Live sand question(s)....
- Thread starter sprieto
- Start date
prh123
Member
Nice tank, its all in one, lighting, mechanical, skimmer, heater, and chiller designed to fit together. I use the Berlin method which is bare bottom, live rock is the biological filter, and you rely on heavy skimming. Over time you get delusions that you know everything and you will question some of the components. If everything is just about perfect you will never notice the differences. Perhaps you are better off than the experts.
I would look for a recommendation from the creator of the tank, they designed it, has to be several master’s degrees in marine biology behind it.
I would look for a recommendation from the creator of the tank, they designed it, has to be several master’s degrees in marine biology behind it.
nano-newb1983
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprieto http:///forum/thread/387045/live-sand-question-s#post_3402622
I am setting up a 29 gallon Biocube (20"x20").
How deep of a sand bed, 1 to 2 inch or 4 to 5 inch?
All live sand ok, or do I need a 1/2 and 1/2 sand bed (w/live sand on top)?
Will live sand w/ live rock alone start the cycle process?
Opinions would be great!
Thanks...
hi there
I would have at least 3inches of sand
I would just get some dry/dead sand to save lil cash and maybe see if u can get a small cup of LIVE from LFS or local reefer to seed the tank
Also a lil tip, if u wanna get the cycle rolling faster get a raw uncook shrimp in there and that will get the ball rollin
Originally Posted by sprieto http:///forum/thread/387045/live-sand-question-s#post_3402622
I am setting up a 29 gallon Biocube (20"x20").
How deep of a sand bed, 1 to 2 inch or 4 to 5 inch?
All live sand ok, or do I need a 1/2 and 1/2 sand bed (w/live sand on top)?
Will live sand w/ live rock alone start the cycle process?
Opinions would be great!
Thanks...
hi there
I would have at least 3inches of sand
I would just get some dry/dead sand to save lil cash and maybe see if u can get a small cup of LIVE from LFS or local reefer to seed the tank
Also a lil tip, if u wanna get the cycle rolling faster get a raw uncook shrimp in there and that will get the ball rollin
sprieto
Member
Can you post a pic of your tank (bare bottom). I just don't think I would like the way that looks, though I know it must make cleaning your tank a breeze.
I keep reading either a shallow Sand bed or a deep sand bed (nothing in between), or bare bottom. I keep going back and forth on what I am going to do.
I also don't know if I want to run live rock in the back or just in the main tank display. I read live rock in the back could have the same issues as the Bioballs....
I kind of liked the idea of the back sump area being open and empty with lots of water flow only housing the Protein Skimmer, heater, and maybe some filter floss, with Purigen and ChemiPureElite.
I will keep doing research before I decide which way to go.
Any other imput anybody?!?
Thanks again!
I keep reading either a shallow Sand bed or a deep sand bed (nothing in between), or bare bottom. I keep going back and forth on what I am going to do.
I also don't know if I want to run live rock in the back or just in the main tank display. I read live rock in the back could have the same issues as the Bioballs....
I kind of liked the idea of the back sump area being open and empty with lots of water flow only housing the Protein Skimmer, heater, and maybe some filter floss, with Purigen and ChemiPureElite.
I will keep doing research before I decide which way to go.
Any other imput anybody?!?
Thanks again!
saltwaterdud3
Member
Eh, go shallow sand bed. Save money and buy some dry sand. 1 1/2" to 2" is best. Barebottom tanks end up being more trouble then they are worth to a novice. For one, you have to have a lot of water flow and second, you have to use a combination of heavy protein skimming and a refugium to absorb excess nutrients. It also doesn't look natural. What's on the ocean floor? Sand. Not glass. So, it depends on the look that you prefer.
After all my years of being in saltwater, I choose a 2" sandbed in the main display tank and then if possible, I would run a really deep sand bed in a refugium or trashcan. But that's just me.
There's tons of different ways to do the same thing. It just depends on what you like and want.
After all my years of being in saltwater, I choose a 2" sandbed in the main display tank and then if possible, I would run a really deep sand bed in a refugium or trashcan. But that's just me.
