Looking for Seahorses for my refuge

[puffin04]

I have a 125 gallon reef with a 55 gallon fuge. Tank has been running for about a year with zero amm, nides, and trates. All i have in the fuge right now is a 4 in bed of sugar sand and a big ball of cheto. The fuge has a slow flow but can be turned up. My pod population is booming and was thinking of dosing plankton to help it increase more. What i am looking for is a hardy seahorse that can live there. Also what plants can i keep as well besides churpa. What i have for lighting is four 65 watt PC that are 6500k. Thanks
Steffen Sparks

 

[puffin04]

After much reading i found out that it is stupid to keep horses in a fuge so i am going out to buy a 12 gallon biocube. The reason being is the temperature differents since they like temps below 75 i think for health reason. Can anyone recommend a good horse? Also how do you keep your temp low without a chiller? Thanks
Steffen Sparks

 

[pledosophy]

I hate to be the bubble burster but a 12g biocube is not going to work for seahorse either.
Most of the tropical seahorses can grow to between 5-8" much too large for a 12g biocube. Also biocubes run fairly hot so even if you go with a larger size you will need to do some mods to it.
Sorry.
Why not look at a 29g system?

 

[zeke92]

29g and more is the average suggestion for any large species of horse. a 12 gallon is even a little large to keep dwarves safely.
11-28 gallon tanks are pretty much right out of the range. of course i'm not saying a 28 won't work for big horses or an 11 wouldn't work for dwarves. but 2-10 gallons is suggested for dwarves or if you only have a 1-1.5 g you should get a nice sponge filter or something. and for bigger horses it's suggested to have a 29 or higher.

 

[suzy]

Scott Michael gave a talk at our local reef club a few months ago. He was talking about nano tanks and said that seahorses were great for them. And now, with only cb seahorses available, I think you could have a pair in a 12 gallon. CB are smaller than their WC versions, IMO.
That being said, do you want a small tank for the space you have available for it? You can get larger for cheaper, and I always want bigger once I've set up a tank.

 

[veronicad]

What species of SH would be good in a 12gal nano? Would that mean you couldn't have ANY shrimp ? Or fish ? I know you'd have to be careful in your choices, but....??

 

[puffin04]

I have all the room i need for anything. I thought dwarfs would be ok in a 12 gallon if it was moded with a chiller. What temps are you running your horses at? Thanks
steffen sparks

 

[veronicad]

I've not heard of needing a chiller for dwarves. I thought they liked middle 70's but I loaned my book to someone.....breviceps are also tiny and a chiller is usually recommended for them.....

 

[pledosophy]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2561960
Scott Michael gave a talk at our local reef club a few months ago. He was talking about nano tanks and said that seahorses were great for them. And now, with only cb seahorses available, I think you could have a pair in a 12 gallon. CB are smaller than their WC versions, IMO.
That being said, do you want a small tank for the space you have available for it? You can get larger for cheaper, and I always want bigger once I've set up a tank.
I disagree. With certain mods some of the larger nano's can be made into great homes for seahorses but the smaller nano's will never make good long term homes. They are too small, they lack adaquete filtration and they run to hot.
A 12g JBJ nanocube only holds 8g's of water. A pair of seahorses can go through a cube to a cube and a half of mysis a day and grow to be 6-8 inches long if one of the common medium sized species. Given the nature of seahorses and the limitations of smaller tanks IMO they do not make a good long term home for a seahorse.
Also IME while WC seahorses typically come in at a larger size then CB seahorses, CB seahorses will grow to the same size if not larger then WC's (CB's receive better nutrition if taken care of properly). I have seen a 10" CB reidi, a 8" CB erectus, an 8" CB barbouri, an 8" CB comes. Just what I have personally seen. CB seahorses are typically shipped rather young so the breeders can make some amount of money, but they will turn into a full sized seahorse if you care for them properly.
I think it is possible you misunderstood what he was saying, or you are taking it out of context.
JMO

 

[pledosophy]

For more info on modding a nano tank for seahorses this is a good thread IMO.
http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showtopic=34647

 

[suzy]

Yeah, I must have misunderstood......

 

[mal40]

Originally Posted by pledosophy
http:///forum/post/2571985
Also IME while WC seahorses typically come in at a larger size then CB seahorses, CB seahorses will grow to the same size if not larger then WC's (CB's receive better nutrition if taken care of properly).
So you are saying that the reason captive bred seahorses are smaller is because breeders sell them off as youngsters, and if you keep them alive for a few years they will grow larger than the wild caught seahorses?

