looking for suggestions on an upgrade

[cufishfan]

Never knew how quickly this hobby could take over my life!
I have a 55 gallon SW tank set up (w/LR and CC, 2 PH, UGF and HOB filter) and I'm happy with it. However, I'm planning to move in about 5 months and I've started thinking about how I'm going to move everything. My first thought is VERY CAREFULLY!
Then I considered an upgrade- I could get a new/better/bigger setup, and then transfer everything a little more easily. My thought was to get a used tank, somewhere between 90-125, ditch the CC and UGF for a deep sand bed and sump/refugium, maybe upgrade lighting too. Only problem is I know absolutely nothing about the plumbing

.
My question is: how possible does this sound for someone with little/no plumbing/drilling/electrical skills? What equipment would I need (tank, stand, LS, LR, lights, heater are a given)? And what kind of price investment am I looking at- I'm gonna have to start saving now! Or am I better off keeping my current setup and handling the move when it comes up?
Thanks!!

 

[gmann1139]

Take a look at the list of Craig. Especially being in a big metro area, you can find complete setups for sale, minus fish.
Just search on 'aquarium' and 'fish tank', and be ready to weed though a lot of detritus.

 

[cufishfan]

Yeah, that's how I found my current setup. I just haven't seen any complete and/or drilled setups in a while. Are there significant benefits to a drilled tank? What exactly is a sump used for? And a refugium? And can I have either/both without drilling?

 

[gmann1139]

A sump is a tank, usually under the stand, that's used to hold filtration equipment, as well as 'unsightly' things like heaters.
A refugium is nearly the same in that's its a tank under the stand, but usually has macroalgae in it, and can be used as an isolation tank for a fish.
Drilled tanks (also referred to as Reef Ready or RR) are preferred because it keeps the plumbing internal, and I think produces better flow than a Hang On Back Overflow.

 

[fau8]

A refugium is nearly the same in that's its a tank under the stand, but usually has macroalgae in it, and can be used as an isolation tank for a fish.
This is only for behavior issues, not true for sickness or aclamation as it shares the same tank water as your display tank. Thus if the fish is ill it is still afecting your entire system.

 

[brian_wis]

Originally Posted by CUfishfan
http:///forum/post/2938669
Yeah, that's how I found my current setup. I just haven't seen any complete and/or drilled setups in a while. Are there significant benefits to a drilled tank? What exactly is a sump used for? And a refugium? And can I have either/both without drilling?
Hi CUfishfan....There is benefits to a drilled tank, 1st is your overflow bow will have max flow at all times, where as a hang on overflow box you'll have to maintain it weekly if not more to keep at max flow, I myself have enough to do/think about and maintain,
I myself drilled my 150g reef and installed my overflow box and it was rather simple to drill and install....the overflow box never really needs any attention so that's my big plus in my book. If you really want to drill your own I/we could point you in the right direction, Just make sure you buy all glass Aquariums if you want to drill, they are the best brand in my opinion

Or you could hire a glass company to drill it with no guarantee

kinda scary...
Refugium, Another benefit because of there deep sand beds which helps keep Nitrate low in your display, refugiums also feed your fish and corals, look really close at the tank you have now, you'll see little tiny white/clear looking bugs, those are called copods, fish and corals eat them all the time..
You can have a refugium and a sump without drilling, it all really depends on what a person wants/looks/feels like doing.
I'm done flappin my jaw lol..
Good luck with your tank.
Brian

 

[cufishfan]

Brian, fau8, and Gmann-
Thank you all!
So from what I understand, a sump is more to keep the tank free from filters/heaters/whatnot and a refugium has more biological benefit. If I had both, would they be connected to each other?
Can someone give me a basic flow for a setup? Ex. Water leaves tank through X --> enters sump, gets filtered with HOB, Cannister, whatever kind of filter--> is pumped to refugium....? I know my info is incorrect, I'm just trying to understand how they're all connected and how water moves from one to another.
Also, if I kept my setup (55 gal, no holes drilled), could I get rid of my UGF, replace CC with LS, hang the powerheads (that are currently attached to my UGF) on the side of the tank and keep running my HOB filter? Would that be enough filtration? Or, if I set up a sump, how big would it have to be for a 55 gal and what kind of filter would be best suited?
Sorry I have so many questions, but I really appreciate all your help!

 

[gmann1139]

Originally Posted by fau8
http:///forum/post/2938760
A refugium is nearly the same in that's its a tank under the stand, but usually has macroalgae in it, and can be used as an isolation tank for a fish.
This is only for behavior issues, not true for sickness or aclamation as it shares the same tank water as your display tank. Thus if the fish is ill it is still afecting your entire system.
Good point, I didn't say that explicitly, but yeah, its for deliquent fish, not sick one's.

