Marilyn Manson
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jal1639
Member
Originally posted by pwnag3!!
actually i was banned for other reasons....
oh and periods dont go between Question marks.
hey jal.... thanks for the definition of ignorant.... that just fortifies my point.
You said that ignorance is bliss. I have been exposed to mason. Therefore I am not ignorant.
You did not answer my question, does he still piss on his fans??
T
tizzo
Guest
This is gonna sound wierd but I am gonna post it anyway...
I respect Manson's perspective. It's what he chooses, and he has obviously thought it out and came to a conclusion that suits his needs best in his opinion. At first I really disliked him but when I hear him on interviews, I have to give the man credit... Sure, he's a satanic pastor. But how does that affect me?? He made a very valid point once, which was the source of my respect for him. He said, "Yes, I worship Satan and I am an ordained minister in the satanic church. But you will never see me trying to force my religion down everybodies throats trying to convert them. You will never see me picketing in front of a Christian concert".
I believe that a Christian should answer questions if somebody asks them, but I do not believe that they have the right to parade around screaming how everybody is going to hell...yeah, that'll win 'em over.
I don't know Manson's music, don't think I ever heard it, don't care to. But as a person, I have to respect his perspective...because he respects mine...and I am a Christian.
I respect Manson's perspective. It's what he chooses, and he has obviously thought it out and came to a conclusion that suits his needs best in his opinion. At first I really disliked him but when I hear him on interviews, I have to give the man credit... Sure, he's a satanic pastor. But how does that affect me?? He made a very valid point once, which was the source of my respect for him. He said, "Yes, I worship Satan and I am an ordained minister in the satanic church. But you will never see me trying to force my religion down everybodies throats trying to convert them. You will never see me picketing in front of a Christian concert".
I believe that a Christian should answer questions if somebody asks them, but I do not believe that they have the right to parade around screaming how everybody is going to hell...yeah, that'll win 'em over.
I don't know Manson's music, don't think I ever heard it, don't care to. But as a person, I have to respect his perspective...because he respects mine...and I am a Christian.
D
daniel411
Guest
Tizzo,
That was very well said.
That was very well said.
Tizzo, you took the words out of my mouth. I don't know too much about Manson but I have heard the music. I don't like it. It gives me a headache, and he is not the best looking guy I ever saw either, but I have heard him in interviews and he does not present as Satan incarnate when he talks. I think the whole "Satan" thing is used to shock. He himself describes himself as a atheist--believing in neither God or Devil. He is definately messed up, surely due some childhood trauma centered around religion. I see a lot of kids like him, not as famous. They're not devils.
Time for adults to listen, rather than throw stones. Just my 02cent.
Time for adults to listen, rather than throw stones. Just my 02cent.
hagfish
Active Member
Nobody's throwing stones. If the man was sitting in front of me asking questions about religion right now I'd answer him and try to help him understand. The "satan thing" is not used as shock, it's not an act. He actually is a satanic minister and became so before he was popular.
I'm not one of the people with a sign saying you're all going to hell outside one of his concerts. I do protest silently by not buying his music (any more) and having thrown what I did have from him away long ago.
Brit0211, what of Christianity would you consider a lie?
I'm not one of the people with a sign saying you're all going to hell outside one of his concerts. I do protest silently by not buying his music (any more) and having thrown what I did have from him away long ago.
Brit0211, what of Christianity would you consider a lie?
tony detroit
Active Member
I believe some music is borderline on the same level with brainwashing.
I'm not blaming everything on Manson, but I PROMISE you this: He plays a direct roll in destruction and pure evil.
I'm not blaming everything on Manson, but I PROMISE you this: He plays a direct roll in destruction and pure evil.
Hagfish, I am certainly no Manson satanic expert, nor do I want to be, but I believe the “satanic” thing that Manson is involved with is not the same as the Judeo-Christian concept of what “satanic” means. They are 2 different things, as far as what I know. To you, Christians and most other folks, Satanist are worshipers of an entity that stand for and perpetuates evil. Satan is a living entity whose followers do his evil bidding. To Manson and the Satanist group he belongs to, atheism is their belief. The only “entity” is humanity. There is no God, no Devil. Anyway, Manson fans correct me if I’m wrong. To me, I see a difference between Devil worship and atheism. This group choose to call themselves Satanist; likely to attract attention and be attractive to younger people who don’t fall within the “norms” of acceptable beliefs and behaviors.
