LOL, TO MUCH INFO, and its all different
- Thread starter jeff10
- Start date
florida joe
Well-Known Member
well its seems i can not longer put things in quotes (SWF upgrade) Flower posted
"So are we to conclude that you believe live rock is not necessary", That's correct for filtration it is not necessary Flower posted " that it really has very little use as a natural filter"? I never said that
IbanEz posted" Personally I feel that if I didn't have live rock, I couldn't keep as many fish both for lack of area for good bacteria to colonize" we have multiple areas for colonization in our tanks IMO live rock is not the most prolific. the hobbyist can in fact have to much rock. Rock displaces water and to much displacement diminishes our margin for error
"So are we to conclude that you believe live rock is not necessary", That's correct for filtration it is not necessary Flower posted " that it really has very little use as a natural filter"? I never said that
IbanEz posted" Personally I feel that if I didn't have live rock, I couldn't keep as many fish both for lack of area for good bacteria to colonize" we have multiple areas for colonization in our tanks IMO live rock is not the most prolific. the hobbyist can in fact have to much rock. Rock displaces water and to much displacement diminishes our margin for error
flower
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3260868
well its seems i can not longer put things in quotes (SWF upgrade) Flower posted
"So are we to conclude that you believe live rock is not necessary", That's correct for filtration it is not necessary Flower posted " that it really has very little use as a natural filter"? I never said that
IbanEz posted" Personally I feel that if I didn't have live rock, I couldn't keep as many fish both for lack of area for good bacteria to colonize" we have multiple areas for colonization in our tanks IMO live rock is not the most prolific. the hobbyist can in fact have to much rock. Rock displaces water and to much displacement diminishes our margin for error
So live rock is needed but don't over do it. Am I correct? Because OP needs to know.
http:///forum/post/3260868
well its seems i can not longer put things in quotes (SWF upgrade) Flower posted
"So are we to conclude that you believe live rock is not necessary", That's correct for filtration it is not necessary Flower posted " that it really has very little use as a natural filter"? I never said that
IbanEz posted" Personally I feel that if I didn't have live rock, I couldn't keep as many fish both for lack of area for good bacteria to colonize" we have multiple areas for colonization in our tanks IMO live rock is not the most prolific. the hobbyist can in fact have to much rock. Rock displaces water and to much displacement diminishes our margin for error
So live rock is needed but don't over do it. Am I correct? Because OP needs to know.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3260874
So live rock is needed but don't over do it. Am I correct? Because OP needs to know.
Yes my dear flower you are correct
http:///forum/post/3260874
So live rock is needed but don't over do it. Am I correct? Because OP needs to know.
Yes my dear flower you are correct
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Hopefully this will confuse you some more.
naaaaaa
To me the single most important thing is to first get the plant life thriving and then do the rest. that way the plant life maintaines the tank.
With saltwater that means various algaes because there are few true plants and none are very fast growing.
So what I do is start a tank with macro algaes which look (kinda) like plants. In a protected area called a refugium so the fish and cleaner crews will not eat them.
then do the rest.
To me that idea simply trumps all else.
But that just me
and my .02
naaaaaa
To me the single most important thing is to first get the plant life thriving and then do the rest. that way the plant life maintaines the tank.
With saltwater that means various algaes because there are few true plants and none are very fast growing.
So what I do is start a tank with macro algaes which look (kinda) like plants. In a protected area called a refugium so the fish and cleaner crews will not eat them.
then do the rest.
To me that idea simply trumps all else.
But that just me
and my .02
J
jstdv8
Guest
The answer to the original posters question seems to be...... There are many right ways of making a succesfull tank.
Personally I have 1.5 lbs of LR per gallon, strong flow, a shallow sandbed, no mechanical filtration (with an actual filter) I'm currently using a skimmer but that will be going away once my algae turf scrubber (only 4 days old) is established.
Im no expert, just wanted to chime in with my setup
Personally I have 1.5 lbs of LR per gallon, strong flow, a shallow sandbed, no mechanical filtration (with an actual filter) I'm currently using a skimmer but that will be going away once my algae turf scrubber (only 4 days old) is established.
Im no expert, just wanted to chime in with my setup
jeff10
Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3260917
The answer to the original posters question seems to be...... There are many right ways of making a succesfull tank.
Personally I have 1.5 lbs of LR per gallon, strong flow, a shallow sandbed, no mechanical filtration (with an actual filter) I'm currently using a skimmer but that will be going away once my algae turf scrubber (only 4 days old) is established.
