max water change/ high nitrates

[pohtr]

I didn't want to hijack the other high nitrate thread so I'm asking separately.
My nitrates are also thru the roof. I've been doing 10% water changes every week for 3 weeks with NO nitrate change. Do I need to do more water changes and if so what's the max? Also if water changes don't do it then what else is there to do? Also how does the nitrate being so high affect the fish? Stress? Will it kill them?
Also I don't have a full batch of bio balls, could this be part of the problem? I have about 2" of bio balls & coral scraps. 90g, skimmer (that doesn't skim anything - still fiddling with it), 75-100lbLR, LS, 4 fish, 9" total.

 

[dhughesz28]

not having enough bio-balls will not cause nigh NO3. Bioballs act as your biological filter, turning ammonia into NO2, then into NO3. So, if you have high NO3, then your Bio-balls are working just fine. Experts feel free to correct me if Im wrong...
Usually, high NO3 is caused by having to many fish than the tank can support. (which I dont think is the case in your situation) or by overfeeding. How much, and what do you feed your fish. What kind of fish do you have? what are your water parameters?
I have done water changes up to 15-20% with no problem. In an emergency case, you could probably do a 50% change as long as your salinity, pH and Temp of your new water matches that of your main tank. Good Luck

 

[lion_crazz]

Hey well you need to pick up on the water change amounts. A 10% weekly water change is not going to bring down high nitrates. You need to start doing weekly 30-40% water changes and the nitrates should start to come down quite a bit.
Nitrates will definitely stress the fish out to death depending on how high they are and how long they stay high. You really should not need a full batch of bio balls because you have so much live rock.
How often and how much are you feeding the fish? When you do water changes, do you vacuum the gravel?

 

[pohtr]

I have:
a blue/green chromis,
a flame angel,
a magenta dottyback,
a clarki clown,
and a bubble coral
clean up crew, emerald crab, a dozen hermits, 9 snails? Probably not enough, right?
I'm feeding twice a day as much as they'll eat before it hits the bottom, for about a half a minute, maybe a minute. It is usually formula one. Sometimes flakes or brine shrimp. Just got formula 2. Oh, and the bubble gets those nutrients...do you need to know how much & what of those too?
The bottom is sand that ranges from 0 to 4" deep since the clarki likes to fan it around. So I don't vacuum it.
salt is 1.023
temp 82-83.5 (have the top doors open, getting fan)
nitrites zero
ammonia zero
pH 8.2
nitrates at least 80
The nitrates started reading high when I introduced the new water, rock and fish to the tank about 2 1/2 weeks ago. All I had previously was the one chromi and about 10 lb of LR. The new stuff was a gift from a friend liquidating her tank. The first time I checked the perameters a few days after the big move they were at 60.

 

[lion_crazz]

Well your problem stems from the the fact that you added too much to your tank at one time. Was all the rock that you added cured or uncured?? If it was uncured, this would be a major problem. However, if it was cured, then either your tank is overstocked or you are overfeeding. It sounds like you may be overfeeding a little bit, however, how much flow do you have in the tank? How many gallons per hour is your return pump and powerheads? I take it you are trying to go for the live sand approach. I would recommend getting more sand then, as you will need a deep sand bed everywhere in the tank (except under your live rock, as flow does not often reach under the live rock, and often times, detritus gets stuck here and causes nitrates). You do not want any areas with 0" of sand except for under the rock. You also want a lot more hermits to stir up your sand if you are not going to do it yourself. I would think of increasing the amount of hermit crabs you have in the tank to 18 or 20.

