McCain the overly agressive, socially awkward 3rd grader...

kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2800015
Let's assume that you took away food stamps, WIC, welfare, and all the other current social programs. Just took everyone who couldn't do it on their own, and basically but them on the streets. What do you think would happen to this country?
.
When have the Republicans ever said they want to do this?? As a Republican, I feel everyone has a chance to make their lives better if they are willing to work for it, expecting the government to just hand you something to me is a very Democrat view. I have seen it first hand, my wife could not have come from a poorer background with her parents coming over hear from Vietnam just after the war. At one point she was one of 14 people (3 families) living in a 1,000 sq. foot home here in AZ. Her parents learned English and got better jobs. The only thing they wanted was a better life for their kids, the greatest day of their life was the day they got off of foodstamps. My wife got no handouts to get her scholarship to U of Zona, and no one gave her a free admission to medical school. She has earned everything she has gotten.
Help is there for those that truly need it and always well be in this country I hope. But pardon me if we don't want our hard earned money turned into taxes this year to pay for some 22 year old mother of 4's groceries because she didn't make better choices.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
http:///forum/post/2800034
that is the republican ideology...
repubs= more personal responsibility, less govt
dems= more govt, more "govt will take care of you, less personal responsibility"
Ok man, I understand where you are coming from. I guess I just don't see how that could ever really work. Because you're always gonna have the people who...
A) Can't take care of themselves
B) Don't have the mental/physical capacity to be able to run their own lives
C) Just aren't smart enough to be able to maintain the type of lifestyle that is self sustaining
Not to mention those who are addicts, criminals, and sadly the children who get put in the homes of those aforementioned people...
Assuming you could take all the "bad" out of the country, I think less government and more personal responsibility would be a good idea. I just don't see how it could ever work in the real world?
And I'm not real big into world history, but has there ever been a society where a true "republican" ideology was practiced successfully?
 
cowfishrule

cowfishrule

Active Member
by the way, if you are fully educated in obama's plans/motives, and still wish to vote for him, thats perfectly ok. that is your right as a citizen; to choose the candidate that you believe, that aligns with your thoughts/beliefs.
i am not singling you out, nor dismantling your thoughts. its just that it bothers me when you throw all this anti-mccain verbage out without knowing both sides.
this is a public forum and encourages discussions on both sides. that is the basis for debates, to exchange ideas. even if you know the truth and still choose to vote obama, you are always welcome here.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2800051
Ok man, I understand where you are coming from. I guess I just don't see how that could ever really work. Because you're always gonna have the people who...
A) Can't take care of themselves
B) Don't have the mental/physical capacity to be able to run their own lives
C) Just aren't smart enough to be able to maintain the type of lifestyle that is self sustaining
Not to mention those who are addicts, criminals, and sadly the children who get put in the homes of those aforementioned people...
Assuming you could take all the "bad" out of the country, I think less government and more personal responsibility would be a good idea. I just don't see how it could ever work in the real world?
And I'm not real big into world history, but has there ever been a society where a true "republican" ideology was practiced successfully?
There is a big difference between helping those who can't help themselves and supporting people who make stupid decisions. If a couple gets married and has a couple kids when neither has the job skills to land a job with benefits or decent pay do you think it is your responsibility to help support the family?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2800015
The trouble with that, and capitalism in general, is that you will ALWAYS have a upper, middle, and lower class.
If there WAS no lower class, then the Republican ideas are great. And I for one, would be happy to support them...

Holy crap!!!!
Ok, let me say this. You aren't much older than I was when I truly started paying attention. In fact I am only older than you by 6 years, not a longtime really. I think I ave maybe seen more though due to living in many states and european countries in my lifetime.
I want you to think about what you just said. Truly think about it. In any system you will have a lower,middle and upper class. Any system. because as wages go up so do cost for the most part. It is impossible to eliminate this effect. Thus it is impossible to eliminate the three classes, sure you can shrink them to a degree, but you will never eliminate them. The only way to do this is pay everyone the same no matter what their job is. This is socialism/communism essentially and even that form of government has mainly two classes. Poor and rich. The middle class is shrunk considerably in all cases of this form.
The main problem with trying to eliminate a class is you eventually eliminate all classes and eliminate the skill positions. Because if I get paid the same to push a broom or perform surgery, I am damn well going to push a broom.
Stop and truly think about what you said and show me a better way that eliminates the lower class...it isn't out there. because if you raise wages you raise cost and your middle class falls into the lower class as goods have increased because the lower class wages have increased. You will never eliminate the lower class...it is impossible. what you eliminate is the middle class.....
It is a catch 22 and there is no true solution. So the question becomes, do you allow avenues for the lower class and middle class to pick themselves up, or do you just take care of them indefinitely and leave the status quo in place?
Give a man a fish, tomorrow he is begging for more. Teach a man to fish and tomorrow he will try to feed himself.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2800051
Ok man, I understand where you are coming from. I guess I just don't see how that could ever really work. Because you're always gonna have the people who...
A) Can't take care of themselves
B) Don't have the mental/physical capacity to be able to run their own lives
C) Just aren't smart enough to be able to maintain the type of lifestyle that is self sustaining
Not to mention those who are addicts, criminals, and sadly the children who get put in the homes of those aforementioned people...
Assuming you could take all the "bad" out of the country, I think less government and more personal responsibility would be a good idea. I just don't see how it could ever work in the real world?
And I'm not real big into world history, but has there ever been a society where a true "republican" ideology was practiced successfully?

