live sand and crushed coral what am i doing...

[fats71]

k, so I bought a 75 gal swt set it up with a emperor 400 and a skilter 400 that hass a skimmer attached or on one side i should say. I bought the large heater which I heard not to do later to use two smaller ones ok so will do in the future. now then. I also added two seperatwe bags of crushedd coral one smaller and one larger. I then the day after addded 3 damsels and one clown. this all started on saturday of this last week. so then I figure hey I want something to put in the tank so I purchased 45-50 pounds more of live rock to go along with my two very small live rocks so that thhe fish can hide when thhe others are picking on them. I also ordered 40 pounds of live sand. It arrives tomrrow or thhe next day. from saltwaterfish.com...
I know thhe rocks do not have to be aclimated but how do i do the sand and can I put it on top of the crushed coral or should i remove it... it has not been in long enough for a lot of bacteria but i would like to prefer rather to keep it in as well will it hurt it how do I do it does the sand need to be aclimated etc ? What else do I need to add and how long ? im going fish mainly as i dont have the money for halid lights atm and its a perfect tank and top and regular bar light like the cheapies come with. I need help asap as this stuff will be here tomorrow im hoping.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2469393
k, so I bought a 75 gal swt set it up with a emperor 400 and a skilter 400 that hass a skimmer attached or on one side i should say. I bought the large heater which I heard not to do later to use two smaller ones ok so will do in the future. now then. I also added two seperatwe bags of crushedd coral one smaller and one larger. I then the day after addded 3 damsels and one clown. this all started on saturday of this last week. so then I figure hey I want something to put in the tank so I purchased 45-50 pounds more of live rock to go along with my two very small live rocks so that thhe fish can hide when thhe others are picking on them. I also ordered 40 pounds of live sand. It arrives tomrrow or thhe next day. from saltwaterfish.com...
I know thhe rocks do not have to be aclimated but how do i do the sand and can I put it on top of the crushed coral or should i remove it... it has not been in long enough for a lot of bacteria but i would like to prefer rather to keep it in as well will it hurt it how do I do it does the sand need to be aclimated etc ? What else do I need to add and how long ? im going fish mainly as i dont have the money for halid lights atm and its a perfect tank and top and regular bar light like the cheapies come with. I need help asap as this stuff will be here tomorrow im hoping.
Welcome to the boards!! Sand is a wise choice. Take the fish back to the store. Remove the cc and add the sand and rock that you have comming. Cycle the tank without fish. The rock will be enough to cycle this tank. Get those fish out of there.

 

[bessycerka]

Another option would be to section off areas of the gravel and have some sections of sandy bottom. For instance, in one of my tanks, I had all crushed coral and I didn't want to pull out the crushed coral and

[hr]
up the the tank chemistry. I used some oyster shells to make a retaining wall, put small section of an undergravel filter under the crushed coral, and made 2 sandy areas in the tank for coral that require a softer bottom. So far it looks good and has not been problematic, even with gravel washing the crushed coral areas.

 

[rad]

I like the idea of sand also. take the CC out of there. only thing is you may need another bag of sand. you dont necessarily need to get live sand as your other bag because if you already got live sand, and/or live rock, it will seed the sand over time. its just that the dry sand will need to be rinsed. but your rock will most likely not be cured. when you add it, and if it smells like rotten eggs/sulfur then it is not cured. theres die off on it and it will take a couple weeks to cure. during that time you will get extremely high levels of toxins in your tank. thats why sep is saying to take the fish back. the damsels may be able to live, may, but the clown will almost surely die. just throw the rock and sand in there and wait a month if you dont have a test kit to test the levels. if you want to be sure you get a good cycle throw in a piece of chunk shrimp for 3 or 4 days then take it out. you need the bacteria. good luck.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by bessycerka
http:///forum/post/2469405
Another option would be to section off areas of the gravel and have some sections of sandy bottom. For instance, in one of my tanks, I had all crushed coral and I didn't want to pull out the crushed coral and

[hr]
up the the tank chemistry. I used some oyster shells to make a retaining wall, put small section of an undergravel filter under the crushed coral, and made 2 sandy areas in the tank for coral that require a softer bottom. So far it looks good and has not been problematic, even with gravel washing the crushed coral areas.
How long has this tank been set up?
I see several problems with this. If the CC is not vacumed regularly then you will get a buildup of nitrates. The sand will become mixed with the cc at some point, which will make it very hard to properly clean the cc. Sand sifting inverts will have a very tough time getting through the cc. Any bottom dwelling fish will get scraped.

