Maintaining water parameters in QT?

[itom37]

So I'm battling ich and have decided that I'm going to have to QT everything. How do you maintain water parameters with no active biological filtration? I am guessing it's just frequent water changes.... How frequent? Anyway, I'm going to rip my tank apart tomorrow and get everyone in QT, I'd certainly appreciate some input.

 

[dinogeorge]

Hey man, what sort of biological filtration are you using in your main tank? The reason why I ask is because if you are using a wet/dry, you could remove some of the bio balls, or whatever media you have in there, and use it in your QT tank to kick start the filtration. You can purchase a small canister filter and put the bio balls in it. This way you still have some bio filtration going on.
If that is not possible, then yes, you will need to be prepared to change a lot of water, which may stress out your fish. How many fish do you have and what size are they? If you have really small ones, and you don't overfeed, you may not have a major problem.
Here is one last suggestion. Purchase some live rock, the cheapest you can find. Mix up a bucket of salt water and scrub the heck out of the rock in the salt water. Once you have scrubbed away as much algae and other life as possible, put it in your QT. That will act as your bio filter. Yes, you are going to have a lot of the micro fauna die on it, but the actual bacteria will be fine. You can expect the ammonia levels to go up as you drop your SG, but the bacteria will catch up. Sacrificing the hidden life on a piece of live rock is better than killing your fish. Some people may claim this won’t work, but the bacteria that in live in live rock are exactly the same as those that live in your filtration system. Neither will die under lower SG. Some of the inverts and other critters on the live rock will die, but again it beats having your fish die. Just my opinion.
Good luck man.

 

[itom37]

For my main tank i have a simple carbon filter and a skimmer (both hob). Lots of LR (80ish pounds in 55 gallon). My fish aren't big or terribly messy (2 firefish, 2 small tomato clowns which are already in qt, diamond goby, fairy wrasse, small sailfin tang), but they're going to be cramped in a qt...
Regarding treatment methods... I was planning on using copper. I have heard it's more effective and faster than hypo, and possibly less stressful on fish. What are your opinions? I see a lot about hypo on these forums though, so I'm not sure what's best. How would LR do for filtration with copper? The two clowns are in a 10 gallon tank right now with copper, and seem to be responding well. I know a 10 gallon is entirely too small for the rest of my fish, I'm going to have to buy a larger tank. I was thinking 29 gallons...
All input is appreciated.

 

[dinogeorge]

I have used both copper and hypo. Copper is very effective, but if you are not carefull you can do some long term damage to your fish. Copper is nasty stuff. Plus, some blennys and gobies just flat out die in copper. They just can't take it, even at low levels. So now I only do the Hypo method and it kills the Ick in about the same time as Copper. Most copper treatments suggest 3 weeks, and that is about as long as Hypo takes too. Keep in mind that if you use copper on your live rock, it will become impregnated with it. The copper may remain stable in the rock, but if your ph ever drops, or your temp changes in your tank, the copper can be released back into the tank. If you have any inverts, they will end up dead.
If copper is what you decide to go with, then I would say that you could pull a couple of smaller, less attractive, pieces of your live rock and place them into your QT tank to help your filtration. But you cannot put that rock back in your main tank.
If you choose to use the hypo method, then you can always add the live rock back into your main tank after your fish are better.
If you go with Hypo, do you know how to do it? Beth has a great posting at the top of this forum, or I'll be happy to help you.

 

[itom37]

Yeah I've skimmed over parts of that posting... unfortunately i don't have a good hydrometer (crappy plastic for me thus far). I do have 3 gobies... do you think they'll die in copper? Also, the infection on my sailfin has creeped up quickly, and I'm afraid the slow drop in salinity might not be swift enough relief to save her (although she's eating just fine and doesn't show any symptoms other than the spots on her fins). Is hyposalinity as effective as copper? I only want to do this once! and I will be quarantining from now on!

 

[dinogeorge]

Man, if you don't have a refractometer, you really can't do Hypo. The swing arm models are so inaccurate you could really cause some major problems lowering your salinity.
So it sounds like, for now, Copper is what you may need to do. But listen, people have been using coppers for years and have had good results; me included, so its not like your stuck with some bad option here.
I think your fish will be ok. Just keep an eye on them. I'm a little worried about your firefish because I have never had them in copper and so I don't know what to expect. Hopefully they will be ok too.
Once you get all of your fish into your QT, don't expect the Ick to fall off or dissapear overnight. The copper can't kill them while they are on your fish. You have to wait for the ones on your fish to break open and sink to the bottom of your tank. That is when the copper will kill there sorry butts. Make sure to test your copper levels. I would test for ammonia every day as well. If you have to change a lot of water, you'll need to make sure to add copper each time. This is where a good test kit will keep you from over dosing. Copper is poison and can kill your fish if you add too much.
One other suggestion. Make sure you have a small heater to keep your QT warm enough. If you keep the temp between 78 and 80, you'll actually speed up the incubation process of the Ick and will kill them off that much faster. You should try to keep your fish in the copper for at 14 days, because that is about the life cycle of the Ick. Like I said, while its on your fish you can't kill it. But once its in its free swimming stage....the copper does its job!

 

[itom37]

Awesome, thanks for the tips. I should be getting them in QT this evening.

 

[angelman]

I have found Coppersafe to be a much better way to go.
As a chelated copper, it is more stable.
Another copper that has worked very well for me is also is Copper Power - which is also chelated.
Unless something has changed and there is a new one I am not aware of, you need a kit that tests for chelated also as regular copper kits don't do a good job.
Has already been mentioned about bio.
No reason why you can't have good bio maintaining your QT with copper.
When running a QT, as I have a 55 now, I try to do regular partial water changes and add the copper based on the water removed/added.
Hope this helps.

 

[itom37]

I'm using Copper Power. Glad to know it's a recommended brand (especially by someone with such an incredible stocklist).
Another thing: should I do anything particular to maintain the bacteria in my DT, or will they be ok? I don't want to crash when I am done QTing so many fish b/c the bacteria aren't as plentiful as they are now. I was thinking I'd just add a bit more food than the crabs and shrimp will eat just to keep some waste in there for the friendly microfauna. Anyone else take this into consideration when QTing all their fish?

 

[sepulatian]

There are two ways to go, hypo or curpamine. Do NOT use copper in the display. If you do then you will ruin your tank for anything other than fish. How much LR and inverts do you have? Unless you have corals, you can move everything else, buy a refractometer online, and hypo.

 

[itom37]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
There are two ways to go, hypo or curpamine. Do NOT use copper in the display. If you do then you will ruin your tank for anything other than fish. How much LR and inverts do you have? Unless you have corals, you can move everything else, buy a refractometer online, and hypo.
Already pluggin' away with copper power in a QT, of course. The DT is empty save my LR and corals... looks pretty good though.
Anyway, the sailfin did not make it, she was too far gone... it's a shame. The other fish seem alright. I guess I'll check on the ammonia this afternoon, hopefully this month will go smoothly.

 

[itom37]

Oh... one more thing: what about adding one of those live bacteria products to my QT since it's bio filtration is MINIMAL (one 3 lb piece of ugly LR, I'm planning on a lot of water changes)? Seems like this should do the trick... any thoughts?