 

[cufishfan]

I've been doing a lot of research these past few days and I don't think I'm going to upgrade the tank just yet (I want my upgrade to be RR and I just don't have the money to do that properly yet).
So here are my basic questions:
- I have an UGF and cc now. I haven't had any bad experiences (knock on wood) but I'm wondering if I should switch to a DSB or SSB? I have LR and it's so hard to really vacuum the CC well and I'm afraid that will lead to problems. Obviously I'd get rid of the UGF if I switched to LS. So should I switch? And which is better- DSB or SSB?
-I want to beef up my clean up crew- I have a peppermint shrimp, 2 nassarius snails and 2 zebra snails. I want another (multiple?) detrivores and more snails. Don't have any out of control growth, but I want to keep everything in check. What are good at eating waste and extra food?
-I've been feeding a combo of frozen brine shrimp and marine pellets. Should I add anything else to their menu (1 clown, 1 yellowtail damsel, 4 green chromis)??
THANK YOU!!!

 

[fau8]

The problem you may encounter with the switch is a tank re-cycle. I would be interested in knowing your current nitrate level.
The ugf and cc are all nitrate makers and you will be removing the main part of your current filtration and I don't beleive your hob will be able to compensate.
If you are going to some day carry out your tank upgrade, I would invest in the sump now, be it a wet dry filter or a refugium. Let it run and become an established part of your system (3-4 weeks) and then remove the ugf and replace it with the sand bed.
Deep sand beds are also not without their own issues, but once again if you utilize a refugium with the proper sand bed you will reap the same benefits and not have to worry cycle issues if the sand base in the tank is disturbed.

 

[cufishfan]

Originally Posted by fau8
http:///forum/post/2940381
If you are going to some day carry out your tank upgrade, I would invest in the sump now, be it a wet dry filter or a refugium. Let it run and become an established part of your system (3-4 weeks) and then remove the ugf and replace it with the sand bed.
Deep sand beds are also not without their own issues, but once again if you utilize a refugium with the proper sand bed you will reap the same benefits and not have to worry cycle issues if the sand base in the tank is disturbed.
Fau, thanks for the quick response. I'll have to get back to you on the nitrates, they were at 0 a few days ago, just before I added some new fish.
So what would you do in my place? What size sump for a 55g? Or a sump/refugium combo? And what equipment is needed? (Xsized tank for sump/refugium, do I keep my HOB?, other mechanical filtration?, macroalgae or sand in sump/fuge? plumbing (obviously I can't drill my current tank), pumps?
And if a DSB can be a problem, would a SSB be better?

 

[fau8]

My answer would depend on what you plan to upgrade to in the future. For a 55 a 20 gallon long would do. For a 75 in would go with a 30 gallon. The bigger the better let the amount of space you have available behind your tank dictate the size.
I would check the clearence shelf and classifieds. On my 75 I have 2 sumps plumed togeather one is an old wet dry (no bioballs- but filled with live rock) and the other is a sump that has a true refuigum built in to it. My lfs always has used equipment at substanial savings.
You can find DIY plans for refugiums on this site, they are easy to build and provide the best water quality.
By the way if you have 0 nitrates now with cc and a ugf your doing things very well.
The other thing reference sump space is the protein skimmer they seem to be getting bigger and bigger as time goes on, so keep that in mind. Will you have room for the return pumps, skimmer , phosphate reactor? the list never stops before the space does.
One other thing the refugium in my opinion is the way to go, but a true reef is filtered by your live rock, but water flow is the main factor. So power heads stategically placed in your tank are essential. Power heads and flow are all effected by your rock work design and sizes needed will differ between a 55 gallon and 75. Its the one thing that bigger is not necessarily better. But you should be aiming for a 10x turnover rate for your tanks water volume.

 

[fau8]

ref. the dsb it is one of those areas that seems to be open to debate. I find the theory to be fact and true but in practicality it seems some event or addition to the tank will stir up your base negating its benifits.
I have a 2" to 4 " sand bed in my tank but maintain a 5" bed in the refugium. I know that will not get disturbed.

 

[cufishfan]

Originally Posted by fau8
http:///forum/post/2940549
My answer would depend on what you plan to upgrade to in the future.
I think I'd like my next tank to be a 125 RR tank. So basically, anything I get for my tank now, I wont be able use for the next one.

Do you (or anyone else??) have experience with hang on back sumps? The stand I have doesn't leave much room under the tank (probably only 10" wide if I leave space around the sides). If I had a hang on back sump, plus HOB filter, plus powerheads with UGF I think I should have plenty of turnover

 

[cufishfan]

Just thought I'd post a picture of the tank for reference. The background looks better in person than in a picture

I promise!