Lots of questions for new project

jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Let me apologize now for this thread being so long. I am starting to gather equipment for my new setup and would like to things right the first time.
First let me tell you about my planned setup. It is a 240g 96"x36"x16"h. It will have a 100g rubbermaid sump. It will be setup as a shallow reef (mainly sps). It will have it's own half of the basement with one side being exposed through a wall (in wall).
Now with some of the questions.
1. What does everyone put down under the tank between the tank and the stand and where to get it?
2. Lighting I am planning on 3-250w mh with lumenarc III reflectors with vho supplement. Only 90 inches of the tank need to be lighted as 6 inches are the overflow. My thinking is I should be able to cover 30" of tank with these large reflectors plus it will help with the width. What do you think?
3. I have included a pic of my overflow. My question is what would be the best way to plump this. It has 4-1 3/4" holes (1" bulkhead) across the back and 1-1 3/4" on the bottom (1" bulkhead). The person I got it from used all 4 holes along the back to drain and used a large pool pump to return it through the hole one the bottom. He said it was able to handle something like 5400 gph. My plan was to use one to feed my skimmer (with ball valve) and drain the other 3 to the sump. Then use a 2000-3000 gph pump to return (any suggestions for a pump would be great). What do you think.
4. I am thinking a deltec skimmer, are there any other little cheaper alternatives?
Any help on any of the above would be great.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Posted the pic for you, that is a beautiful daughter (?) you have there. That is a huge tank you have there!!!!

 
brandan

brandan

Member
1. Not sure, some type of foam.
2. Lighting sounds good to me. 150s or 175s might be ok with it only being 16" tall.
3. Personally I would do only about 1500GPH on the return pump. If you want extra flow in the display tank, then do a Closed Loop pump, or powerheads. A return pump is not used for flow, a return pump is used to return water from the sump, to the display tank. You need somewhere between 5-7x turnover through your sump, pending on size.
As for the overflow. I would do just what you said, the backs for the drain, then the bottom one for the return. However, you are probably not going to need 4 1" bulkheads for 1500GPH.
4. I have an Octopus skimmer on my 175 Reef, and I love it, I would look into one of those personally.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Originally Posted by Brandan
http:///forum/post/2467017
1. Not sure, some type of foam.
2. Lighting sounds good to me. 150s or 175s might be ok with it only being 16" tall.
3. Personally I would do only about 1500GPH on the return pump. If you want extra flow in the display tank, then do a Closed Loop pump, or powerheads. A return pump is not used for flow, a return pump is used to return water from the sump, to the display tank. You need somewhere between 5-7x turnover through your sump, pending on size.
As for the overflow. I would do just what you said, the backs for the drain, then the bottom one for the return. However, you are probably not going to need 4 1" bulkheads for 1500GPH.
4. I have an Octopus skimmer on my 175 Reef, and I love it, I would look into one of those personally.
Cool thanks for the help.
What does everyone think about using this skimmer?http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1014
Keep the ideas coming people.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Fom insulation board, you can get it a Lowes, Home Depot etc.1/2 in is good enough.
You want IMO, 10X flow through the sump, and the return pump is included in your flow, why wouldn't it be? I'd look for something in the range of 3000 GPH return pump.
Use all 4 of the 1in for drains. I'd do a manifold with the return line. I dont see where the 5th hole is, I think cutie there is standing in front of it.
Being as it's acrylic, I'd look at drilling a few more holes for the return. Split it up to like 4 different returns. The octopuss skimmers are pretty good for thet're price from what I've seen.
Nice tank BTW!
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2467089
Fom insulation board, you can get it a Lowes, Home Depot etc.1/2 in is good enough.
You want IMO, 10X flow through the sump, and the return pump is included in your flow, why wouldn't it be? I'd look for something in the range of 3000 GPH return pump.
Use all 4 of the 1in for drains. I'd do a manifold with the return line. I dont see where the 5th hole is, I think cutie there is standing in front of it.
Being as it's acrylic, I'd look at drilling a few more holes for the return. Split it up to like 4 different returns. The octopuss skimmers are pretty good for thet're price from what I've seen.
Nice tank BTW!

Thanks for the help on the insulation board.
You say 10x flow through the sump. I am using a rubbermaid 100g stock tank. That would be more like 1000gph correct. I am looking to get atleast 30x flow through the display total. Somewhere around 8000 gph is what I am shooting for. I am just trying to see how much of it I should try to get out of my return. I will supplement with powerheads or a closed loop.
The 5th hole is on the bottom of the overflow on the end.
Could you explain more about a manifold.
Keep the help coming people.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Oh by the way I just got home from getting the rubbermaid stock tank. I also just ordered my 250 ballasts. Piece by piece it is slowly coming along. I hope to get a good part of the stand and wall cut out this weekend.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
10x your DT volume through ther fuge.
Basicly this is what I was thinking of for the return from sump, you can just penetrate the tank once and then do all the plumbing. Use as many outlets as you like but 4-6 would probably be best. You should be able to bury it in the sand and let it flow through the rocks.
Then I'd do a wavemaker of some sorts on a closed loop, like anemo did here https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/273000/125gal-tank-project-underway/80#post_2377158
Or you could do a SCWD(squid)
 
