Longterm Project: 180 Gallon

[davidcanupp]

It will be at least a year or two before I will be ready for a tank of this size. But, I see that as a good thing because I have plently of time to prepare and save money. Therefore, I have some basic thoughts and questions that I would like to run by you all. This will be pretty lengthy, so if you can, answer whatever questions appeal to you. Thanks a lot for your time and advise!
The Tank: I plan on a GLASS 180 gallon (72x24x24). I would like to have either a center overflow so the tank could be free standing. What are the advantages/disadvantages of such a design? Also, I think that I know where to get a glass 180 with no overflow built in for about $275. Would it be worth it to buy the cheap tank and install overflows myself or use retro-overflows that fit on the tank?
The Sump: I plan on a sump and refugium combo, possibly done by partitioning my 55 gallon tank or by using plastic bins. I want to use a size that would be efficient but also reasonable...does this size sound right? The refugium would be lit by a power compact that I have sitting around. What is the current view on bioballs? (I think I would like to go without them if it is advantageous). The sump would be encased below the aquarium in the stand.
The Pumps: I would be interested in two main returns from the sump (with 6 penguin powerheads already in my possession as the auxillary circulation). What gph (I thought about 1200gph but am not sure) would I be looking for in the main pump and what sort of pump configuration would I need to run this system sufficiently? (I am not much of a plumber and have just about no experience with sumps)
Protein Skimmers: I have two Sea Clones that work very well (rated up to 100 gallons a piece). Would it be feasible to use these in tandem to skim this system? I know some people don't like Sea Clones, but I feel that they work very well on small tanks so I thought it might be possible to use two on a larger one (seeing as I already have them and all).
Lighting: I have a four bulb 48'' (110 watts a piece) VHO setup currently running on my 55 gallon. I plan on using these lights in addition to two 250 watt metal halides. This adds up to 5.2 watts per gallon if anyone was wondering. I realize that these will not span the length of the tank but I might use two longer VHOs in place of four short ones. This would result in lower wattage (4 watts per gallon) but I think that I could get by. Sound good?
The Canopy: Well, haven't figured that one out yet, but it will probably be as simple as possible while still looking good. I would like to incorporate one LARGE fan so as to avoid a chiller.
The Stand: I believe that I will build my own, probably out of 4x4s, 2x4s, and birch plywood for the exterior. It will have to hold a lot of weight, so I think that this area will need a considerable amount of planning. If anyone has suggestions, please feel free to offer guidance.
Hi-tech Equipment: You know, things like calcium reactors, etc. While I have always wanted one, my current reef does quite well with only biweekly water changes and additions of trace elements (no actual calcium/kalkwasser dosage). It seems to me the same concept could work on a larger scale. Any thoughts?
Whew, I hope somebody made it to the end. Thanks for everything!!! -David

 

[davidcanupp]

Thanks for your time lore. I actually forgot to include the RO/DI unit. I am planning on using a Kent Marine Maxxima 24gpd ($218.00), but hopefully I will have the unit sooner than the tank. Wavemakers are really cool and I have thought about them. Right now I have all of my powerheads on timers so they come on one by one throughout the day and all stay on during the light period, then slowly go off after the lights are out. The effect is "calm seas" in the morning and "rough waters" during the day. The UV sterilizer is also a good thought. I like the idea and hopefully I can design a system where I can add one on later down the road to spread the cost out. For starters though, I will probably do without one.
Any thoughts on plumbing or the tank / overflow issues?
Thanks a lot!

 

[wamp]

Get the tank that has the overflows built into the tank. You will thank yourself later.. Trust me on this.
You cna click on my page below to see my 180 gallon tank.

 

[wamp]

Oh, I run a calcium reactor and if you can afford it, get one for the 180. If you have lots of corals that use calcium(and coraline algea) I do not think you can change enough water to make up for the amount of calcium needed.. My calcium stays around 440ppm with the reactor and it was at 390 with a drip of kalk every day.

