Live Sand -vs- Crushed Coral

[bwonder]

Thanks everyone for you input.

I'm really just happy to learn that I don't have to scrap what I've done and start over. Now, I'm going to look into getting my live rock. I want to get it all one time so I only have one ammonia spike.

I'll keep you guys posted and post pics.

 

[stanlalee]

well I dont know all the technobabble but I do know I have used nothing but crushed coral and have never had a nitrate or detritus problem. In fact my nitrates are never more than 5ppm. That said I've always dismissed crushed coral as the reason for high nitrates. Even before I started vacuuming, used distilled grocery store water, had a skilter 250 skimmer, had about 4 crustasceans total as a clean up crew and an underground filter I was still able to keep nitrates between 10-40ppm with water changes no better than every 3 weeks. I still wish I had sand just because certain live stock prefer it. I need a better reason though before I actually change it.
I only have one deep section of CC to mount the christmas tree coral otherwise my substrate depth is VERY shallow.

 

[bubles]

Bwonder I never had any problems with my CC and is always been so clean my diamond and my star love it get a good clean up crew

 

[bwonder]

Stanlalee - that's a really nice tank!

Bubles - Glad to hear another person has been having success with CC.
Thanks for sharing the pics.

 

[1journeyman]

A couple of quick points here:
DSB, if well maintained, will not "crash" even with disturbances... my 2 engineer gobies are testimony to that.
Sand is not disturbed by water movement. I've got 36x turnover in my 210. My sand stays where it is...
CC is tough on clean up crews. Many cannot survive on the sharp surfaces it creates.
CC collects more detritus than sand as CC has uneven surfaces that can grab it.
Sand beds are a better buffer for your water (maintaining pH and adding calcium and other trace elements)
The ocean floor is sand. You can raise a LOT more critters in a sandy bottom.

 

[yimmy]

I got CC...I put in half an inch and I just move it around every now and then. I have a 90gal tank with about 60 hermits and burrowing snails. Mine stays clean. CC IMO is better for FO set up. With mine I can actually gravel vacum it (even though) it's a fine grade because it is heavy...I also do have to pinch the hose so it's not to strong of a suction. You didn't make a bad choice, it could only be a bad choice if you don't have the proper clean up crew and you don't move it around. It's good to swirl it because the top of my CC you could eat off of but under it you couldn't, so when I have my hands wet I also swish it around so bottom on top and top on bottom. Just my 2 cents.
Jimmy

 

[thomas712]

Another argument is that CC increases your nitrates. False:
No disrespect Sly.
The only thing I want to argue here is the statement above. Not that I do not respect those opinions that agree with it, but I can't. For those who have no problems with it more power to you.
However, I just can not agree that CC will not trap waste and detritus below the surface of the CC. After that happens it has no place to go and does decompose and cause nitrates, because it is trapped down there and until the vac comes along to get it out of there, it stays there. I would agree with proper maintenance that it can be controlled, however so many folks are lazy and the percentages usually show that CC will bite the system in the rear more sooner than later.
My own experience tells me just how bad CC is, but in my case it was about 2.5 inches or more of crushed coral and I was doing massive 50% or more water changes to help control nitrates.
I will agree that if using CC then keeping it shallow is critical.
Not that I have statistics, but I have been involved with so many threads where the poster was so very much happier with a switch from CC to Sandbed be it shallow or deep. Personally I prefer a SSB(shallow sand bed) in the main tank and a DSB(deep sand bed) in the fuge.
Sand in my opinion simply has more benefits to it, over crushed coral.
Thomas

 

[stanlalee]

my only problem with people who switch from CC to sand are they do a complete substrate change and most of their water and boast about how much lower their nitrates are. That would be the case regardless even if you switched from CC to new CC. then if you had a nitrate problem and fixed it generally speaking you are going to work harder than you did before to keep it low. Keep up the same routine you had before and wait 6 months to see if it comes back before you claim sand fixed your nitrate problem and CC is the devil. CC may trap more detritus than sand, may be harder on certain livestock and require more maintainence but a large part of CC stigma is simply WAY over exaggerated. Besides suction vacuuming during water changes there isn't really anything particularly needed to maintain CC. you have people who swear CC is the devil and at the same time think treated tap water is okay to use and 8 puffers in a 75 gallon is fine.