As far as the brainwashing concept is concerned, yeah, I think young people are very susceptible to music, movies, videos, games, friends, popular heros, popular anti-heros, etc. That is why it is so important for PARENTS to play a significant role in raising their kids, instilling values, listening to them and caring about what interest them, teaching them, setting an example.
As far as the brainwashing concept is concerned, yeah, I think young people are very susceptible to music, movies, videos, games, friends, popular heros, popular anti-heros, etc. That is why it is so important for PARENTS to play a significant role in raising their kids, instilling values, listening to them and caring about what interest them, teaching them, setting an example.
pwnag3!!
Member
I have been listening to metal and playing violent video games since i was 10.
I chose to be atheist on my own. I did not let music influence my life. I am a well adjusted individual. I have kept a good paying job for 3 years now and I am quickly moving up in the company ladder. i have many friends.... christians and not. I have a loving girlfriend who supports me. Although she does not like the music i listen to it does not matter. She will never think that i "Worship the devil" or that i am a baby killer.
I just like to cause trouble. I like getting a rise out of people and arguing with them. That does not mean that manson or white zombie or any other "questionable " bands have any influence on the way i act or think....
remember people....
ITS JUST MUSIC...THE MORE THAT PEOPLE HATE IT AND TRY TO BAN IT.....THE MORE KIDS ARE GOING TO ENJOY IT.
I chose to be atheist on my own. I did not let music influence my life. I am a well adjusted individual. I have kept a good paying job for 3 years now and I am quickly moving up in the company ladder. i have many friends.... christians and not. I have a loving girlfriend who supports me. Although she does not like the music i listen to it does not matter. She will never think that i "Worship the devil" or that i am a baby killer.
I just like to cause trouble. I like getting a rise out of people and arguing with them. That does not mean that manson or white zombie or any other "questionable " bands have any influence on the way i act or think....
remember people....
ITS JUST MUSIC...THE MORE THAT PEOPLE HATE IT AND TRY TO BAN IT.....THE MORE KIDS ARE GOING TO ENJOY IT.
hagfish
Active Member
Beth, I believe these quotes from Manson show that he does believe that there is an entity called satan and God.
“I believe I am God... I dreamt I was the Antichrist, and I believe it.”
“Near the end of our visit, he said, ‘I want to make you a Reverend,’ and gave me a crimson card certifying me as a minister in the Church of Satan…It was also LaVey’s way of passing down the torch…As I left, LaVey put a bony hand on my shoulder, and, as it lay there coldly, he said, ‘You’re gonna make a big dent. You’re going to make an impression on the world.” (The Long Hard Road out of Hell, p. 170-171)
From Gavin Baddeley - member of church of satan - “the church of Satan is a radical non-conformist movement communicating solely through ideas – some of them expressed, subtly and otherwise, through the music and performance of Marilyn Manson…the church of Satan was enjoying a raised profile and improved sales of LaVey’s Satanic Bible”
I do believe Manson is fine with the concept of Aetheism as well because he realizes that in the world of Christianity you either believe in God or you don't. If you don't, you're in the hands of satan. And that doesn't mean that such a person must be a murderer or ever even gotten a speeding ticket. Such a person might live a great life on earth and be a very good person. But, no heaven later (based on the rules of Christianity of course).
Here's that link - http://www.goodfight.org/a_mmanson.html
“I believe I am God... I dreamt I was the Antichrist, and I believe it.”
“Near the end of our visit, he said, ‘I want to make you a Reverend,’ and gave me a crimson card certifying me as a minister in the Church of Satan…It was also LaVey’s way of passing down the torch…As I left, LaVey put a bony hand on my shoulder, and, as it lay there coldly, he said, ‘You’re gonna make a big dent. You’re going to make an impression on the world.” (The Long Hard Road out of Hell, p. 170-171)
From Gavin Baddeley - member of church of satan - “the church of Satan is a radical non-conformist movement communicating solely through ideas – some of them expressed, subtly and otherwise, through the music and performance of Marilyn Manson…the church of Satan was enjoying a raised profile and improved sales of LaVey’s Satanic Bible”
I do believe Manson is fine with the concept of Aetheism as well because he realizes that in the world of Christianity you either believe in God or you don't. If you don't, you're in the hands of satan. And that doesn't mean that such a person must be a murderer or ever even gotten a speeding ticket. Such a person might live a great life on earth and be a very good person. But, no heaven later (based on the rules of Christianity of course).
