lolz, yes another leopard shark question from a newbie

[topaz330]

ok heres the deal, i'm currently picking up a 180 tank for my townhome and am looking to house probably a leopard, and a ray. now before all the "this tank is too small bashing let me explain myself" i have new construction being built and should be done in about 18 months lets just say 2 years to be safe and am custom building probably a 450-500 gal to house them when its done. now my question is, is that for the time being which is about a year and a half, will i have a problem with a leopard outgrowing the tank or will i have some time? thanks in advance

 

[moraymike]

If you don't over feed, you should be able to swing it... Good luck!

 

[moraym]

As Mike said, make sure you don't overfeed, and make sure you have more than enough filtration. Plan the filtration system you'll be using, and then double it.

 

[topaz330]

Originally posted by MorayM
As Mike said, make sure you don't overfeed, and make sure you have more than enough filtration. Plan the filtration system you'll be using, and then double it.
is that because of how sensitive sharks are to the water?

 

[mattiej]

Not to dampen your ideas but in two years the leopard will be miserably cramped in a 180. I have to scream when folks suggest underfeeding a shark to keep it from growing normally. It is like saying that only feeding little Mikey a meal a week will keep him small. Sharks require proper nutrition to survive and by underfeeding you are shortening its life span. The average size of a leopard is around 6 FEET and anything short of a large pool in the thousands of gallons is way too small. IMHO leopards should only be kept by those with the pools large enough to mantain it for its entire life not just until it no longer fits it tank! I have sharks and I know that they can be very rewarding but you have to have its final tank in place and cycled. A malnourished shark is a horrible site and should not be a method to squeeze a shark in too small a tank. Please consider another animal!

 

[gasguzzler]

Bravo. Now I dont have to say it!

 

[moraymike]

mattiej & gasguzzler:
Well said. Although I certainly wasn't suggesting nor would I ever suggest underfeeding an animal (I don't think MorayM was either).
Topaz330:
I've kept Leopards for a number of years with varying results. I don't have a leopard. In fact, I seriously doubt that I will ever purchase one again. They are beautiful animals and they are very tempting, but the fact is that most specimens will not thrive in a home systems. Unless you are able to chill the water and provide a huge sytem, the odds are not in your favor (or the sharks).
Now, I don't think it is our place to tell other board memebers what they can and can't purchase. We should; however, caution you. After all, there is a wealth of knowledge here, so folks should put it to good use. Leopards don't like warm water, tank corners, aggressive tank mates, etc. If you are truly dedicated the providing an adequate home, I think we should support you by giving you the best advice that we can. A chiller, a great skimmer, maybe a UV light, etc. need to be in your budget for the 180. If you have the appropriate equipment, I believe that the 180 should be sufficient for a year to a year and a half. Your 500 gallon tank will make a great display, but you do have to remember that you will not be able to support an adult leopard for life. If you are still interested, I suggest that you start working now to find a potential home for your overgrown shark. Good luck!

 

[mattiej]

Very good points MorayMike, but we have to be careful as to what is meant by 'overfeefing'. Following a regualr feeding schedule and giving the shark the proper nutrition will mean that it will grow at a normal rate or faster due to less competition and the ease with which it obtains food. I agree that we expierenced hobbyist should be helpful and give advice that is needed by both the hobbyist and the animal but after years in the pet industry I have seen far too many animals die due to a hurried attempt to keep them. Sorry to say that this can be avoided by simply doing one's homework! It is very unlikely that a home will be found for the leopard once it outgrows the owner's means to care for it. Remember it is not just the initial investment but a financial responsibilty for the life of the animal. You will be surprised how much it costs to feed a six foot leopard shark. I understand the excitment that is there when you see one of these remarkable creatures but reason must win out. All too often folks purchase an animal that is too large for their set up. Yes a leopard pup could do fine in a 180 for about a year or so, but what happens when the new tank isn't ready or even cycled. Trying to cycle a tank with a shark is a sure way to kill that shark. I will preach it again but stability is the key. Topaz is his own person, he will have to make his own decision, but remember shark keeping takes time, money, and plenty of dedication. Dropping a shark in a tank and feeding it will only ensure a very unhealthy animal.