Im no expert, just wanted to chime in with my setup
Thanks for chiming in Everyone is welcome to give their opinion when it comes to me and learning as best I can and the most that I can Since I am going Fish Only I am not going big on Live rock. I got a 2 inch sand bed of live sand and I will place probably 3 live rocks in strategic places along with my "Ancient ruins" decorations even though a few friends of mine who have tanks do not have LR and one guy has 16 tanks in one room. He has live rock for Reef tanks but not for FO tanks
http:///forum/post/3260917
The answer to the original posters question seems to be...... There are many right ways of making a succesfull tank.
Personally I have 1.5 lbs of LR per gallon, strong flow, a shallow sandbed, no mechanical filtration (with an actual filter) I'm currently using a skimmer but that will be going away once my algae turf scrubber (only 4 days old) is established.
Im no expert, just wanted to chime in with my setup
Thanks for chiming in
Everyone is welcome to give their opinion when it comes to me and learning as best I can and the most that I can Since I am going Fish Only I am not going big on Live rock. I got a 2 inch sand bed of live sand and I will place probably 3 live rocks in strategic places along with my "Ancient ruins" decorations even though a few friends of mine who have tanks do not have LR and one guy has 16 tanks in one room. He has live rock for Reef tanks but not for FO tanks
florida joe
Well-Known Member
I'm currently using a skimmer but that will be going away once my algae turf scrubber (only 4 days old) is established.
Dont want to hijack, but i have researched algae scrubbers and would love to see some pics of your setup
Dont want to hijack, but i have researched algae scrubbers and would love to see some pics of your setup
J
jstdv8
Guest
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3261153
Dont want to hijack, but i have researched algae scrubbers and would love to see some pics of your setup
It's really basic but a clean build. I broke my camera, but I'll snap some pics with my phone to post.
http:///forum/post/3261153
Dont want to hijack, but i have researched algae scrubbers and would love to see some pics of your setup
It's really basic but a clean build. I broke my camera, but I'll snap some pics with my phone to post.
handbanana
Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3261153
Dont want to hijack, but i have researched algae scrubbers and would love to see some pics of your setup
Me too. I want to build one. I started my reasearch in the DIY. SantaMonica posted some cools stuff.
http:///forum/post/3261153
Dont want to hijack, but i have researched algae scrubbers and would love to see some pics of your setup
Me too. I want to build one. I started my reasearch in the DIY. SantaMonica posted some cools stuff.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3261217
It's really basic but a clean build. I broke my camera, but I'll snap some pics with my phone to post.
good I am interested in how you set up your alage screen for removal and harvisting
http:///forum/post/3261217
It's really basic but a clean build. I broke my camera, but I'll snap some pics with my phone to post.
good I am interested in how you set up your alage screen for removal and harvisting
J
jstdv8
Guest
Joe, sorry for the delay, but I lost my camera borrowed the old man's for the night.
So heres my basic scrubber setup.
The whole thing is made out of 3/4" PVC with no glue at any of the joints. So when I do the screen cleaning I just take the tube that holds the screen out of the two elbows and bring it to the sink and scrub one side at a time. I just cleaned the side shown yesterday.
Three things I'll be changing soon.
1.) I'd like to have a longer hose going to the pump because right now the barbed connector that goes to the PVC is touching the barbed connector on the pump and I don't have any hose clamps or anything on it and it has came off twice since Ive set it up.
2.) I'm going to reduce the length of the slot bu 1.5" and actually have little tabs that will be the same length as the screen is curretly so I can attach the screen on the tabs with the zip ties and the water won't actually touch them. as it is right now after the the buildup starts happening I get a bit of spray at the zip ties.
3.) I also need to add spray/light shields so that the algae cant grow into the slot and reduce flow or cause spray. my turf isnt that thick yet so I don't have much problem, but I can see where it will be an issue soon.
I recorded the nitrates and phosphates the day i got it going an nitrates were at 40 and phosphates were at .5 which was the same since the week after my cycle. I tested last week and was very surprised to find that both were at 0. I credit alot of this to the fact that I still have a fair amount of hair algae in the DT so I'm sure they are soaking up alot of it because I havnt grown alot of algae on the screen yet. I have noticed that the hair algae is getting weak though, its coming off the rocks easier all the time. I'm slowly winning the war
borrowed the old man's for the night.So heres my basic scrubber setup.
