mandarin dragonette problem!~

[fishieness]

hello guys. Ive been posting a lot here, but i have a lot of questions. Ok, today i got a mandarin psycodelic dragonette who is only about an inch-1.5 incehs long. My lfs said he would do fine with only about 10 pounds of live rock. He was currently living in a 10 gallon tank with only a few pounds. I also got 8 pounds of live rock. Then in another one of my posts asking about puffers, gilpil told me that i would need a 75 gallon tank with 100+ of live rock. My tank is only 30 gallons and hes sharing it with a coral beuty angel, a very small snowflake eel, a tomoato clown, and an orange spotted gobie!!!
What do i do?!!:help: Also on this site it says they will eat blood worms... how do i go about doing this?

 

[fishieness]

poo, this is definatly in the wrong forum...

 

[bang guy]

You've been moved_
You'll get better answers here

 

[humuhumu]

Mandarins tend to starve to death unless they are placed in a well established tank with lots of pods for them to eat.

 

[audisteve]

Take it back, this hobby is not about buying the prettiest fish but about recreating a natural habitat, they need at least 75pounds of live rock and a well establised tank. Sorry to be harsh but do your research before you buy.

 

[ophiura]

Find a new LFS.
Have you seen your mandarin interested in anything like brine (especially some live brine) or even frozen? What were they feeding it at the LFS? It is hit or miss getting mandarin to eat prepared foods.
IMO, without a lot of LR and a refugium you are out of luck unless it will eat brine (which needs to be soaked in zoe, selcon, or even some sort of liquid food to improve their nutritional value).

 

[calvoley]

I have had my mandrin for a year and a half now and it love enrichrd frozen brine. It knows when it is feeding time and gobbles it up

 

[fishieness]

ive seen him pick at some of the frozen things ive been feeding my other fish, so that must have been why hes done well with such little live rock at the LFS. I am goign to set up maybe a 12 gallon refugium to grow pods soon though.

 

[edwar050]

there is a strong chance that your mandarin is starving to death. There is a high correlation between brine and mandarins although many require pods for survival. How long has your tank been set up? You need as much LR as you can get in a 29, good skimmer and sump. My tank has near 100# LR in a 55 with pods and I wouldn't consider getting a mandarin becasue I don't have a sump.

 

[farslayer]

I'll just chime in long enough to agree. Get away from your LFS and take that mandarin to someone who can keep him.

 

[blemmy_guy]

Lets all back up a second, some LFS wont take it back, she said she was going to build a small sump, maybe to raise pods in, Calvoley has had one for a while and he gave her an idea of what to feed it, and his has done good, instead of telling her to get rid of it, which she may not be able to do, why dont we help her make it as healthy as we can with some good ideas on how to do that with what she has, Calvoley and Ophiura have tried to help. everyone else just pretty much griping at her. We cant all have 125 gal. tanks, and if your willing to work at it , you can make it work in a smaller tank, it just takes some effort. So I for one think its an awesome fish and hope nothing but the best for her . I wish i had more ideas on how to feed it, but cal, and ophiura have given 2 great ideas. so best wishes to ya. Todd

 

[farslayer]

I don't think anyone is griping, just pointing out that the tank is not considered sufficient to house a mandarin. These fish do not ask to be put into captivity, they are living creatures which would do better in the wild anyway. We put them into captivity as pets, the absolute very least we can do is respect them enough to put them into an environment in which they can thrive as much as possible. Now I'm not flaming or anything like that, I'm only pointing out that this animal is in an inappropriate environment. It may very well take to frozen foods, but why take this risk? Why starve the little guy when he could be given to someone with a massive tank and plenty of food to eat. No one is jumping all over this person, they simply didn't know about the requirements of this animal. It would be best left to another tank of sufficient size. My LFS will not sell mandarins, yellow tangs, hippos or any other special care creature and they have taken several of these in from people unable to care for them. The fellow has been doing this for 30 years and is very compassionate towards the livestock. Again, not flaming or yelling, but I don't think you "try" a fish in an environment that is not suited for it simply because you want one.