 

[bessycerka]

The tank has been in this state for about 3 months, and I have vacuumed the gravel at least 4 times, even vacuumed the sandy areas. I use a standard gravel wash tube, and if you're careful, the gravel doesn't get mixed in with the sand ( the shell border prevents that ) the sand, on the other hand, must be vacuumed very carefully, as it will mix into the gravel if you're not careful. I was skeptical about how it would look after a few gravel washes, but to my surprise, it really looks almost the same as it did day one. As far as bottom dwelling creatures, there are no bottom fish, just a snowflake moray, some snails, and tiny hermit crabs, and they all seem to be flourishing. I'd post a pic, but the tank is asleep now as it's 3 AM here, possibly later I'll take a photo. The contrast between the sand and the crushed coral is actually an interesting look. The LFS that I used to work at used the plastic strips that fit on the glass tank lids to make retaining walls in the freshwater tanks ( a sort of multi tier effect, and they could bend into different shapes ) we'd use different colored gravel in the different levels in those tanks, it looked very impressive. I guess that's where I got the sand / gravel idea, and probably where I learned to be a little OCD with gravelwashing.
BTW SEP, what ever happened to Johnthefishguy? He was intelligent, and a regular poster on this site, I haven't seen a post of his for quite some time, ReefkeeperZ also, what gives?

 

[fats71]

wow you all are fast. The problemm i Have is tghat they will not take thhe fish back and where i PURCHASED THEM IS approx 1 andd a half hours away. I am at ft leonard wood missouri army post and well its normally called fort lost in the woods...
So I guess cc just has to go. I like the one guys way odf ddoing them seperated but thats too much more work andd lets face it I wanna work smart not hard. Now then how do i GET THE cc out of the tank without freaking out the fish...

 

[scopus tang]

You've got a lot of work and disappointment ahead of you. Go get a fair-sized rubbermaid tube and drain your water off into the tube. Move your heater and a powerhead or two into the tub, followed by the fish. Drain the rest of your water out of your tank into 5 gallon bucks and save if possible. Remove your few pieces of LR and place in the tube. Then begin the very difficult task of removing wet cc out of your tank and discard or ship to me

Reset your tank starting with base live rock, then your LS, then finish by aquascaping with your premium live rock. Return water from buckets and tubes to your tank. and reaclimate and reintroduce your fish. Expect your tank to go through a normal cycle (will last about a month). Ammonia and nitrite levels will rise and probably kill the clown and possibly the damsels. Once they settle down (after about 30 days usually), do a 20% water change to bring nitrate levels down. You will need to invest in test kits for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at minimum in order to monitor the levels of these sustances in your tank. Do not purchase any more livestock for your aquarium until the cycle has finished - the toxic levels of these substances will simply kill them. Once the nitrate levels have settled begin slowly (only one or two fish at a time) introducing them into your system. There are a number of very good posts at the beginning of this forum on setting up a tank properly - take the time to read them (its worth it). You'll save yourself time, money and major frustration if you take the time to research and do it right the first time.

 

[fats71]

appreciate it. I actually started taking ouut the cc already with my net and putting it into a bucket... I amm almost half done shouldd I stop now and do as suggested or keep going...
I have read thhe 101 tips but as I started prior to finding this site i was mislead by many others and especially the only fish store within 100 miles of me.. They told me to add the sand over thhe cc the fish will be fine blah blah blah.. I have read many other sites as well that says they will all be ok it will be alittle shakey but everything will be alright as long as I add this stuff by tommorow..
The guy at ***** in osage beach says he is a expert and i'll be fine lol..
I swear it is killing me to get so much mis-information. I wish their was a end all be all do this this and this buy this first this second these to clean this to swim etc..
I love the beauty of the fish and the tanks when al done but man getting there is a battle. anyway i have a full test kit but I do not know what levels should be where. I have tested stuff per the directions but it does not say how to change things that are too high or even if they are too high.

 

[michaeltx]

welcome to the board!!
Please do not use abreviations for curse words I changed your title of the thread to correct the issue.
There is a lot of different ways to do things and alot of people that are in the sales feilds that only tell you part of what you need to know or dont tell you at all just to make the sale. With that being said the board here is a wanderful resource of people that arent out for your money and have your tank in their mind when giving you advice. it will help you alot in creating your tank.
again welcome to the board.
Mike

 

[fats71]

I do not curse as it means what the flip wtf.
I did not know it meant something else as stated im not a person who uses profanity. anyway thanks for the welcome and it sure does seem like a great commmunity.
I just wishh I would have found it earlier.