 

[davidcanupp]

Wamp, I agree. I think that the built-in overflows will work way better. Thanks for the advise.
So, what size sump/refugium would be good for a 180, and what flow rate/pump should I look for? I was thinking about the Iwaki WMD40RLXT, which runs 1200 gph at 4'. It is $159.00. Is this a good pump? If I went with this, how many returns will it power (1, 2, more)? and will it be easy to run two or three?
Also, here's a twist: I am also halfway considering the exact same setup with a 125 gallon (72x18x22). This would save me a lot of $ stocking it and still allow me my dream of having a 6 foot long tank. In this case, what changes in sump size and flow rate/pump would be necessary? The tank that I am considering is a glass 125 with dual overflows for $435.62. As opposed to a glass 180 with dual overflows for $700.00. Also, if I went with the 125 I would probably shell out the money for a UV.
Thanks for the input y'all!

 

[davidcanupp]

I really appreciate you guys bearing with me, you are helping a lot!

 

[rockster]

By center overflow and free-standing...what do you mean? Did you mean that you can view the tank at all sides? and that the overflow is right in the center? If so, I haven't seen a glass tank like that. I am actually considering an acrylic tank, 4ft X 4 ft X 2 ft(ht) (at least 3/4 inch thick acrylic)with center overflow and I am planning to arrange the LRs around that overflow. You can view it from all sides. I already inquired about the set-up and I got a quote for $800 (around $1000, delivered). But I am taking my time. I think somebody here has the same set up and I liked it.

 

[davidcanupp]

Yeah, thats the overflow that I am talking about. The only way I know to get it on a glass tank is to have someone do it. I just got off the phone with a couple of people and I think that the center overflow (despite being really cool) would just be too expensive for me. I wanted to see it from all sides, but two overflows in each corner would still work I think (and be cheaper and more effecient). I just don't want to deal with acrylic, and I understand what you mean about taking your time...me too. In order to be satisfied and still afford to eat, it takes careful planning. David

 

[reeferx]

If you see Predator lurking around ask him about his tank, I believe he has the overflow setup you are talking about. Or, if you do a search, he has posted things about his tank once or twice.
I spoke to my old boss from the lfs today and tonight when I have more time I am going to post a thread about drilling glass. I couldn't remember all the details and he filled me in.
Later, Good luck!
Matt

 

[wamp]

That is the pump I use. I have 2 returns. I also use 3 in the tank Power heads. There is plenty of circulation in the tank. A wave maker is not a bad idea with the amount you want to run but not a necessity. I have been very pleased with my tank. It is made by All-Glass. I know there is another tank out there made by someone which has one center overfow. Saw it once. But I like the two to provide more surface skiming.
My total tank stand and canopy was around 1700$. I probably could have gotten a little better deal but it's only money.
If you are debating between the 125 and the 180, I highly reconed the 180. The 180 gives you more depth allowing you to be more creative with your rock stacking.

 

[rapt0r32]

Well maybe I can chime in on this one. I only have a 125 but it seems about the same lines you are on.
The pump you are looking at, I have read on here quite a few people who run them and like them. I am running a little giant ( cringing waiting for the flaming to start )flows about 1200 gph but with all my 90's and valves it matchs the over flow nicely. Though I have not been running it very long I think the noise is very livable in my standards..It dumps into the tank with 1 inch pipe. I am drawing up plans to a spraybar and that should be coming up in the near future.
I made a 30 gallon rubbermaid sump and I am using a CPR overflow. My tank wasnt made with an overflow so I had to make do with what was available to me at the time. If I ever decide to go bigger my next one would be built in. Which Penquins are you thinking of running? the 550's or the 1140's. About 2 years back when I got into saltwater I got my 55 gallon and bought 2 550's for it and to this day they are still running strong. I really like them alot. Never any trouble so I have stuck with them. I ran 6 Penquins and one Powersweep before I tore down the tank. With the external pump and the 6 PH you should be good to go with the circulation end of it.
Skimmer: I have a seaclone on my 55 now. I know they are rated up to 100 but when it was on my 125 I didn't feel as if it was quite up to par. Being I was over 25 gallons of what they say it could handle I expected to be dumping it a bit more than what I was. Since you already have them though they might do they trick for you. Why spend more than you have to. I would be interested on how they work out for you.
Lights: I will stay out of because when it comes to lights I have no clue and havent really jumped into that subject. People can say I have this light or that light and you will see a Raptor with a face like a deer caught in the headlights.
Stand: Heavy duty would be the way to go. Nothing says loving like waking up to living room that has just been converted to a 180 gallon indoor saltwater swimming pool.
Rapt0r

 

[wamp]

P.S. I would leave out the UV if your setting up a reef tank. They have arguable advantages and disadvantges. I have never used one and never had any problems (until the other day) with any parasites or unnormal algea blooms. Even with a UV I still would have lost my 2 tangs the other day..
Lights: As much as you can afford. If you cant afford what you need, wait till you can!!!!!
I had to put mine on my credit card but, they were the best investment so far!
Good Luck and if you want more details on my setup, check out my site and email me..