 

[the reef]

you could add 10-20 grams of a nitrate media to a canister filter and this should help get them down but need to rinse the media twice a week for optimal results

 

[pohtr]

I didn't really add all this stuff to my tank...I transported my friends tank & water & inhabitants to my tank which was almost empty except for the chromis and some clean up crew. The LR was cured and the move was quick. And I even used about 3/4 her water changed into my tank. There was no ammonia spike after the move.
Tank flow is 1070gph (the return pump is 500), plus the one from my friends tank which I don't know the gph for.
I'm definitely not trying to go for the deep bed LS approach but my Clarki Clown likes to fan the sand all over and makes these bare spots and mountains...not MY idea.
I definitely think you're right, I need a larger clean up crew. I wasn't sure if I should be moving the sand back or leaving it alone...I guess then it's better to flatten it out periodically??
What's a nitrate media? Is that the carbon with the extra stuff in it?
Um, and what's a canister filter?
Thanks for all your help!!

 

[lion_crazz]

If you are not going for the deep sand bed approach, then I would start disturbing the sand bed and getting deep into it when you are vacuuming at least until you have your nitrates controlled. Also, increasing your hermits and clean up will help a lot.
Don't worry about nitrate media. It does not work very well. Also, a cannister filter is a type of filter. You would know if you had one, and being that you do not, don't worry about it.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by pohtr
I'm definitely not trying to go for the deep bed LS approach but my Clarki Clown likes to fan the sand all over and makes these bare spots and mountains...not MY idea.
Well, with 4" inches of sand you've got issues.
The Clown moving it around is fine, but with that amount of sand in spots I'm sure it is trapping a lot of waste in it.
Either vaccuum it, or make it much more shallow to allow your critters to clean it. (unless of course you decide to go for a DSB)

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Well, with 4" inches of sand you've got issues.
The Clown moving it around is fine, but with that amount of sand in spots I'm sure it is trapping a lot of waste in it.
Either vaccuum it, or make it much more shallow to allow your critters to clean it. (unless of course you decide to go for a DSB)
yeah that pretty much sums it up.

 

[the reef]

I would also say your nitrates are rising because you said you put all the fish in at once this could of had an afect on your bio load capacity=being over welmed if you have a qt tank I would move a couple of fish to that untell the nitrate goes down then add them back in

 

[pohtr]

I decided to move some of the sand off the main mountain, so it's down to about 2". It is up against the front glass and the bottom inch of it has a darker greenish color. I'm thinking a mini deep bed is starting there so I didn't disturb it cause I didn't want to mess the water up more.
Is it possible to keep a mini deep bed????
Even if I tried to have a regular full tank deep bed I think that Clarki would make bare spots, he's very forceful!
How do you vacuum deep into the sand without sucking up all the great micro guys that live there? And how do you keep from sucking up the sand? I thought with sand you were only supposed to vacuum the very tippity top.
Can this piling up of the sand trap hermits & snails or can they climb out if they get in the way and are buried? I'm going to try to smooth it out a little every day anyway.
Another thought I had was that since I've been feeding the frozen food after it thaws a while, it breaks into pieces, some very fine, when its being eaten. Although none of the obvious pieces get a chance to hit the ground there seems to be a sort of cloud that escapes. Maybe that's adding to the nitrates?

 

[the reef]

Originally Posted by pohtr
I decided to move some of the sand off the main mountain, so it's down to about 2". It is up against the front glass and the bottom inch of it has a darker greenish color. I'm thinking a mini deep bed is starting there so I didn't disturb it cause I didn't want to mess the water up more.
Is it possible to keep a mini deep bed????
Even if I tried to have a regular full tank deep bed I think that Clarki would make bare spots, he's very forceful!
How do you vacuum deep into the sand without sucking up all the great micro guys that live there? And how do you keep from sucking up the sand? I thought with sand you were only supposed to vacuum the very tippity top.
Can this piling up of the sand trap hermits & snails or can they climb out if they get in the way and are buried? I'm going to try to smooth it out a little every day anyway.
Another thought I had was that since I've been feeding the frozen food after it thaws a while, it breaks into pieces, some very fine, when its being eaten. Although none of the obvious pieces get a chance to hit the ground there seems to be a sort of cloud that escapes. Maybe that's adding to the nitrates?
you will lose a little bit of sand by vacuming it but it is nesasary then over time you can add a little bit of sand back in the tank