 

[trainfever]

I'm not going to get into any arguments into which is better but I will ask you one question: Have you ever seen or heard of any beaches that are full of crushed coral? :notsure:

 

[jeepman3sk]

can you switch part of the tank over from CC to sand or should you do it all at once.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by trainfever
I'm not going to get into any arguments into which is better but I will ask you one question: Have you ever seen or heard of any beaches that are full of crushed coral? :notsure:
Well, I see where you are going, but actually there are plenty of beaches made of CC. Bonaire comes to mind... airlines lost my dive suitcase and I had to use rented fins with no boots... still have scars on the bottom of my feet to attest to how sharp the worthless junk is...

 

[1journeyman]

Another benefit being overlooked is the bio-diversity that sand offers over CC. Many tiny critters can live in your sand and help keep your sand bed clean. Those critters can't live in cc.

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by trainfever
I'm not going to get into any arguments into which is better but I will ask you one question: Have you ever seen or heard of any beaches that are full of crushed coral? :notsure:

you should check areas of the beach that arent for public enjoyment.

 

[happyvac]

I don't mean to hihack this thread, but since it's about LS, will the bagged stuff eventually be seeded by my LR?

 

[oreo12]

Ok I have crushed in my 29 and sand in my 75. I would never go sand again. Has runt at leats 3 power heads and 2 power filters. My big goby wont quite moving it and clouding up the tank.As far as nothing living in the crushed I have all types of small star fish in it and sevreal bristial worms and many pods so yes critters do live in the crushed. Also when you do water changes you can vacume it and clean it out some try that with the sand right out the suction tube. If I where to redo the 75 I would throw the sand in a hole out in the yard and and replace it with crushed coral.

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by trainfever
I'm not going to get into any arguments into which is better but I will ask you one question: Have you ever seen or heard of any beaches that are full of crushed coral? :notsure:
Yes... Hawaii. Hamauma Bay is lined with very course sand and coral. It is also one of the prettiest reefs I have ever seen.

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Another benefit being overlooked is the bio-diversity that sand offers over CC. Many tiny critters can live in your sand and help keep your sand bed clean. Those critters can't live in cc.
The critters you speak of are nitrobacter bacteria. If they don't live in sand, then they will live in your living rock. IMO having nitrobacter in your living rock is better because it can't crash like it could if it was in your sand. Other than that, what critters are you talking about? I have a full cleanup crew of snails, various crabs, shrimp, wrasses.... They all do fine with CC. I even had a full range of "pods" until my gobi ate them all up.

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by HappyVac
I don't mean to hihack this thread, but since it's about LS, will the bagged stuff eventually be seeded by my LR?
It will seed some bacteria but IMO you would be better off seeding it with at least one bag of living sand or living crushed coral.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Sly
The critters you speak of are nitrobacter bacteria. If they don't live in sand, then they will live in your living rock. IMO having nitrobacter in your living rock is better because it can't crash like it could if it was in your sand. Other than that, what critters are you talking about? I have a full cleanup crew of snails, various crabs, shrimp, wrasses.... They all do fine with CC. I even had a full range of "pods" until my gobi ate them all up.
No, no no... I don't consider bacteria "critters". Worms, snails, tiny stars, clams, etc. are critters. CC has sharp edges that injure/kill them. Sand provides a much better habitat and therefore a more productive one.
Second, Your live rock is going to grow bacteria whether or not you have sand. It's not an either/or.
Third, the "sand bed crashing" fear is dramatically over stated. Fenner and Calfo state that this fear probably occured when people first began trying to maintain DSB's incorrectly (using eggcrate to create dead space, improper water flow, wrong depth, etc.)
Sand is easier to keep clean (brisk water flow across it keeps materials in suspension), grows more inhabitants, is more natural, and buffers water better.

 

[27mtaylor]

Originally Posted by Sly
Yes... Hawaii. Hamauma Bay is lined with very course sand and coral. It is also one of the prettiest reefs I have ever seen.
Oooooo.... I have snorkled there! It was awesome! They told us that most of the "sand" there comes from parrot fish crushing the corals.