 

[msd2]

Interesting thread thats totally off topic, lol. I have to agree with Farslayer on this one though. I realize we cant all have 120 gallon tanks but that doesnt justify causing undue stress on an animal because 1. we put our own selfish desires first, or 2. we don't bother to do the background research. I have to say this topic irks me quite a bite. You may very well call this griping but I am okay with that if it helps out a few animals. Any research at all would of revealed that this fish mostly consumes live pods. Might you get lucky and the fish accept brine shrimp, sure I will agree to that, but should you put a fish in a tank 10x smaller than needed to support him and force him to eat something artifical? A check in any reference book would of yielded important info about this fish, or even a search on here would of also given the same info. A fish, just like any animal is dependent on you for its needs, and its your responsiblity to assume them once you take it home. It would be the same as if I went and got a 120lb dog set him free in my 950 sq ft loft and served him cat food. So a solution to your current problem would be to try and feed him a variety of different foods, if he accepts one of them consider yourself lucky and a lesson learned. If he doesnt take him back to the store, for free if necessary. I have never heard of a lfs not accepting free fish.

 

[jtutton]

I generally agree that mandarins shouldn't be sold to people that are unaware of the care needed. I just got one a couple weeks ago, but I purchased it from a LFS that didn't have anything to feed it. I am in the process of creating a sump for my 46 bowfront. I have about 55# LR and LS right now. So far, so good, but I am willing to retrofit to provide an appropriate source of food for him. I am going to try and train him to take frozen brine and/or pellets, but that will only be to supplement his diet.
I couldn't let him die there, but I was educated enough to know that I need to accommodate his needs.
If this person is willing to do that, then more power to them.
Just my $.02

 

[blemmy_guy]

Thanx, thats really all i was trying to say, i was just a little too long winded about it! Todd

 

[fishieness]

hey guys, i brought him back today for store credit. Thanks a bunch for your input!

 

[edwar050]

i 2nd msd2 fishieness, how long has your tank been set up? Do you have alot of LR? If you get a little bigger tank, possibly a 55 with sump and lots of LR and get some pods going, you could probably keep a mandarin one day. Probably better to take it back. I have a friend that just lost three mandarins, they caught a weird disease, all in different 75gallon reefs. Hes got around 1,000 gallons under his care and his tanks have been set up for about 10 years. Hes got all kinds of cool stuff like RBTA's. I was really suprised when the mandarins bit the dust, one of them was given to him by me, I made the same mistake of picking up a red/green mandarin dragonet and therefore took it to him. It pisses me off how my LFS sales them all the time in there 10 gallons w 1 piece of LR. I have seen them get three in at a time, remember this is in tuscaloosa alabama, not the swf capital of the world, I know only three or four reefers in the whole city. I bet the survial rate is 10% I have heard some horror stories.

 

[fishieness]

i have one more question regarding this, i just got some brine shrimp eggs. It was said earlier that they might eat frozen brine shrimp, would they be more likly to eat live ones? I dont think i will get one for quite a while and in a larger tank, but i was jsut curious

 

[fishphreak]

I was thinking about getting a green mandarin and all of you have brought up some interesting points. So I guess you are the people to ask to get the most honest response.
I have a 1 year old 29 gallon tank that I am upgrading to a 75 but only have about 40lbs of live rock. Would that be enough for a mandarin?
I plan on getting about 60 more pounds or so of LR, so that would give me about 100lbs or so in a 75. Would that be sufficient for a green mandarin? I really want one but ONLY if I have the proper environment for him/her.
I hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in this post but I really don't want to end up with a fish that I can not properly care for.
Thanks so much,
Jessica

 

[ophiura]

IMO, since you know its coming, I would wait for the 75 - let it mature awhile (few months at least), and then, IMO, you would be good for a mandarin. It is best not to rush it.
As for the brine question...they are more likely, but not guaranteed to start eating live brine over frozen. But many won't even eat the brine. Takes patience, and I reckon some luck, to get that to work.