The whole thing is made out of 3/4" PVC with no glue at any of the joints. So when I do the screen cleaning I just take the tube that holds the screen out of the two elbows and bring it to the sink and scrub one side at a time. I just cleaned the side shown yesterday.
Three things I'll be changing soon.
1.) I'd like to have a longer hose going to the pump because right now the barbed connector that goes to the PVC is touching the barbed connector on the pump and I don't have any hose clamps or anything on it and it has came off twice since Ive set it up.
2.) I'm going to reduce the length of the slot bu 1.5" and actually have little tabs that will be the same length as the screen is curretly so I can attach the screen on the tabs with the zip ties and the water won't actually touch them. as it is right now after the the buildup starts happening I get a bit of spray at the zip ties.
3.) I also need to add spray/light shields so that the algae cant grow into the slot and reduce flow or cause spray. my turf isnt that thick yet so I don't have much problem, but I can see where it will be an issue soon.
I recorded the nitrates and phosphates the day i got it going an nitrates were at 40 and phosphates were at .5 which was the same since the week after my cycle. I tested last week and was very surprised to find that both were at 0. I credit alot of this to the fact that I still have a fair amount of hair algae in the DT so I'm sure they are soaking up alot of it because I havnt grown alot of algae on the screen yet. I have noticed that the hair algae is getting weak though, its coming off the rocks easier all the time. I'm slowly winning the war
acrylic51
Active Member
Nice setup jstdv8!!!!!! I agree that LR is somewhat important but nit as important as some might believe. There was a comment made early on in the thread about junk and garbage falling on the LR and what not. Once the LR is clogged it looses it's filtering capability rendering it useless somewhat. So without proper maintenance to your LR it won't help with filtering anyways. Will try to elaborate more when I get off work.
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by IbanEz
http:///forum/post/3260378
What is the best form of filtration? I view liverock as that because it has tons of surface area for bacteria which doesn't accumulate as much garbage as a mechanical filter, it is closer to the fish so the waste stays in the water column for a shorter period of time before being converted. If you mechanical filter should stop or fail, it is the bacteria on the rock that keeps your tank from spiking ammonia. But in your opinion, what is the best form of filtration?
The statement or sentence about LR not collecting junk is untrue..... It does and without maintenance it looses it's ability to filter. Just as sand beds do..... A SSB of 1" will provide your nitrification and denitrification process although many would dispute although I have provided sound proof and facts and references to support the statement. Also the comment about equipment failure and water flow is incorrect. As with bioballs and such as long as both LR and bioballs ate kept moist their bacteria isn't destroyed or lost.
http:///forum/post/3260378
What is the best form of filtration? I view liverock as that because it has tons of surface area for bacteria which doesn't accumulate as much garbage as a mechanical filter, it is closer to the fish so the waste stays in the water column for a shorter period of time before being converted. If you mechanical filter should stop or fail, it is the bacteria on the rock that keeps your tank from spiking ammonia. But in your opinion, what is the best form of filtration?
The statement or sentence about LR not collecting junk is untrue..... It does and without maintenance it looses it's ability to filter. Just as sand beds do..... A SSB of 1" will provide your nitrification and denitrification process although many would dispute although I have provided sound proof and facts and references to support the statement. Also the comment about equipment failure and water flow is incorrect. As with bioballs and such as long as both LR and bioballs ate kept moist their bacteria isn't destroyed or lost.
acrylic51
Active Member
To touch upon what FloridaJoe stated about LR we don't need tons......If we all take notice to some of the super nice tanks out there running you'll see in that most aren't running tons of LR and are going just the opposite direction. So in reality the theory of needing LR isn't true and fish load has no bearing on that what so ever. I do feel that a multitude of filtration methods are needed to run a good, healthy tank. Those components being; LR, some sort of mechanical filtration and LR isn't mechanical filtration, (filter socks, bioballs, skimmer, etc.....) and your macros as well. All play an important part in the process, but to say that LR is needed would be totally incorrect.
Even the theory or belief that all tanks need to have a SSB or DSB is incorrect. Again many tanks have been run successful for years without it, but again we must all look back and see again that they are incorporating a couple different means of filtration in their system, and even if we look at the process in the wild we will see that LR isn't the sole means of mechanical filtration. Why when the water hits the beach does it foam?
