Losing Sand Cleaning To Much Help!!

[shrimpi]

Originally Posted by MrineLfRlz
has anyone ever tried this kind of sand looks good i think its the same kind of stuff my LPS has in there 150gallon
its black Tahitian Moon sand.

I used it in my tank when it was FW with cichlids. It was awesome- never had any problems. But then again, FW vs SW is different. Just my experience

 

[shrimpi]

Also, maybe look into getting a sand sifting goby? they are great for cleaning sand and moving it around(sometimes too much) lol

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Shrimpi
Also, maybe look into getting a sand sifting goby? they are great for cleaning sand and moving it around(sometimes too much) lol
i had one (big) came with the tank
he did more harm then good spit alot of sand on the rocks dug out a couple of my rocks almost killed my clam because he constainly covered were he sat in sand and he didnt even seem to clean much of the sand on top of that the algae never even started to go away so i gave him to my LPS good ridens

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Beth
Its not useless at all, and you can use it, but it has no bacteria. Right now, your biofilter has been depleted, so anything you can do to get that up to speed again is good. How much deeper do you want to make your sand bed
well ive been doing some research and found out my SB was way to low even before i started siphoning ive decided to go at least 2 1/2" deep possibly 3" i heard that was the danger zone but ive also heard it will work just fine too
but no matter the case im going up
also read you only want to put in about 1/2"-1" depth at a week ( i think) or is it a day?

ive went up about 3/4" so far so about 1 3/4" so far total depth
im buying another 20lbs friday going to start adding monday
i think that will be enough till i get my (not live) CaribSea Aragonite x2 15lb bags in
of course i wont add it for about another 2 months as for your
expert advice

so what do you think

 

[mrinelfrlz]

bump?

 

[mrinelfrlz]

ok got in my substrate
so total thus far with the LS i had in before including after i siphoned=20lbs
new= 10lbs
20lbs
20lbs
=70lbs total that is in there now
including the substrate 30lbs
so all that=100lbs
and im probably adding another 20lbs next week LS and then thats it!!

 

[lesleybird]

I use agronite in the 1 to 2 mm. (some may be 3 mm.) size and use one of those phyton water changing hoses that attaches to a faucet to start the suction...IMO it is much better than fine agronite sand because you can vaccuum it up and the crud comes out but the agronite stays down. I do put a fish net in the bottom of the sink to catch the few stray pieces of stuff. I don't like fine sand as I feel the tank is cleaner when I can siphon the gunk out. The agronite helps to buffer the water and the tiny stars and worms like it, the fish can burrow in it no problem. Lesley

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Lesleybird
I use agronite in the 1 to 2 mm. (some may be 3 mm.) size and use one of those phyton water changing hoses that attaches to a faucet to start the suction...IMO it is much better than fine agronite sand because you can vaccuum it up and the crud comes out but the agronite stays down. I do put a fish net in the bottom of the sink to catch the few stray pieces of stuff. I don't like fine sand as I feel the tank is cleaner when I can siphon the gunk out. The agronite helps to buffer the water and the tiny stars and worms like it, the fish can burrow in it no problem. Lesley
that is the size this stuff is

 

[murph]

Well for what it worth sand beds is an area I have done some experimenting with. Tanks with deep beds 4+ inches, tanks with with beds a couple inches, bare bottom, nearly bare bottom with just enough sand to cover the glass and my current bed about a quarter inch.
The one thing that can be certain and anyone who has broken down tanks for moves knows vary well is sand beds get filthy no matter what degree of "live" we want to call them.
First off I have never had any problems when disturbing sand beds. In the case of deep sand beds hydrogen sulfide pockets will develop. If the sand bed is simply stirred I would imagine that these pockets could release into the water column but in the case of removing sand from the system FME the pockets simply siphon off and out with the sand.
In the case of removal or reduction of a sand bed and provided the presence of rock, filter media, a refugium etc. I have also never seen a significant enough disruption in bio filtration to produce detectable ammonia levels although evidently it is possible.
Right now IMO the ideal bed and in the absence of livestock that requires a deep bed would be my current quarter inch setup. Mostly for aesthetic reasons. A bed this shallow will not develop sulfide pockets and can and should be vacuumed. As was said, when doing this you can lose some sand. Adding a cup or two of new aragonite here and there to cover bare patches in the bed has not been a problem for me either.
I am also starting to believe that the nutrient sink that most unvacumed sand beds become is a primary vector for cyano growth. Especially when you consider cyano growth in tanks where other nuisance algae is not a factor, test indicate pristine water quality and all other solutions are being employed.
For systems where nitrate export of some sort becomes necessary, and given there is room in the sump, I use a remote DSB there. I use open unbaffled sumps. I have found that a tupper ware container as small as 8x8x4 filled with a mixture of fine grain and larger grain sands will function to export nitrates in systems with water volume 100 gal plus. With the DSB resideing in the sump and TW container it can quickly and easily be removed and or replaced or even just cut off from the display by turnin off the return pump.
This provides a safety factor for those that believe a dsb can crash. Personally I have never seen or heard of this happening any ware but on Internet forums.
At any rate this is what has worked for me. Your milage may vary.

