mandarin

[eoalulavis]

My sisters boyfriend against my advice has purchased a mandarin for his new aquarium he has just setup. I believe he has a couple of emerald crabs and maybe some snails w/ live rock. His setup has been running now for maybe a month. His arguement is that everything is stable and there is tons of copepods in his aquarium. Anyone else care to weigh in on this debate.

 

[sebae09]

A couple of months is not long enough to get a big enough pod count for a mandrain. How big is the tank? how many pounds of LR? did he use dry or LS? all those things come into play when it comes to a mandrain. Let me get this right he got one of the hardist fish to keep for his very first fish? He realy should have taken your advice.

 

[promisetbg]

Emerald crabs eat copepods too. I doubt he has enough or may not have any copepods. "Pods" are often misidentified. Most of what you see is amphipods, not copepods. Copepods are very hard to see, they are specs.

 

[fishgeek01]

Not To Mention That The Poplulations Of Those Little Creatures Will Fluctuate Quite A Bit In The First 6 Months Or So, Some Species Will Start To Out Compete Others, Until They Have Reached A Balance, That Is Why A Mature Reef Is Needed, Not To Mention That The Population Is Not Mature Just Like Sebae09 Said. I Think He May Have Made A Mistake By Not Going With Your Advice, However A Side Note, I Advised A Buddy Of Mine Against It And He Got One, His Tank Had Been Set Up About 2 Months, Not Long Enough In My Opinion, But He Got Lucky And His Will Eat Frozen Mysis And Brine Shrimp. He Also Has A Scooter Blenny (different Tank) That Eats Frozen Brine Mysis, And Bloodworms Beleive It Or Not... So Maybe Your Sisters Boyfreind Will Get Lucky To And Not Kill An Innocent Animal This Time Lets All Hope So Anyways

 

[fishgeek01]

And If I Sound A Little Harsh The Mandarin Is One Of My Favorite Fish Due To Its Habits And Difficulty So I Take The Topic Pretty Seriously

 

[eoalulavis]

yep i couldn't agree more w/ you guys thanks

 

[fishgeek01]

no prob...

 

[bojik]

Originally Posted by Fishgeek01
Not To Mention That The Poplulations Of Those Little Creatures Will Fluctuate Quite A Bit In The First 6 Months Or So, Some Species Will Start To Out Compete Others, Until They Have Reached A Balance, That Is Why A Mature Reef Is Needed, Not To Mention That The Population Is Not Mature Just Like Sebae09 Said. I Think He May Have Made A Mistake By Not Going With Your Advice, However A Side Note, I Advised A Buddy Of Mine Against It And He Got One, His Tank Had Been Set Up About 2 Months, Not Long Enough In My Opinion, But He Got Lucky And His Will Eat Frozen Mysis And Brine Shrimp. He Also Has A Scooter Blenny (different Tank) That Eats Frozen Brine Mysis, And Bloodworms Beleive It Or Not... So Maybe Your Sisters Boyfreind Will Get Lucky To And Not Kill An Innocent Animal This Time Lets All Hope So Anyways
Many of the mandarians in the LFS' in my area already eat frozen foods. I've even seen a scooter go after and haul away a peice of frozen squid to munch on. It was amusing to watch. I kept a mandarain for a good time healthily in a small tank. [before filter malfunction and tank crash

] Though i seeded (in adtiton to letting it cycle and stabalise several months prior) additional pods into the tank. ~2k of them. As well as occasinaly seeing, what i beleive to be, gammus (spelling?) off the filters at a LFS in my area. That and before the tank crashed she was eating Frozen brine shrimp too. Was amusing she went after a bit stuck in a current eddy and not long after decided it was all edible. She was eaven taking to eating stuff off the sand etc that wasn't moving.
Tell him to regularly buy pods offline to seed into the tank for a while. OR to take the mandarain back.

 

[fishygurl]

tell him to get tigger pods for his mandarin if he wants any hope for it to live and i agree that the aquarium is not stable enough yet

 

[promisetbg]

Tigger pods do not do well in our tanks for long...they are too warm. They are also quite large and are cannibalistic. Get them from Adelaide at Ocean Pods.