brandan

brandan

Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2467089
Fom insulation board, you can get it a Lowes, Home Depot etc.1/2 in is good enough.
You want IMO, 10X flow through the sump, and the return pump is included in your flow, why wouldn't it be? I'd look for something in the range of 3000 GPH return pump.
Use all 4 of the 1in for drains. I'd do a manifold with the return line. I dont see where the 5th hole is, I think cutie there is standing in front of it.
Being as it's acrylic, I'd look at drilling a few more holes for the return. Split it up to like 4 different returns. The octopuss skimmers are pretty good for thet're price from what I've seen.
Nice tank BTW!

You return flow is included in the overall tank turnover, whatt it stated was that the return pump is not used for flow in the display tank.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Originally Posted by Brandan
http:///forum/post/2468914
You return flow is included in the overall tank turnover, whatt it stated was that the return pump is not used for flow in the display tank.
So, whatyour saying is that the flow that returns from the sump, isnt used for flow in the tank? When the return pump creates flow in the tank. This doesnt make any sense at all. Flow is flow. If it's creating water movement, in the DT, it is being used for flow. Why is it then that many people have different forms of diverting/directing the flow returned from sump?
 
brandan

brandan

Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2469469
So, whatyour saying is that the flow that returns from the sump, isnt used for flow in the tank? When the return pump creates flow in the tank. This doesnt make any sense at all. Flow is flow. If it's creating water movement, in the DT, it is being used for flow. Why is it then that many people have different forms of diverting/directing the flow returned from sump?
Wow, you don't get it. . . . . Why do you have to argue with everything????
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Originally Posted by Brandan
This site has EVERYTHING you need to know on sumps, and in particular, information on turnover through a sump. Personally, I trust Marc over anyone else on the forums.

Originally Posted by Brandan
http:///forum/post/2469485
Wow, you don't get it. . . . . Why do you have to argue with everything????

I'm not trying to argue with you, why are you so defensive?
I was expressing my opinion. You sited meleve's site (which was a link your not allowed to post) and stated that none other, including all the incredibly knowledgeable reefers here, as being as trustworthy as he. I disagree. I have seen his site, read just about everything there. He is an advanced reefer, very knowledgeable, I respect him, but NOT the utmost authority as you seem to have it. I'm sure there are those on here, as well as other boards, that would possibly agree, either way. You have your opinion, I have mine, Marc has his, we all have our own. I have 10x turnover in my systems(65 reef and 135 FOWLR) and personally believe the flow could be better through them.
I think I get it very well, I don't however understand why you state that it's not used for flow? When it is flow. I use anything in the DT that moves water as flow in the DT. I run a HOB aquaclear on my 65 for biological filter to set up my QT with when needed. My MAIN purpose of this is to keep a sponge ready. But I also count that in my flow, because it adds movement. Same as the return pump does. Flow is flow.
The idea behind the slower flow through the sump is that it will eliminate more "blowby". Which I agree is something that is somewhat of an issue. The macros can only pick up so much of the nutrients at a time. Same with the skimmer. However, with a large enough fuge compartment, you can have A higher volume of macros in it. Since macros grow at many different points, as opposed to one point or just a few. The larger amounts of cheato means you can pick up more nutrients with higher flow. He's doing a 100 gall, sump, the skimmer is going to take up some of that space, but the return pump will be external. There will be room for a very nice sized refugium in there. The skimmer wont be getting any blowby because its a recirculating type. He will be dumping in an appropriate amount to the skimmer. With enough flow from the drains, he will be able to divert more to it, if so desired, without slowing the flow drastically through the refugium. The skimmer is rated for 800 Gall, with the recommendation of 1.5x the system volume through it, that being the case, 1200 gph would be what it is theoritcally capable of handling. So this is approximately 5x through the skimmer, 5x through the refugium. Even with a flow through design, this IMO is not a problem, the macros pick up what they can, the skimmer picks up what it can, if there is any blowby that doesn't get processed, it will eventually, as the water is being circulated through the sump that much faster. There will be head loss on the return pump, without knowing exactly what sized pipe, bend, fittings outlets, pump etc. hes going to have, threes no real way to calculate the head loss. So while my recommendation for a 3000GPH pump, might have been a little excessive, it would get the 10x flow I suggested. Throttling it back if necessary.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Let's all calm down. I posted to get many different opions. Then I will make the decsion I think will work best. I am planning on using a Sequence Reeflo Dart Pump, rated at 2800 gph@ 4" head, mine will probaly be longer. splilt into 2 return. My skimmer will be external and fed from the overflow. The whole sump will be a fuge with just a small section for the return pump. I will then supplement with powerheads.
If anyone else can add any ideas that would be great.
 
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