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Murph
Well for what it worth sand beds is an area I have done some experimenting with. Tanks with deep beds 4+ inches, tanks with with beds a couple inches, bare bottom, nearly bare bottom with just enough sand to cover the glass and my current bed about a quarter inch.
The one thing that can be certain and anyone who has broken down tanks for moves knows vary well is sand beds get filthy no matter what degree of "live" we want to call them.
First off I have never had any problems when disturbing sand beds. In the case of deep sand beds hydrogen sulfide pockets will develop. If the sand bed is simply stirred I would imagine that these pockets could release into the water column but in the case of removing sand from the system FME the pockets simply siphon off and out with the sand.
In the case of removal or reduction of a sand bed and provided the presence of rock, filter media, a refugium etc. I have also never seen a significant enough disruption in bio filtration to produce detectable ammonia levels although evidently it is possible.
Right now IMO the ideal bed and in the absence of livestock that requires a deep bed would be my current quarter inch setup. Mostly for aesthetic reasons. A bed this shallow will not develop sulfide pockets and can and should be vacuumed. As was said, when doing this you can lose some sand. Adding a cup or two of new aragonite here and there to cover bare patches in the bed has not been a problem for me either.
I am also starting to believe that the nutrient sink that most unvacumed sand beds become is a primary vector for cyano growth. Especially when you consider cyano growth in tanks where other nuisance algae is not a factor, test indicate pristine water quality and all other solutions are being employed.
For systems where nitrate export of some sort becomes necessary, and given there is room in the sump, I use a remote DSB there. I use open unbaffled sumps. I have found that a tupper ware container as small as 8x8x4 filled with a mixture of fine grain and larger grain sands will function to export nitrates in systems with water volume 100 gal plus. With the DSB resideing in the sump and TW container it can quickly and easily be removed and or replaced or even just cut off from the display by turnin off the return pump.
This provides a safety factor for those that believe a dsb can crash. Personally I have never seen or heard of this happening any ware but on Internet forums.
At any rate this is what has worked for me. Your milage may vary.
well right now i have a hangon type refugium only 14inches long with chaeto what if i put in a deep sand bed in there would it benefit my 75 gallon at all

 

[murph]

It cant hurt but unless you have nitrates over ten for reef or over 40 for FOWLR I wouldn't worry much though.
Make sure to mix up grain size if you decide to add one. It can take up to a month for bed to mature and start to function as a nitrate export. Bed should be at least 4 inches deep. If you google deep sand beds you will find plenty of good info on how they work.

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Murph
It cant hurt but unless you have nitrates over ten for reef or over 40 for FOWLR I wouldn't worry much though.
Make sure to mix up grain size if you decide to add one. It can take up to a month for bed to mature and start to function as a nitrate export. Bed should be at least 4 inches deep. If you google deep sand beds you will find plenty of good info on how they work.
i just got done doing all my weekly tests and my nitrates are 2.5 im in the process of making it a reef tank so i guess its not necessary

 

[murph]

I noticed from your profile that it says 75 gal tank (for now). If your going to go reef or upgrade your probably going to want to add a sump. Spend some time over in the DIY section and you will find all sorts equipment ideas.
Sounds like your probably somewhat mechanically inclined also and if your like me working with plumbing and other equipment aspects can actually become a enjoyable and rewarding part of the hobby.
My latest project, with the help of people over in the DIY section, was drilling out a 75 gal tank for drains and return/flow in an attempt to not have a single piece of visible equipment in the display. Got it down to a single visible power head and couldn't resist going ahead with the rest of the setup.
Next go around I hope to be a little more patient a figure a way to eliminate even that powerhead.