 

[fats71]

Well, I also wrote to the experts at swf.com and received this just now.
"live sand‏
From: Kim @ Customer Support (customerservice@saltwaterfish.com)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: Wed 2/13/08 1:19 PM
Reply-to: customerservice@saltwaterfish.com
To: hawglover@msn.com
Hello, Thank you for the email.You can put the live sand straight into the tank. It is not necessary to remove the crushed coral except for personal aesthetic reasons. You may mis the two together if you wish.Live sand does not need to be acclimated.Thanks for your e-mail, Kim @ Customer Support"
I get more and more confused by the minute...
I also received my shipment receipt saying My 45-50 pounds of LR and 40 pounds of LS were shipped yesterday now I found out the LR was not and has not been shipped yet so I guess that comes later this week or maybe next...

 

[scopus tang]

The advice that you have received isn't necessarily bad. Generally live rock and live sand can be added together to the tank at the same time. However, if they ship apart it will not hurt anything to put them in together. It also doesn't hurt anything to have cc and sand both in your tank as was stated earlier in this thread. Its a matter of personal opinion. If you are planning a fish only system rather than a reef system, you can simply mix the LS and the cc together, or pour the LS over the top of the cc (I personally prefer to place a fine mesh plastic or fiberglass screen between the two as it keeps them seperate). In a reef tank, I personally prefer the deep sand bed. If you don't want a deep sand bed, make sure you only have a couple inches total of both combined or one or the other. Again, it comes back to what you personally want ~ salt water tanks have been kept successfully with cc as the substrate for many years. Recently (yes I know I'm dating myself here) sand has become the substrate of choice, but realize that some people still keep bare bottom tanks. Its really just a matter of what you personally like and what you want to deal with. People are going to tell you what they prefer and what they personally have been successful with, thats ok, but it also doesn't mean that whats going to work for you! Because of personal successes and personal preferences, the information/advice you get can seem very confusing - you're going to have to make some of your own choices in this hobby, thats why everyone's tank looks different.

 

[fats71]

Well, I think I am goinng to keep a fine layer of cc on the bottom annd then drop the LS on top. Just enough CC to keep the rocks from sccratching the bottom of the tank and to hold some of the sand alittle firmer I think. I am not sure how it will work but right now thats the way im leaning. I am still pullin CC out of thhe tank but doing it slowely as it clouds up the tank a lot. I am not sure if I should leave the filters skiller on while doing it but I am atm as I think it should clear it up faster.
Thanks for all the help so quickly as im doing alittle then coming back and actually getting more info thanks again.

 

[fats71]

Well, it officially looks like a milk shake inn there and im not sure thats good lol.. I guess I might as well just get it all out at once but i think ill wait to hear any advive on if I should shut down the emperor skimmer and skilter prior to doing it.

 

[scopus tang]

I personally would leave all my filters running - you're probably going to have to change your prefilters if you have any, but at least you will be pulling most of the "floaties" out of your system.

 

[fats71]

thhe blue pads are pre filters arent they ??? I dunno like i said im new. I thought I would just rinse them out tbh.

 

[scopus tang]

Yep, they are prefilters, and yes you can rinse them. I've found that rinsed pads tend to not perform as well as new ones, and occassionally they begin adding ammonia to the tank, which you definetely don't wont. IMO its generally worth the money to just buy new ones once the old ones are dirty.

 

[fats71]

Well, your right I got the LS and it was alittle short of thhe weighht but I need a definite 20 pounds more if not 30 pounds.. I will be goig to thhe lfs which is about 90 miles away tonight o pick up some more and also some LR as mine from swf.com is late ( they are curing it etc and making sure it was thhe best quality but it wont be here until next weeek sometime whichh I appreciate thhe extra attention but i need it now) P.S. if you get kin on your ticket be nice she is the best I have ever dealt with honestly in a customer service dept.
So anyway new filters will be bought and hopefully thhe LR and thhen let her cycle I guess.

 

[fats71]

Ok, so I have the regular cheap light and crappy glass lids my perfecto 75 gallon came with. I have added 40 pounds of LS and goinng to get another 20 pounds today and 50 pounds of LR to add in it tonight. I have three damsels and one clown the tank is a week old ( i know the fish should be removed but thats not a option as where i bought them they have no return policy) I am curious what kind of lights should I go with and should I keep the glass lids ? do I need a powerhead ? whats a sump for andd is it needed ? I am running a skilter filter/skimer 400 and a 400 emperor bio wheel. I have a large heater which im goign to replace with two smaller ones as I read its better in case one breaks and to keep it more regulated. I need to know should I buy some invert now while its goign to cycle ? just to hel alittle or no and what should I also get tonight as I said im driving over a hour and a half to the store as its the closest one that has anything the other one is a dump. Quick responses would be great as im leavinng in a couple hours.
I thank you in advance