 

[pledosophy]

Not will grow as in will definetly be larger then any WC you have ever seen, but have the ability to grow to the same size and yes larger then WC's with proper care.
I'll elaborate further just for the sake of discussion.
When you go into your LFS or order an aquacultured seahorse online from a vendor they are quite small and yes very cute.
But, like any young fish with proper care those CB seahorses who were only a few inches at the time will grow to be an adult size, which will vary species to species.
Breeders sell off there charges at a young age for a wide variety of reasons. Here are a few.
1. The cost of keeping the seahorse for the extra time it takes to get to a full size is cost prohibitive. The breeder has to pay for the food, the water, the electricity, etc.
2. There is a space issue with most breeders. The same tank they would be growing out these seahorses over an extended period of time could be used to raise more fry, and generate more income.
3. With the net pen seahorses coming in from asia being sold to wholesalers at such a low cost the extra money a breeder would need to charge to sell there full grown seahorses would price them out of the market.
Additionally IMHO the amount of parasites present in wild caught seahorses also inhibits growth. Aquacultured seahorses if treated properly and not fed live food containing parasites don't have this problem.
A study of 43 seahorses was conducted by Dr. Belli which found that 42% of those seahorses studied had parasites and in 16% it was the cause of death or a leading contributor. Parasites are generally well tolerated by seahorses but do take there toll, presenting as a chronic wasting away condition(Working Notes 2006). This actually keeps some WC seahorses smaller then there CB counter parts as the CB seahorses are not riddled with parasites.
IMO it is important that we as keepers set up systems that will accomadate what are stock will become, and not just what they are at time of purchase which is why I discourage people from setting up 12g tanks for seahorses.
Does that help Mal?

 

[suzy]

I can see the opposite theory about CB vs WC seahorse. Todd Gardner wrote a wonderful paper about seahorse fry nutrition. He stated that fry raised in their newborn stages on copepods and foodstuffs like they receive in the ocean will have stronger immune systems than those raised on artemia. I do not feel most breeders are able to grow the quantities of copepods required to mass produce seahorses. The quality of seahorses raised on a diet completely foreign to their species cannot be compared to seahorses raised on the diet the species has evolved over milleniums to eat.
The discussion about net penned seahorses being inferior to a few select breeders has been rehashed over and over on many marine forums. The only site that considers the theory plausible is your site. I do think it does take major kahunas to come here to promote your site and your breeders, though!

 

[pledosophy]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2573540
Todd Gardner wrote a wonderful paper about seahorse fry nutrition. He stated that fry raised in their newborn stages on copepods and foodstuffs like they receive in the ocean will have stronger immune systems than those raised on artemia.
Is it puiblished? I'd love to read it. Must have been a large under taking just to track the wild fry through the development phases.
The quality of seahorses raised on a diet completely foreign to their species cannot be compared to seahorses raised on the diet the species has evolved over milleniums to eat.
Wait I thought you said Todd did compare it?

Just kidding just kidding. I'd really love to see the paper and the numbers behind it.
The discussion about net penned seahorses being inferior to a few select breeders has been rehashed over and over on many marine forums.
Well since you brought it up I agree, but this was more about WC vs. CB which you also brought up. Net pen seahorses are notorious carriers for parasites. There is some research being done on them now by a few people, but details aren't published yet.
I do think it does take major kahunas to come here to promote your site and your breeders, though!
You do realize under your user name it has your website address right?
For the record I do not own a web site. Well I did it. It was a photography site where I could showcase my work, it's been down for awhile. No longer looking for work, to busy.

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by pledosophy
http:///forum/post/2573605
For the record I do not own a web site. .
There is a moderator on ******* that uses the same user name that you do. Hey, if you are the same guy, I don't care if you come here to plug *****, and the mods won't care either, if no one complains. I won't. I do not want to go through what I went through with your guys on ** again. Although here, I can block vicious

[hr]
PMs....
Hi, Mal40! My sticky is still on ** Looks like they made another sticky just for you!

 

[clownfish11]

he could pull of dwarf seahorses

 

[pledosophy]

he could pull of dwarf seahorses
He could pull off dwarfs. There would be some obstacles to get the feeding density up to par. Some mods to the return pump would need to be made. You could go easy and just trim the impeller with scissors but it will cut the life span of the pump. I ran a MJ1200 with a trimmed impeller for 3 years and all was fine. I removed it when I changed my plumbing around, it still worked.
Some temp issues would need to be dealt with as well but those mods are available in the previous link I posted.
In dwarfs tanks I usually recommend a panacur dose to eliminate hydroids as well.
It would take some work, but with dilligent maintence it could be done IMHO. Just an opinion, I have never done it myself.
HTH
Suzy,
You got as link to Todd's article for me? I couldn't find it.

 

[suzy]

The mods have asked me not to put in links. Like I said, someone complained. I can't even link to articles I have written.

 

[zeke92]

yeah they are so paranoid about 'competitors' and crap they won't let the community post helpful links to even non business websites like seahorse dot org and stuff. its sorta sad.