anemone's in at this point or do I wanna wait until it is more settled?
 
a&m aggie 04'

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
no you should not put any other fish, coral, anemone in. Damsels are very hardy, meaning that they can withstand lackluster water quality- cyclying. Anemones are very hard to keep under perfect water conditions, im not sure what lighting you have but they also require very strong lighting. Im cycling my tank right now also, with 25 lbs rock and just have 1 damsel in as of now.
So the answer to your question is no, your tank is not ready to support any type of coral since it was only set up 2 days ago.
As for the question about live rock or live sand, all i can tell you is that together they can act as a very sufficient biological filtration unit. Im not sure if one is better than the other but i would say if you were going to do one or the other, id do the sand. You would have to put something on the bottom now, and if you chose crushed coral you'd eventually be taking it out.
You are going to need at least 4" of live sand in order to get the benefits.
 
eclipseagent

eclipseagent

Member
So you are telling me that sand straigt on the bottom of the aquarium is not good? And why is that?
Yeah I knew that the dansels where very hearty that is why I got them :)
I needed everything to mix well.
I have a hydrometer and the salt level is perfect 1.022-1.023.
I was gonna wait about 4-6 weeks before I added the sea anemone.
So again is it not good to add just straight Live sand to the bottom? Thanks.
But what is the difference from live sand and rock? Is it just the corseness? Is the sand too compact and the water does not cycle through it? Thanks.
 
new

new

Member
the live sand can be placed right on the bottom, he is refering to a DSB(deep sand bed) which is very popular for helping to control nitrates. the live rock i believe you to be refering to is the larger "decorative" rocks that have coraline and bacteria and all kinds of different things on them, completely different from the sand or coral substrates.
 
eclipseagent

eclipseagent

Member
Oh cool.
I gotta tell ya this saltwater tank is way more stressful than my freshwater tank. LOL.
What kinda filtration should I use? Is a regular just BIO-wheel fine or do I need a pump or something? It is a 29 gallon tank. I am getting a 75 gallon tall tank for free with canopy and stand coming up pretty soon but am gonna keep that in storage until my GF and I get our own place.
So the live rock is just a big coral type looking thing. Correct? It is not something that lays over the ground.
 
bradburycf

bradburycf

Member
I believe that A&M meant that since you need something on the bottom anyway, you may as well use live sand. You do not need anything on the bottom before adding the sand. A dsb provides an anaerobic area for bacteria to grow that converts your nitrate to free nitrogen. LR also provides this to some degree depending on the surface area and pourosity (word?), but LR is exceptional at providing a large surface area for aerobic bacteria to grow and convert ammonia ==> nitrite ==> nitrate. The dsb and LR are usually used together, however,depending on the amt/quality of LR, some aquarists are successful using only LR w/o a dsb. I don't know if the opposite is true or not:confused: I don't have a dsb myself. I wish I did, but I'm too lazy to remove all the cc.
 
eclipseagent

eclipseagent

Member
What are all these acroniums (sp)? I am confused. I know LR, LS, but that is about it.
And what is the MAIN difference between nitrate and nitrite.
 
bradburycf

bradburycf

Member
Sorry... cc = crushed coral; dsb = deep sand bed.
Nitrite is much more toxic to the critters than nitrate. You want to shoot for 0 ammonia and nitrite. With a dsb, plenum, or lots of LR, you can reduce your nitrates to 0 also. Mine remain around 15-20 ppm, and the tank seems to do fine with that. (I have some shrooms, LPS-large polyp stony, and SPS-small polyp stony)
 
javatech

javatech

Member
Sounds like it time to get a few books on reef tanks if you don't know what live sand or live rock is.
and take your time not two days not 4-6 weeks you need to wait till it can handle it you need a good test kit and time :) ;)
good luck
 
eclipseagent

eclipseagent

Member
So what EXACTLY is a deep sand bed? is that just a layer of sand?
in my 29 gallon tank I have 20lbs of live sand is that good or do I need more or less? I have no LR or plenum.
Would that be alright.
Should I look into getting LR.
 
bradburycf

bradburycf

Member
A dsb is usually a minimum of 4" deep. It's up to you whether or no tyou want lr. I think it makes the tank look a lot better among other things. The popular way to go seems to be lr and dsb in combination to provide the biological filtration. Then a skimmer and a water chg now and then is the extent of your maintenance. Some don't even use a skimmer. (This is slightly exaggerated. there will still be some algae/cyanobacteria removal needed, and depending on your livestock, supplements to be added) It's all up to you. I'm not home, so I can't give you my links to sites w/ good info. But I'm in agreement w/ vatech, you really need to do some more research on this stuff. I'd get a couple good books as well as find info on the net, and use this website to supplement your knowledge:cool:
 
a&m aggie 04'

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
I deep sand bed consists of sand 3-4" or higher. If you only added a 1" sand bed you would not get the biological factor of having it but only the look of it. You should be using Aragonite sand to produce this and then you can buy ACTUAL live sand from the fish store and seed the aragonite type of sand. By doing this you do not have to purchase all live sand, and eventually the Aragonite sand will become alive, giving you the Live Sand Bed!!!!!!
If you were to buy all live sand it would cost you alot of money. You can use a type of playsand called Southdown playsand which is only found at some home depots, eastern US. It is an aragonite based sand.
 
striker

striker

Member
Definitely go for the lr and ls. I tried setting up my 29gallon with just ls in it and I had to fight against tons of unwanted algae until everything eventually crashed and died. Even todays' filters can't compare to the biological filtration that lr and ls gives a tank. Besides helping with filtration the lr will provide protection and housing for the fish and inverts you will introduce in the future. I've had nothing but success with the set-up I have now and I attribute to my ls(3inch) and lr(60+lbs). Till this day I still add extra lr when I see nice pieces at the lfs but I'm pretty close to being full. Even though I have a territorial damsel in the tank he doesn't stress anyone because there are so many places to hide. This is important if you want to keep your fish alive and healthy. What type of lighting do you have? You keep talking about getting an anemone but they are pretty hard to keep alive in a newly set-up tank. It's best to wait 3-6 months until your tank gets settled before adding one. They require strong lighting and good water conditions.
 
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