Major 125 Gallon Project getting underway...

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mlandrigan

Guest
Here's what's up. My fiance and I just bought a house in May and are getting married July 29th. She can't wait to get our 125 gallon tank set up (very good problem right!). We want to make the tank the centerpiece of the living room have it located with the short end against the wall. I'm planning on using metal halide pendants and hanging them from the ceiling so that I don't have to use a huge canopy.
Right now I'm thinking I can take the plumming through wall and down into the basement where I would have a sump/fuge, protein skimmer, etc. Anybody ever done something like this? Any suggestions? Pump size? Pipe size?
I'm also thinking ahead about water flow. There are holes drilled in the bottom of the tanke for overflow and the return line. I'm thinking I'll need one or several powerheads maybe located in the rock. I'm wondering how to hide the power cords. Has anyone ever tried this and how can I keep the cords hidden since I won't be hiding it behind the tank and against the wall. Plus, since there won't be a canopy to hide cords under.
If anybody has this kind of setup I would love to see some pictures and let me know how you have your setup.
 

bigb

Member
Originally Posted by mlandrigan
1.)Right now I'm thinking I can take the plumming through wall and down into the basement where I would have a sump/fuge, protein skimmer, etc. Anybody ever done something like this? Any suggestions? Pump size? Pipe size?
I'm also thinking ahead about water flow.
2.)I'm thinking I'll need one or several powerheads maybe located in the rock. I'm wondering how to hide the power cords. Has anyone ever tried this and how can I keep the cords hidden since I won't be hiding it behind the tank and against the wall. Plus, since there won't be a canopy to hide cords under.
3.)If anybody has this kind of setup I would love to see some pictures and let me know how you have your setup.
1.) You are talking about pumping water up at least 10-15ft you'll need a very large pump to get the same water movement as one that you would have under your stand. IMO you are better off pumping it up as short a dist as possible
2.) If you get a pump large enough to do the amount of water turn over and circulation that you want, you won't need powerheads.
3.) Good thing to think ahead when I went with the short end against the wall. I didn't leave enough space for plumbing when first started because as a newbie I thought a canister filter was good enough LOL! I'll get some better pics soon.
 
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mlandrigan

Guest
I'm pretty set on having the pump/sump/fuge in the basement so that it is out of the way. This will let me do all my water changes without making a mess on the wood floor or hauling up water in five gallon buckets.
Currently there are two overflow locations that I think I could use to my advantage for getting power cords from additional powerheads. I'm planning on making my own rock and I'm thinking I can make 'caves' to place them in and if I build the rock up around each overflow I don't think anyone will be able to see the cords going down the overflow. Once in the stand, I can pull them out of the plumbing and just seal around the cord. Does anyone have other ideas on how to keep up the flow while hiding any power cords?
 

turningtim

Active Member
mlandrigan, I'm right there w/you! I have 125 that I hope to get started very shortly and want to plumb in the basement. I don't think that the pump issue is that big of a problem (besides cash!). But I was thinking closed loop under the stand to gain flow rather then PH's.
Haven't run all my numbers yet and still thinking about getting the tank drilled or doing myself. How much flow are you thinking? If you haven't already you should look at the "plumbing 101" thread. Lots of knowledge!
 

jasenhicks

Member
Well folks, i have an answer and schematic for everyone. Well I think i do. I applied my Nuclear Power/Engineering Background to the problem and came up with a way for everyone to do this, and make water changes/automatic level simple. Here is the schematic:

First thing is to get the water to the basement, thats simple, just run the PVC through the wall. Use one long piece in the wall, to make sure there arent any joints to leak, etc. Then connect the drain to the PVC using flexi tubing, etc. I would use no less than 1" PVC for the drain. In my example i used a tank that had 2 drains that i would T together to one and then split again at the bottom where the fuge/sump is. Gravity does all the work here folks. At the fuge i split it again, one drain going to the skimmer area, and the other to the fuge area. I install ball valves at the drains to control flow to each, i.e. a little to the fuge and a lot to the skimmer area. At this point its your typical sump/fuge.. water flows from the sump to the return area in the middle and from the fuge area to the return area. Simple.
The return is challenging because you will need no less than 2 good pumps. One near the ceiling of the basement and one in the sump. The one in the sump needs to put at least 10X your tank size in flow at the height of the ceiling in the basement. I.E. if you have a 125GAL tank, it needs 1250 gallons at say 8 ft. This pumps sole purpose is to provide Net Positive Suction Head to the second pump at the ceiling of the basement. Net Positive Suction Head is the water required to make the pump work, thats as technical as ill get here. The second pump should be mounted very high in the basment, on a strong shelf or something. This pump will actually push the water into the tank. This pump needs to be like 12X the flow rate at a height from the pump to the tank, i say 6ft to be safe. As explained above to account for head loss in the SCWD (explained later) and for headloss in the return nozzles. After the second pump there should be a ball valve inline to help control water flow back into the tank, in case the pump puts out a little more than the tank drains. After the valve close to the returns at the display tank, i recommend a Switching Current Water Director, or SCWD. This will at random intervals switch returns back and forth creating a good strong current and eliminating the needs for power heads in the tank. I love these things, and they work really great too. Thats it for the returns.
But now you ask, whats the WASTE WATER LINE coming after the first pump. Great question, that is a line to make water changes SIMPLE. Basically there are two valves, the fist one you fully open and the other you throttle open. The pressure at the outlet of the first pump will push water out of this line and drain water from the whole system to a sink drain or bucket etc. No more need for siphons, and the system can stay on the whole time! You will probably want to shut the second pump off when water quits draining from the display tank so you dont cavitate or damage the pump. When you drain enough water out, you shut the valves. Then add saltwater as appropriate, and start the pumps again.
Now look at the RO/DI resevior thats connected. Thats a source of make up water for evaporation. It uses a kent marine mechanical float valve and the weight of water to refill the sump. As level lowers due to evaporation the valve floats down, opening the valve allowing RO/DI water to flow in from the resevoir to the sump keeping level constant and therfore salinity constant. The RO/DI unit also uses the kent mechanical valve to keep level in the resevoir constant too... works on the sampe principle. Now you have to pin the valve in the sump in shut when doing a water change, but it will be right there next to the other valves you operate to do it, so no big deal.
This is just one way to do this, i think you can come up with a thousand ways to do it, but this is my way.
 