There's tons of different ways to do the same thing. It just depends on what you like and want.
prh123
Member
I have met some store owners that use sand bottom tanks in one application, and not on another, I was just mentioning there are two methods, Berlin is bare bottom, high flow, heavy skimming, live rock is the biological filter.
In many cases it seems to be about the design of your flow, if that matters read the link I posted below, well written article on what they state is the best conditions for corals.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2167&aid=2662
In many cases it seems to be about the design of your flow, if that matters read the link I posted below, well written article on what they state is the best conditions for corals.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2167&aid=2662
btldreef
Moderator
Don't go bare bottom in a BioCube, the reflection is terrible. I tried having mine bare while I was using it as a frag tank and the bottom is just too reflective. You can't really get really heavy flow in that tank with the way it's designed either. 1-3" sand bed is the way to go with these systems.
Yes, if you use cured live rock and actually live sand (not the bagged garbage that claims to be live sand), your initial cycle will be significantly shorter and doesn't require the raw shrimp method.
Yes, if you use cured live rock and actually live sand (not the bagged garbage that claims to be live sand), your initial cycle will be significantly shorter and doesn't require the raw shrimp method.
prh123
Member
Here’s a different opinion, I found the only good use for purple up was it covered the bare bottom tank with calcium, which I then feed Coralline Gro from Red Sea, the bottom, turned red and green with coralline today in less than eight hours, 20000K and Actinic 03. When the lights went on the turbo snail and his friend the hermit crab cleaned the entire bottom, and the live rock. The live rock stays purple, pink, and lime green, the layer on the bottom is very thin they clean until it looks white (probably calcium).
The reality, I don't even like the red and green coraline, can't get purple and pink to grow anywhere but the live rock.
I like that Bio Cube, all in one, "nice", try different things before you spend hundreds on the inhabitants. The package basically helps you not learn everything the hard way case by case. It's smart, very smart.
The reality, I don't even like the red and green coraline, can't get purple and pink to grow anywhere but the live rock.
I like that Bio Cube, all in one, "nice", try different things before you spend hundreds on the inhabitants. The package basically helps you not learn everything the hard way case by case. It's smart, very smart.
prh123
Member
The only reason I tried multiple laminar flows, disrupted by surges, which they call "turbulence" is because my tank was over heating, I suspended lights (T8) that was not the problem. So I found out the power heads when run constantly increase the heat in your tank by several degrees. In my case, it went over 86. So you are looking at reducing the pumps, or buying a chiller. What I found to be true is on a wave maker between 20 second to three minute intervals its goes from 78 to 82; I turn the A/C off at night because I don't like to sleep with it on. If room is 74 to 76 degree’s I’m good.
So basically flow “sucks” in all tanks, it took months to design surges and turbulence:
½ circle ten gallon mini reef:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
Wave maker outlets 1 and 2 alternate
[*]
2[sup]nd[/sup] cycle outlet 3 goes on for twice as long
[*]
Two spray bars on ½ PVC with a 402 power head on each end (480 GPH on PVC) 1/4 wholes every inch (spray bars are in outlets one and three) less frequent bottom flow because nothing liked laminar flow constant on bottom.
480 GPH bottom back, still, 480 GPH bottom back, 480 GPH middle up over lapping 480 GPH bottom back creating 960 GPH (two directions: bottom flow and surface agitation, repeat)
Then I re-read article on flow so 480, still, 960GPH on two spray bars are disrupted by left and right surface on outlets 1 and 2 same wave maker (maxi jet small power heads 106 GPH)
[/list type=decimal]
The mushroom coral live rock is position between bottom and top flow, and left and right, took months to not blow the mushrooms off the life rock, not scare the fish, let the fish sleep (plugged wave maker into light timer), still get heavy flow to grow coralline fast (hours), mushrooms open up, and tank is very, very clean.
So basically flow “sucks” in all tanks, it took months to design surges and turbulence:
½ circle ten gallon mini reef:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
Wave maker outlets 1 and 2 alternate
[*]
2[sup]nd[/sup] cycle outlet 3 goes on for twice as long
[*]
Two spray bars on ½ PVC with a 402 power head on each end (480 GPH on PVC) 1/4 wholes every inch (spray bars are in outlets one and three) less frequent bottom flow because nothing liked laminar flow constant on bottom.