 

[topaz330]

i appreciate everyones advice and if i comes down to my enjoyment or the sharks health i will def choose the sharks well being over my desire to have a leopard. now if thats the case, knowing what i'm doing what sharks do you recommend? I don't want a bottom deweller, i'm looking for a swimmer. any ideas? also splash1914 had successful carried 2 leopards in his custom 180, are there different species of leopard sharks? he seems pretty knowledgable on sharks and would love his opinion on this as well.

 

[moraym]

Yeah, I definitely wasn't suggesting underfeeding the shark, just wanted to agree that overfeeding is really bad (I consider overfeeding when food is left on the tank bottom all day because nothing ate it). My suggestion on filtration Topaz is just what you thought, sharks are not too hardy when it comes to bad water quality.
Keep asking around the board concerning sharks to keep in your tank, there is a lot of good information here.

 

[harlequin]

Well here are some smaller sharks, whether you will be able to find them without hook and line is another question.
Bonnetheads 5ft
Atlantic Sharpnose usually no more than 4ft
there is a smaller species of hammerhead that has a max size of 5 feet too
These are just off the top of my head as far as sizes go and easiness to catch, i will leave the care up to someone who knows much more than I on sharks. Except, dont feed them goldfish like that moron on West Coast Choppers.

 

[gasguzzler]

How about this one???

 

[mattiej]

Sharpnoses and bonnets are open water sharks and need thousands of gallons to survive. Square tanks are problematic for both as they will have problems with ramming into corners. Unfortuantely with the size constraints you are forced to go with the catsharks or epuallettes. Not to stir up too much but two leopards in a 180 is way TOO much. They may do well for a time but will ultimately lead a shortened life, period.
Sharks really aren't any less hardy then most reef fish. The problem is that they are constantly forced to live in cramped conditions and in completely under-filtered water. This harkens to the fact that sharks require a certain percentage of their body mass in food to survive and the ratio of body mass to total water volume is very small. At first the ratio is favorable to the shark as it is a pup but as it grows and the tank volume stays the same then the problems start. Just a word of warning, it is very difficult to nurse a sick shark back to health. I have done it for the aquarium, but I wouldn't suggest any private owner attempt it. To avoid this in the first place it is best to start with a tank of the proper size for the adult animal. Stability is important as it requires a lot of energy on the sharks part to adjust to ever changing conditions. The more stable the environment is, the better the shark will do. Stable as in non-existant ammonia and nitrites, nitrates kept below 50 ppm (actually below 25 is optimal), and a constant pH, salinity and so forth. This can only be accomplished with a properly sized tank, proper filtration, and deligent mantenance. If you are willing and able to provide these things for the adult shark then you are able to do so for the pups.
Not to be on a soap box but I am only trying to steer you on the right course to start with. I know of one local fish store that has single handedly seen to the death of atleast a hundred leopards over the years due to a lack of proper preparation. They sold them to whoever wanted one and didn't even offer advice on their care. I, personally, know of a dozen that were bought while I worked there that died within a month or so. Please consider all the advice given and research all you can. I believe there is nothing wrong with keeping sharks, as long as you are prepared to care for the animals for their entire lives. Believe me, there are really no places to get rid of an unwanted shark once it has grown up. Public aquariums won't take them and never, ever release one back into the wild!