Even the theory or belief that all tanks need to have a SSB or DSB is incorrect. Again many tanks have been run successful for years without it, but again we must all look back and see again that they are incorporating a couple different means of filtration in their system, and even if we look at the process in the wild we will see that LR isn't the sole means of mechanical filtration. Why when the water hits the beach does it foam?
king_neptune
Active Member
you dont NEEEED live rock. But it is a great idea, a really great great Idea.
Foam will also act the same as LR(I personally think better, but thats my opinion).
heck...a few bricks or cinder blocks in the tank can become Live rock given enough time.
Having Live rock is popular, and for good reason.
I dont have LR in my quarentine tank, My last group stayed in my QT for 10 weeks w/out rock or sand.
yes you need a heater. your room may be 76, but the tank will drop lower than that. fish only are fine in 74 degree water, but keeping it stable is very important. if you got a 40g tank, then you really only need a pair of 75w heaters at minimum. Ideally a pair of 100-150's since 3w per gallon is good rule of thimb. Since you live in texas, your weather will allow for slightly less that rule of thumb. and such a small tank size will realy impact how efficent your heaters are.
as for current, for now if your on a tight buget i suppose you can skip this.
But honestly how bad is it to get a cheap little something? fish do like to swim in a current, its like gym time.
Truth is its better to wait till you can afford to do it right, starting sloppy is not a good start
Foam will also act the same as LR(I personally think better, but thats my opinion).
heck...a few bricks or cinder blocks in the tank can become Live rock given enough time.
Having Live rock is popular, and for good reason.
I dont have LR in my quarentine tank, My last group stayed in my QT for 10 weeks w/out rock or sand.
yes you need a heater. your room may be 76, but the tank will drop lower than that. fish only are fine in 74 degree water, but keeping it stable is very important. if you got a 40g tank, then you really only need a pair of 75w heaters at minimum. Ideally a pair of 100-150's since 3w per gallon is good rule of thimb. Since you live in texas, your weather will allow for slightly less that rule of thumb. and such a small tank size will realy impact how efficent your heaters are.
as for current, for now if your on a tight buget i suppose you can skip this.
But honestly how bad is it to get a cheap little something? fish do like to swim in a current, its like gym time.
Truth is its better to wait till you can afford to do it right, starting sloppy is not a good start
spanko
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jeff10
http:///forum/post/3260367
So Ive read the forums, Ive talked to multiple LFS, talked to people I know who have Salt Aquariums and man...LOL, everything contradicts everyone lol
Since I am into Fish and am not into Corals, Inverts etc... I have been told I do not need Live rock or live sand. Wont hurt to have a Live rock in there but I got an Emperor 400 on my 40 Gal. tank, do not worry about it.?.?.?.?.?.
Correct you can run a fish only tank with no live rock.I was told it would just help my aquarium get set up faster??? Could be true but depends on a lot of factors. Either way you don't want to "hurry" along setting up a marine system.but since I am not into the reefs, I do not need them...??Again you do not need live rock to setup a fish only system
Since I live in South Texas (Spring which is 30 miles north of Houston) and the house is always around 72-76 degrees You do not really need a heater?.?.?.?. I am probably getting a heater though
Stability is what you are striving for in your setup and a good heater will help to maintain stable temperature, does not add much expense to the system at all so is a good piece of equipment to have.
Since I am not getting any corals etc...And that Emperor 400 is a great Filter, no need to worry about an extra current?.?.?.?.?.?.
Soooooooo, I am going to compile every answer I can get and continue to be a sponge and ask here and thank you in advance for your answers
Originally Posted by Jeff10
http:///forum/post/3260431
Hehe, thanks you all, and on Protein Skimmers, I was told it is not needed as much as a good filter because a Protein Skimmer also sucks down the "GOOD" stuff you need as well as the negative?.?.?.?.? A protein skimmer will be invaluable in a fish only system as a method to remove dissolved proteins from the water column prior to them breaking down and becoming fodder for the biological filtration. Hehe, you see, I am more twisted up than a pretzel with all of this, but I will figure it out
All of that said, live rock supplies the following important things to even a fish only tank;
1. The varied ways the living flora and fauna help to modify water quality.
2. Live rock has a mix of flora and fauna which are the sorts of organisms that your fishes and non-fishes eat in the wild. The inhabitants of your aquarium are foragers that are searching the rock and bottom in the ocean for food stuffs and therefore in your tank provide a more natural environment for them.
3. LR provides caves, crannies and space to hide behind that are necessary elements of the environment of wild creatures. These areas help to reduce stress in the animals.