480 GPH bottom back, still, 480 GPH bottom back, 480 GPH middle up over lapping 480 GPH bottom back creating 960 GPH (two directions: bottom flow and surface agitation, repeat)
Then I re-read article on flow so 480, still, 960GPH on two spray bars are disrupted by left and right surface on outlets 1 and 2 same wave maker (maxi jet small power heads 106 GPH)
[/list type=decimal]
The mushroom coral live rock is position between bottom and top flow, and left and right, took months to not blow the mushrooms off the life rock, not scare the fish, let the fish sleep (plugged wave maker into light timer), still get heavy flow to grow coralline fast (hours), mushrooms open up, and tank is very, very clean.
sprieto
Member
Thanks everyone. I am going to do a shallow live sand bed with plenty good quality live rock. 10% weekly water changes, protein skimmer, and I plan on just a few fish and some easy coral (mushrooms, etc). Thanks again everyone. I feel like my brain is going to explode from all the research...
I use to only run FOWLR, with success, but it's crazy how much you think you know, but you don't....
Any more suggestions and opinions will always be appreciated and considered..
Thanks!
I use to only run FOWLR, with success, but it's crazy how much you think you know, but you don't....
Any more suggestions and opinions will always be appreciated and considered..
Thanks!
prh123
Member
That’s basically what I did; I was just playing games with chemistry, flow, and lighting to see how fast you can grow coralline algae. Two people told me 3 months, I got it down to eight hours. The easy corals like mushrooms have been dividing and creating new ones once they get to like a ½ dollar size. I like the small tanks, you can try different things and not spend hundreds of dollars on each move.
travelerjp98
Active Member
I would do a deep sand bed, and all live sand is ok.
I personally don't think that ls and lr will start the cycle alone. i would, as nano web stated, ad some raw shrimp- it couldn't hurt.
I personally don't think that ls and lr will start the cycle alone. i would, as nano web stated, ad some raw shrimp- it couldn't hurt.
spanko
Active Member
Here is how I have done my 29 bio cube. Just some suggestions for you.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/332430/spanko-s-bio-cube-what-in-posiden-s-name-is-he-up-to-now
Also on the cycling issue.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/386044/let-s-talk-about-cycling
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/332430/spanko-s-bio-cube-what-in-posiden-s-name-is-he-up-to-now
Also on the cycling issue.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/386044/let-s-talk-about-cycling
kiefers
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelerjp98 http:///forum/thread/387045/live-sand-question-s#post_3404700
I would do a deep sand bed, and all live sand is ok.
I personally don't think that ls and lr will start the cycle alone. i would, as nano web stated, ad some raw shrimp- it couldn't hurt.
L/S and or LR will help the cycle along, but not alone. drowned a raw shrimp in the tank for 3-4 days or until you get an ammonia spike. Then leave it ALONE.
Originally Posted by travelerjp98 http:///forum/thread/387045/live-sand-question-s#post_3404700
I would do a deep sand bed, and all live sand is ok.
I personally don't think that ls and lr will start the cycle alone. i would, as nano web stated, ad some raw shrimp- it couldn't hurt.
L/S and or LR will help the cycle along, but not alone. drowned a raw shrimp in the tank for 3-4 days or until you get an ammonia spike. Then leave it ALONE.
travelerjp98
Active Member
exactly as I said...
I'm not directing anything towards you, kiefers, sorry if it sound like that...
I'm not directing anything towards you, kiefers, sorry if it sound like that...
travelerjp98
Active Member
thanks for understanding! I never want to be mean or rude or anything!
kiefers
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelerjp98 http:///forum/thread/387045/live-sand-question-s#post_3404737
thank you!
I just read the whole thread..... I thought you started the thread, I shoulda known better to just jump in and start babbling.
Originally Posted by travelerjp98 http:///forum/thread/387045/live-sand-question-s#post_3404737
thank you!
I just read the whole thread..... I thought you started the thread, I shoulda known better to just jump in and start babbling.