 

[topaz330]

Originally posted by mattiej
Sharpnoses and bonnets are open water sharks and need thousands of gallons to survive. Square tanks are problematic for both as they will have problems with ramming into corners. Unfortuantely with the size constraints you are forced to go with the catsharks or epuallettes. Not to stir up too much but two leopards in a 180 is way TOO much. They may do well for a time but will ultimately lead a shortened life, period.
Sharks really aren't any less hardy then most reef fish. The problem is that they are constantly forced to live in cramped conditions and in completely under-filtered water. This harkens to the fact that sharks require a certain percentage of their body mass in food to survive and the ratio of body mass to total water volume is very small. At first the ratio is favorable to the shark as it is a pup but as it grows and the tank volume stays the same then the problems start. Just a word of warning, it is very difficult to nurse a sick shark back to health. I have done it for the aquarium, but I wouldn't suggest any private owner attempt it. To avoid this in the first place it is best to start with a tank of the proper size for the adult animal. Stability is important as it requires a lot of energy on the sharks part to adjust to ever changing conditions. The more stable the environment is, the better the shark will do. Stable as in non-existant ammonia and nitrites, nitrates kept below 50 ppm (actually below 25 is optimal), and a constant pH, salinity and so forth. This can only be accomplished with a properly sized tank, proper filtration, and deligent mantenance. If you are willing and able to provide these things for the adult shark then you are able to do so for the pups.
Not to be on a soap box but I am only trying to steer you on the right course to start with. I know of one local fish store that has single handedly seen to the death of atleast a hundred leopards over the years due to a lack of proper preparation. They sold them to whoever wanted one and didn't even offer advice on their care. I, personally, know of a dozen that were bought while I worked there that died within a month or so. Please consider all the advice given and research all you can. I believe there is nothing wrong with keeping sharks, as long as you are prepared to care for the animals for their entire lives. Believe me, there are really no places to get rid of an unwanted shark once it has grown up. Public aquariums won't take them and never, ever release one back into the wild!
as far as free swimmers, theres none that is small enough for the 180?

 

[mattiej]

Unfortuantely there are no open water sharks that would survive in a 180. It's the nature of the beast, any shark that is a constant swimmer will not do well in such a small tank ( small for these sharks, that is). Horn sharks are fairly active and very hardy, these might be of interest to you.
I also wanted to say cudoes to you for asking before purchasing and not vice versa. I would suggest you get Scott Michael's Book on Aquarium Sharks and Rays. It is a treasure house of information. As I have said before my only criticism is what seems an under-estimation on tank size in the species guide, however, the book is an absolute most for any serious shark keeper.

 

[tony detroit]

I have experience. To end all arguments, do yourself a favor and don't buy a leopard if you have anything short of a small swimming pool. Mine is already big, and he's only a year old. If you want a cool 500gal put some puffers, triggers and eels in there and you'll have a way cooler tank than you ever will with a leopardshark and a ray. I have a 300 for a leopard a smoothound and a cali ray right now and it's getting pretty boring to say the least. Most likely you won't listen to me, just like I didn't listen to anybody else either like I should have, and eventually you'll see what we're talking about. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

 

[moraymike]

Mine is already big, and he's only a year old. If you want a cool 500gal put some puffers, triggers and eels in there and you'll have a way cooler tank than you ever will with a leopardshark and a ray.
I've got to agree with Tony on this one. Most people that have tried leopard sharks won't try them again. We could debate this for ever, but nothing speaks like experience. Still, someone were willing to build that "swimming pool" with a great filtration system and a chiller, I think a leopard would be a wonderful display animal. Personnally, I think there are plenty of other sharks, fish, and eels that I would rather keep.

 

[bullshark]

Ive killed two Leopard Sharks. Tried to keep them in my old 180, but they just dont live long in a tank.
I think that a tank with a trigger or two, a grouper, large tang or angel and maye an eel would be WAY MORE entertaining than a shark. I have even had a nurse shark in the same 180. Different times, but the nurse got huge FAST.
Dont buy sharks, they arent even that cool once you get over the first 20 minutes of it.
Now I have a 120 with a Bumblebee Grouper that I shouldnt have......

 

[mattiej]

Damn nice looking fish. Wish I had one of those in my pool!
Almost forgot Tony PM or email me (hallmj@att.net) with your mailing address so we can arrange about the leopard. Yes I have the pool capacity to house one and the experience to boot. Don't want to come off as too much of a hypocrite.

 

[tony detroit]

I'll email you tomorrow, I've seen pics, and I've read your posts, I know you know what you're doin, no worries here.