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Murph
I noticed from your profile that it says 75 gal tank (for now). If your going to go reef or upgrade your probably going to want to add a sump. Spend some time over in the DIY section and you will find all sorts equipment ideas.
Sounds like your probably somewhat mechanically inclined also and if your like me working with plumbing and other equipment aspects can actually become a enjoyable and rewarding part of the hobby.
My latest project, with the help of people over in the DIY section, was drilling out a 75 gal tank for drains and return/flow in an attempt to not have a single piece of visible equipment in the display. Got it down to a single visible power head and couldn't resist going ahead with the rest of the setup.
Next go around I hope to be a little more patient a figure a way to eliminate even that powerhead.
i would love to have a sump better yet make one my self because with harder work comes better satisfaction but ive heard horror stories of sumps and over flowing and im really i mean really worried about that
maybe if it was in my basement not so much but its not even close to being finished its upstairs in my dinning room now and if it over flowed holly crap that would suck!

 

[mrinelfrlz]

anyone got any plans or know where i can get some plans on making my own sump/refugium
i just got done pricing pre made ones not near functional or cheap as DIY type
and is there something you can do about not getting overflowed sump after a power outage?
i live in the country and we have power outs all the time
thanks

 

[murph]

The sump can be just about any container that will reliably hold water. You can even use tupper ware storage containers. When I use these I usually slide one down into another to add a safety factor as they can crack. Probably best to use a spare tank.
I believe it was signguy over in the DIY that advised me to use a cheap dremel to drill holes in the tank. Worked well and was cheaper to buy than a single hang on overflow box. If you drill your drain and return holes at the top of the tank its pretty much fail safe. The bottoms of most tanks are tempered glass so do not attempt to drill there.
This means no siphon to rely on for drainage. The only thing that could leak is the bulk heads and they will not fail outright. If they do leak it will be a vary slow drizzle and can usually be fixed just by tightening down the bulkhead. If the sump is positioned behind the display all plumbing will extend out over the sump so any drips there will fall harmlessly into the sump. The only other concern would be if you extend the return line down toward the bottom of the tank you will need to drill a hole up top for a siphon break.
If you match the return pump to the drains properly there wont even be a need to install the internal surface skimmer boxes you see in reef ready tanks. For example I have two one and a quarter inch drains. A mag 9.5 with about 18 inches of head to consider, fills the display to about and inch over the drains and operation is pretty much silent. I can hear the pump over any water noise. Power can come on and off to its hearts content.
IMO you don't have to get fancy with a bunch of baffling in the sump either. I just use as large and open a sump as I can match to the display.
cost break down.
Two large TW storage containers. 20 bucks
Two 1 and quarter inch drain bulk heads 20 bucks
One 3/4 return line bulk head (if you want to drill for return; not necessary) 10 bucks
Knock off brand dremel at harbour freight that will included needed bits 25 bucks.
compare that to a single 600 GPH hang on overflow that will ugly up the display and be siphon dependent at 65 to 85 bucks and you will most likely need two of them or one rated at 1200 gph for a 75 gal tank which means more $$.
Of course a return pump also but that will be needed no matter what route you go. I will try to add some pics of my set up to the thread. Just have to figure out where I put the camera and the usb cable

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Murph
The sump can be just about any container that will reliably hold water. You can even use tupper ware storage containers. When I use these I usually slide one down into another to add a safety factor as they can crack. Probably best to use a spare tank.
I believe it was signguy over in the DIY that advised me to use a cheap dremel to drill holes in the tank. Worked well and was cheaper to buy than a single hang on overflow box. If you drill your drain and return holes at the top of the tank its pretty much fail safe. The bottoms of most tanks are tempered glass so do not attempt to drill there.
This means no siphon to rely on for drainage. The only thing that could leak is the bulk heads and they will not fail outright. If they do leak it will be a vary slow drizzle and can usually be fixed just by tightening down the bulkhead. If the sump is positioned behind the display all plumbing will extend out over the sump so any drips there will fall harmlessly into the sump. The only other concern would be if you extend the return line down toward the bottom of the tank you will need to drill a hole up top for a siphon break.
If you match the return pump to the drains properly there wont even be a need to install the internal surface skimmer boxes you see in reef ready tanks. For example I have two one and a quarter inch drains. A mag 9.5 with about 18 inches of head to consider, fills the display to about and inch over the drains and operation is pretty much silent. I can hear the pump over any water noise. Power can come on and off to its hearts content.
IMO you don't have to get fancy with a bunch of baffling in the sump either. I just use as large and open a sump as I can match to the display.
well you got me thinking

so i started another thread about ideas on a sump/refug
only thing i wont drill my tank besides i have alot of life in mine already and dont want to break it down
besides fear of breaking my glass
also didi a lot of reading last night whole bunch of threads
thinking about 20-30 gallon for my possible future project
just need alot more info anymore you have will be appreciated
thanks

if you want to help more please
you can go here
besides i put my specs on my cabinet there (the room i have)
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/272170/thinking-about-taking-the-plunge#post_2141849