 

[murph]

I have kept a green mandarin in a 30 gal tank for several months now and am personally acquainted with others who have also done this. In all cases not only did the mandarin live but gained noticeable weight from its condition when bought at the LFS.
There a few things I would consider must haves for this to work. First a deep live sand bed and mature rock from an established system to start the tank and a ball of established cheato macroalgae in the display tank and most importantly time and an honest effort to ween the fish to frozen foods. This usually means frozen mysid.
Mandarins natural diet is copepods and these guys are tiny. Small as the period at the end of this sentence but with a good magnifying glass they should be visible crawling on the glass in even relatively young systems. If you look in the HH ID thread under copepodes and amphipods these are the third pic down and the guy must have had one hell of a camera to get a photo like that. These guys are like roaches. If you see one you have a hundred more you dont.
In the case of my 30 gal, copepod population has noticeably increased despite the presence of the mandarin. This is most likely due to the cheato ball in the tank that provides a place for them to avoid predation and breed and the DSB. This is why I consider these must haves. May also have something to do with the fact that my particular mandrin was pretty quick to start filling up on frozen mysis thus easing the pressure on the copepod population.
All the mandarins I have dealt with were quick to take live brine. From here its just a matter of mixing enriched live brine with frozen mysis and several feedings a day. A large cleanup crew and more frequent water changes will be necessary due to this heavy feeding routine.
IMO it also helps to have another peaceful tank mate but not one who shares there pod diet to "show" them that frozen mysis is a food item. An inexpensive firefish does quite well for this.
After it is noticed that the mandarin starts taking the frozen mysis, and IMO most will, it just a matter of cutting back the amount of brine shrimp and carefully monitoring the fishes condition. Other prepared food items can also be tried.
Hopefully all of these conditions have been met in your friends tank or he may be looking at a rocky road.
My personal success rate at this has been 100 percent. Your mileage may vary.

 

[mavis1032]

Murph,
Please explain what a "Cheeto Ball" is.

 

[murph]

cheato is a macroalgea like calupra (sp) but unlike calupra it will not attache itself to rock and become a problem with removal. You might find a pic of it if you use the search function. Looks more or less like a ball of green moss and in most cases will come with quite a bit of micro fauna living inside.
Added benefit is nitrate and phosphate removal which it uses for growth. Most people use it in there fuges for just this purpose.
Mandarins will also eat newly hatched live mysid shrimp. In most established tanks this hatch occurs in intervals 3 or 4 times a month. They are attracted to light so if you can find someone with an established tank it is quite easy to shine a pen light into the tank and they will gather in large number if you hit the right night and can be easily siphoned off to seed another tank. It is also likely they will come with store bought balls of cheato.
In tanks with mandarins allow the natural ambient light of the room to creep in with normal light from sunrise before tank lights go on. This will allow the mandarin to hunt mysid and other nocturnal micro fauna before they are driven into there daytime hide outs with bright tank lighting. You will likely find that the mandarin is first in the tank to start moving, beginning hunting activities as soon as there is enough light for the fish to see.
Same scenario can be duplicated at sunset.

 

[nygel]

i'm setting up a 29 (setup already actually) and i'm basing it around a mandarin (it will have many other tank mates though) and i was going to (instead of using cheato) hide some small pvc in the back for it to breed/live. I've seen this work too, just figured i'd point that out. And the 29 is an upgrade of a well established 10 (packed with rock, literally) and a decently dsb as well.

 

[nasovlam]

Congrats to you guys who have been able to wean mandarins to frozen food. I had one for a couple of years or so in my 90 but it would never give frozen food a second look. It stayed fat & healthy on pods from the tank. Obviously no guarantees that you'll persuade your mandarin to switch to frozen. Definitely not wise to try one in anything less than a well established reef tank.

 

[eoalulavis]

would it still get the proper dietary nurishment from eating frozen brine?

 

[xdave]

Accepting frozen brine shrimp and surviving (I prefer my fish flourishing) on it are 2 different things. You'd have more luck with frozen invert food most likely. It should be a lot closer to thier actual diet.

 

[murph]

Quality frozen brine is enriched prior to the freezing process and if that is what you mandarin prefers it is quite likely you will have him with you for many years to come. In fact well nourished mandarins are incredibly resistant to parasites, common diseases and water quality problems.
Once established and feeding it will most likely be one of the most worry free specimens in the tank and the specimen most likely to survive other disasters like day long power outages or radical temperature swings.
Don't get me wrong; dedication to establishing this fish in the system is crucial in the first months and failure is a possibility.