Here's that link - http://www.goodfight.org/a_mmanson.html
pwnag3!!
Member
Without god there is no satan.
God cast lucifer into hell, did he not?
Atheist view: I dont beleive in god...there for there is no satan either. Deny god, Deny satan.
Christian view: People who dont beleive in god are automatically in the hands of satan. Deny god, accept satan.
You can put a label on things.... you can call him a satanist.
Its an act....Ever heard of shock rock? Why do you think rappers talk about killing people and drug dealing? It appeals to the ghetto community where this is more or less real life.... im sure some have done things that are not good. But most... havent.
Manson made millions off of impressionable minds that think its cool to rebel against the constancy that is the christian religion.
God cast lucifer into hell, did he not?
Atheist view: I dont beleive in god...there for there is no satan either. Deny god, Deny satan.
Christian view: People who dont beleive in god are automatically in the hands of satan. Deny god, accept satan.
You can put a label on things.... you can call him a satanist.
Its an act....Ever heard of shock rock? Why do you think rappers talk about killing people and drug dealing? It appeals to the ghetto community where this is more or less real life.... im sure some have done things that are not good. But most... havent.
Manson made millions off of impressionable minds that think its cool to rebel against the constancy that is the christian religion.
hagfish
Active Member
pwnag3!!, I'm sure you can make a concious decision about such things on your own. I probably listened to the same music and played the same games as you growing up. I used to love Quake with Manson (believe it or not) playing in the background. Quake had NIN in the soundtrack anyway, but Manson made the game more suspenseful and violent which is exactly what I wanted. You also mention White/Rob Zombie which was one of my favorites as well. But I choose not to listen to either of them any more. I don't feel they ever affected me, but I know they affect some people. You're right about loud protesting making it more popular. So I just don't buy it and that's it. I think I've only talked about this sort of thing one other time and that was to a relative who was having problems and needed to be talked to. And I've never talked about it in a public forum.
I also don't doubt that you are great at your job, a good person, and so on. Just because I'm a Christian and your an Atheist doesn't mean I assume you kill babies.
I also don't doubt that you are great at your job, a good person, and so on. Just because I'm a Christian and your an Atheist doesn't mean I assume you kill babies.
D
daniel411
Guest
Beth, I actually don't suggest that article I posted up above but it is pretty good. I'm one who was stubborn enough to not believe some things until I researched them myselvs, from both perspectives. I don't think you're find the quotes taken out of context either. Both Manson and the Church of Satan have admitted that they're more atheist than believing in an actual entity of Satan. However in their own sermons, speaches, etc. its quite the contrary; and that they only say that because they know that deep down few would listen if they knew how much they really meant certain things. The actual Church of Satan even had a division over this.
Completely agree with your comments on Parents!
Completely agree with your comments on Parents!
hagfish
Active Member
I'm not putting a label on him. In the quotes below it is revealed that Manson joined "the church of satan" on his own will. That was before he was a cultural icon. Also in the quotes is reference to a Satanic bible which is sponsored by "the church of satan".
Here's another quote from one of Charles Mansons followers “Anton (Manson's predecesor) told me that as a Satanist, he does believe in the God of the Bible, but he refused to worship him and made a conscious decision to worship Satan instead.”
That church is founded on a belief in satan as an entity, opposite God. He put the label on himself.
Here's another quote from one of Charles Mansons followers “Anton (Manson's predecesor) told me that as a Satanist, he does believe in the God of the Bible, but he refused to worship him and made a conscious decision to worship Satan instead.”
That church is founded on a belief in satan as an entity, opposite God. He put the label on himself.
Well, as I said, I know little about Manson or what he really believes in or advocates for. And, I'm not really inclined to find out either. I just think that God put parents in place to teach values by guidance and example and that rock music, or any other influencing force, can only become an obsessive negetive force if there is actually something else that is seriously wrong.
So, if your kids are obsessing over Manson, Goth, or Doom, then find out what is going on in a meaningful way. Likely the problem goes a lot further back then the day they incerted that CD. Taking the video game away is not going to solve the problem. Those who do obsess are in the far and few between, thank goodness. Most people don't go bonkers over music and games.
So, if your kids are obsessing over Manson, Goth, or Doom, then find out what is going on in a meaningful way. Likely the problem goes a lot further back then the day they incerted that CD. Taking the video game away is not going to solve the problem. Those who do obsess are in the far and few between, thank goodness. Most people don't go bonkers over music and games.