I am first off very appreciative that you have chosen to come on and ask questions about your setup prior to getting it going. I would caution you to learn as much as you can from as many sources as you can to develop an understanding about what will best serve you and you particular needs. I think that your ideas about using little live rock, some substrate,a good filter and skimmer will definitely end up a fine system to house your fish. Water changes, filter maintenance and flow in the tank will be of the main concerns for you to deal with here IMO. Please keep asking questions and start to post up some pictures as you progress for us to follow along with.
http:///forum/post/3260367
So Ive read the forums, Ive talked to multiple LFS, talked to people I know who have Salt Aquariums and man...LOL, everything contradicts everyone lol
Since I am into Fish and am not into Corals, Inverts etc... I have been told I do not need Live rock or live sand. Wont hurt to have a Live rock in there but I got an Emperor 400 on my 40 Gal. tank, do not worry about it.?.?.?.?.?.
Since I live in South Texas (Spring which is 30 miles north of Houston) and the house is always around 72-76 degrees You do not really need a heater?.?.?.?. I am probably getting a heater though
Since I am not getting any corals etc...And that Emperor 400 is a great Filter, no need to worry about an extra current?.?.?.?.?.?.
Soooooooo, I am going to compile every answer I can get and continue to be a sponge and ask here and thank you in advance for your answers
Originally Posted by Jeff10
http:///forum/post/3260431
Hehe, thanks you all, and on Protein Skimmers, I was told it is not needed as much as a good filter because a Protein Skimmer also sucks down the "GOOD" stuff you need as well as the negative?.?.?.?.? A protein skimmer will be invaluable in a fish only system as a method to remove dissolved proteins from the water column prior to them breaking down and becoming fodder for the biological filtration. Hehe, you see, I am more twisted up than a pretzel with all of this, but I will figure it out
All of that said, live rock supplies the following important things to even a fish only tank;
1. The varied ways the living flora and fauna help to modify water quality.
2. Live rock has a mix of flora and fauna which are the sorts of organisms that your fishes and non-fishes eat in the wild. The inhabitants of your aquarium are foragers that are searching the rock and bottom in the ocean for food stuffs and therefore in your tank provide a more natural environment for them.
3. LR provides caves, crannies and space to hide behind that are necessary elements of the environment of wild creatures. These areas help to reduce stress in the animals.
I am first off very appreciative that you have chosen to come on and ask questions about your setup prior to getting it going. I would caution you to learn as much as you can from as many sources as you can to develop an understanding about what will best serve you and you particular needs. I think that your ideas about using little live rock, some substrate,a good filter and skimmer will definitely end up a fine system to house your fish. Water changes, filter maintenance and flow in the tank will be of the main concerns for you to deal with here IMO. Please keep asking questions and start to post up some pictures as you progress for us to follow along with.
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3270155
All of that said, live rock supplies the following important things to even a fish only tank;
1. The varied ways the living flora and fauna help to modify water quality.
2. Live rock has a mix of flora and fauna which are the sorts of organisms that your fishes and non-fishes eat in the wild. I think that your ideas about using little live rock, some substrate,a good filter and skimmer will definitely end up a fine system to house your fish.
Very good points.
http:///forum/post/3270155
All of that said, live rock supplies the following important things to even a fish only tank;
1. The varied ways the living flora and fauna help to modify water quality.
2. Live rock has a mix of flora and fauna which are the sorts of organisms that your fishes and non-fishes eat in the wild. I think that your ideas about using little live rock, some substrate,a good filter and skimmer will definitely end up a fine system to house your fish.
Very good points.
king_neptune
Active Member
Originally Posted by Handbanana
http:///forum/post/3261226
Me too. I want to build one. I started my reasearch in the DIY. SantaMonica posted some cools stuff.
Hope this helps
I had this baby running 6 months. .1 would be a bad day.
I shut if off and went to skimmer only, 5 was avarage, but I could creep up on 10 occasionaly.
Currently Im experimenting with both skimmer and scrubber.
Skimmer's give you a more pristine look to the water, but scrubbers give you better readings.
Im shooting for both!
http:///forum/post/3261226
Me too. I want to build one. I started my reasearch in the DIY. SantaMonica posted some cools stuff.
Hope this helps
I had this baby running 6 months. .1 would be a bad day.
I shut if off and went to skimmer only, 5 was avarage, but I could creep up on 10 occasionaly.
Currently Im experimenting with both skimmer and scrubber.
Skimmer's give you a more pristine look to the water, but scrubbers give you better readings.
Im shooting for both!