turningtim

Active Member
Looks about right! But I don't see the need for 2 pumps. I think a good external pump will be more than enough to deal with head and flow. I'm planning 12x from my sump and the rest from a CL.
 

jasenhicks

Member
It indeed can be done with one pump, but it probably is more cost efective to do a 2 pump system. At some point pumps just get way too expensive and scarce. I was going to add that i would mount the sump/fuge about 2 ft off the ground on a "stand" with a drain pipe to an external IWAKI pump or a POOL pump as the fist pump, it would unclutter the return area and make everything a bit cooler looking if i may, but also a bit louder... but who cares, its in the basement!
 

jasenhicks

Member
For pipe size, i would go with as big down as you can, and an inch or inch and a half up... it would really depend on the pump you picked, i.e. just go with the outlet size of the pump that will usually "do the trick" as they say.
 

jasenhicks

Member
I should have thought of this too... for the sump fuge, GARFdotORG has a great DIY fishtank you can build out of plywood.... make the fuge out of that! Save some serious cash and you can make it as big as possible.... plus you really dont need to look IN the fuge from the front, just the top.... so no need for glass... just 5 sides and the baffles made out of acrylic thats siliconed in! AND ITS A GREAT DIY PROJECT!!!! THIS WHOLE THING IS!!!! MAKE IT ALL YOURSELF!!!! (excpet pumps they kind of need to be made by someone else!)
 

turningtim

Active Member
Hey how's the project going? How much flow are you thinking about? I haven't even started yet (cash flow) but I was looking at Iwaki or a big mag. But I'm sure there are many to choose from. Are you going external? Would love to see pics!
Tim
 
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mlandrigan

Guest
Ok, I finally have some updates...
I've purchased a Kent Marine RO/DI unit and have it up and running. I've decided to go with the GenX PCX-40 external pump. Looks like it should give me somewhere around 800 gph with 12' of head. Since I'm going with FOWLR I don't think I need to have overpowering flow. Plus I will have two powerheads involved so there will be some additional flow.
For the lighting system, I bought 3 48 in. light fixtures that will have 3 10k bulbs and 3 actinic. Since the tank is 72 in. long, I'm going to stager the lights. A lot of research by GARF suggests that even with softies and some corals this would be enough light, especially if placed close to the surface. With this setup I should get the lighting all accomplished for around $100.
With the extra space I am going to run an electrical line up through a bulkhead in the bottom of the tank, through pvc, and up to 2 gfi outlets in the canopy. This way I can plug in the lights, powerheads and LED system.
 
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mlandrigan

Guest
Ok, my next question is regarding sand and agarocrete which I think some of you are probably familiar with.
I know there is a lot of conflicting advice/info about using the cheap play sand from the hardware store. There is an argument for whether silica based sand vs. silicates are bad. I believe in the former and that it is not a problem. The other argument against it is that it doesn't have the same buffering capability as aragonite sand. I need the sand for aragocrete rock and for the sand bed (both in the display and refugium). So, here is what I am thinking:
In an effort to save some serious cash I'm going to make my own rock in the near future. I know your setup is to use CaribSea aragonate. However I would rather not use this due to its costliness.
I am going to mix regular tropical play sand with crushed oyster shells and the portland cement for the aragocrete. From what I've been reading, the play sand's main downfall is in its lack of a buffering capacity. To compansate this I think having a deep sea bed in my refugium with a thick layer of crushed oyster shells (not sure if mixed or under a layer of sand) will work. How do you feel about this? With this setup I won't have to find a calcium carbonate based substrate but will still have a buffering capacity. I suppose that I could even have the water pass through a layer of crushed oyster shells similar to the bioball theory to possibly increase its buffering capability.
What do you all think about this?
Matt
 
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mlandrigan

Guest
Ok, I finally have things up and running. Here is a link to some pictures.
http://www.nd.edu/~mlandrig/Fish_Tank/
I have three green chromis in there right now and have been in for about a week and a half now and are doing great. I know that things are really empty. I am doing 100% DIY agrocrete rock and am just going to wait until spring to make a bunch up and let it cure outside.
 
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mlandrigan

Guest
Yeah, the pump is in the basement. I figure there is about 11 feet of head after all the connections and piping is figured in. It's definitely not the most ideal pump because it is fairly loud and with wood floors it transmits through kinda easily. It is really nice as far as being out of the way is concerned! And, it is easy to do water changes from the basement.
 
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