 

[davidcanupp]

I think that that is going to be the pump that I am going to use. The powerheads that I am going to use are a little smaller tahn you mioght have thought: 4 pengiun 201s, 1 pengiun 301, and 1 zoomed powersweep 218. I have compiled a list of things and estimated prices that will probably not change no matter if it is the 125 gallon or the 180. Check it out and see what you think:
1) $129.99 Iwaki WMD30RXLT (900gph @ 5' head)
2) $218.00 Kent Marine Maxxima RO/DI (24 gpd)
3) $15.00 Plumbing Supplies (PVC, ball valves, etc)
4) $15.00 Bioballs, sponge, or some sort of army men to function as biological filtration
5) $20.00 Miracle Mud for Refugium
6) $12.00 Rubbermaid Container for sump (or maybe one of my tanks)
7) $18.00 Fan for lights
8) $200.00 Two 175 watt Metal Halide Fixtures from Aquatic Lighting (This will accompany 440 watts of VHO that I already have)
9) $36.00 Crushed Coral Substrate (Think Pink) I know, nobody likes cc, but I do and I use it with nitrates hovering around 4 for 2 years. Will be used in addition to existing substrate
10) $40.00 Base Rock (20lbs @ 2.00/lb)
11) $64.00 400 gallon mix of Instant Ocean Salt
12) $200.00 Wooden Stand (DIY)
13) $100.00 Wooded Canopy (DIY)
14) $343.55 125 gallon glass tank (72x18x22) with dual overflows
TOTAL: $ 1,411.54
I realize that this list does not contain everything that I need, but it is a start. Feel free to teel me if you all know cheaper places to get these things or if you think of anythin else. I was actually hoping to get the price down, but I don't know how.
Thanks a lot---David

 

[wamp]

I would run 3 halides over the tank due to length. Also I would a little bit bigger return pump.. Maybe the step up from that one..

 

[wamp]

I take it your doing a reef? If so. You can also leave out the Bio-Balls. You can just have your live rock and sand be your filter. I have a 40 gallon acrylic sump that houses my protein skimmer. I have my reactor on the outside of the sump since I have to add media.

 

[davidcanupp]

yeah its gonna be a reef. I figured that I could do without the bioballs but I was confused about the biological filtration. If I don't use the balls, should I include some sort of filter floss or something to serve as mechanical filtration?
So I realize that the pump gph should be a little less than the overflow gph, but how do I figure out the overflow gph? Will it be labeled on the tank or something? What is a good ratio of overflow to pump gph?
For the Iwaki's, should I run the RXLT models that are only rated for circulation, or get the less powerful one that is rated for pressure tasks as well?
Three halides: I hate to see my power bill and my temperature with all that running so I might stick with two and see how it goes. (I don't want to invrest in a chiller). Thanks though, I think that you are probably right about the length factor, but I will be happy with two I think.
Thanks as always,
David

 

[wamp]

I use the a4dlx. I have a ball valve on the output to control flow. I can run it wide open with no problems but I cut it back a little due to all the current in the tank.
As far as the lights. I say that from experience. A friend set up a 125 with 2 and the problem was the braces cast a shadow in the tank when the halides were on. There are 2 on the top and they are evenly spaced. He switched to three soon there after but maybe yours can be setup diffrent.
As far as the heat. My tank runs around 79 all the time. I have 3 175w halides and 4 VHOs. No chiller. I got my canopy built high an open back and fans. Also if you have a large sump with a lot of surface area and good flow in it that will also help with cooling. Just throwing some ideas to you not saying its' the only way.
Electric bill. ha.. wait till you run that pump 24-7... thats what gets ya!

 

[davidcanupp]

What is the a4dlx? What brand, and what is the gph of that one? Hmmm, you may be right about the metal halides, I will see if I can figure out a way to cut that problem out, and if not, I can always go with three. Thanks for the warning!
By the way, I like your website and pics. Do you have any pics of the entire tank, with the stand and canopy? Let me know.
David

 

[lionpicasso]

Davidcannup where LFS do you go to???
I go to Aquarium imports in Hoover.