I agree with some of these points. But I also disagree, here is why. I know quite a few mentally challenged individuals that work and work hard. They do menial jobs. Their Mentally challenged wives do the same things. These people have a place to live, a car, and work daily cleaning a restaurant and washing dishes. Not exactly the most complicated of jobs. But, they show up, are punctual, and are doing this on their own. The receive no government support. The did go to an organization for job placement in the beginning, but after that they have since taken care of themselves. And they are happy. They always have something nice to say, a smile and are willing to help in anyway they can at work if asked. When they finish their job at work, they seek out more work if their shift is not finished. I admire the mentally challenged because to them they are a part of society and a benefit to society. They enjoy contributing and live very simple lives yet maintain happiness. I actually envy them to a degree. They care not for luxury things. They have a job and feed and care for themselves. And they are happy....if only the average citizen had this outlook.
Now, there are those that can not do this, and I say we help them. However if a person is poor, yet has a Cell phone and an Ipod, and other items NOT needed to survive...I don't care. I had a guy ask me if I could give him a few bucks for gas while he talked on his 400 dollar cell phone to someone on the other end. Are you kidding me?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2800015
I guess being young, I maybe don't quite grasp the whole Republican ideology...
First of all let me say that I'm all for less government and everyone making their own money to the best of their abilities. In fact, in a perfect world, this would seem to make sense.
The trouble with that, and capitalism in general, is that you will ALWAYS have a upper, middle, and lower class.
If there WAS no lower class, then the Republican ideas are great. And I for one, would be happy to support them...
But the reality is, that poor, uneducated people will ALWAYS be here.
So how can you just cast them aside through political policy?
Let's assume that you took away food stamps, WIC, welfare, and all the other current social programs. Just took everyone who couldn't do it on their own, and basically but them on the streets. What do you think would happen to this country?
You want to talk about a bad idea.
I guess I can see the republican point of view, that if you took it away, then they would have to work, work, work to make a living without having a social "crutch" to lean on.
Maybe in your opinion that would force people to work.
I personally think that would start a class war. I think crimes would increase, I think violence would increase even more, and I think you would have a socioeconomic divide like this country has never seen before.
Given enough time, I think the classes would separate and you would almost have two different societies.
Now maybe I am wrong, and cutting out social programs could be a good thing. But I'm guessing we are somewhat past the point of being able to experiment without causing a lot more harm than good.
Again, I admit I'm only 27, and haven't been around the block long enough to really know one way or another. Just one mans personal opinion...
The republican ideology does more to help the poor than any democrat policy do something for the "poor" (a term i use loosely referring to any american)
They give them the opportunity, if they want to, to better themselves financially.
All you have to do is look at michigan, New Orleans to see what unchecked democrat entitlements will do..
You don't think running a round mocking a plumber, telling people it is only fair to spread around the wealth. Isn't pitting one group of people against another.
You could take obama and his ideas one step further. Do you not realize there are only two classes in a socialized country? The ruling class, and the working class... Read some history.
There are a hand full of actual people who won't survive. But do you realize how much americans spend in private charity? For everyone else it is a choice. I'm not going to help the newly married couple that blows their paychecks and doesn't plan ahead. if you don't have risk your market will collapse and everyone will be poor.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
You know, I really hate it when people defend the lazy... honestly, that's how I feel. Even mentally challenged people have it in them to be functioning members of society, albeit lower on the food chain.
The other day there was this guy holding a sign wanting food or money. He was probably the same age as I was, in his 20's... in good shape. Nothing pisses me off worse than that. A perfectly healthy and stong young man, fully capable of doing some kind of work, but too LAZY.
There is always the exception - a single mom with 7 kids should get food stamps to help her live. But there are a lot of people who cheat the system because they're not willing to get off their butts and contribute to society. AND THEN they expect ME to give them MY ALREADY TAXED, HARD-EARNED MONEY!?!?!
This is clearly a hot-button for me. Sorry guys
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2799800
They don't need to find dirt on McCain and trust me, if they wanted to, it wouldn't be that hard.
It's surprising how naive this statement is - A political party NOT looking for dirt? Are you really that sheltered?
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2799899
Have you not been watching the same debates as the rest of us? Did you watch the debate on the split screen where they were showing both candidates? There is no way in the world you can seriously say he acts like a decent person and much of what I have read indicates that many people feel the same way and they don't see him as presidental.
Side note, I did appreciate that when he shook Obama's hand at the end of the last debate he said good job 4-5 times...probably more of an indication he knew he had his backside handed to him. Even the poll on Fox news had Obama as the winner.
This is another perfect example of people who will believe what they want to believe instead of seeing the truth.
It was one of McCain's strongest debates, however I will agree that his debating in the past as been weak. This one really took the cake for him though. I'd like to see who said McCain got his rear handed to him - seriously. And then contrast it to the half dozen people I watched after who said this was his best, and Obama got the short stick this time.
 
nvmycj

nvmycj

Member
It's amazing to me to see each other debate on who will be the better president for our country. We make jabs at one another and toward each others candidates. Instead, lets just state the facts. Get the media out of your head and start with a clean slate. Do your OWN research.
It is easy for us to judge, since we're "on the sidelines and not in the game." There are MILLIONS of people this single individual is trying to lead and do good for. It's impossible for him, whomever it might be, to make us all happy. "You can pick your nose, and you can pick your friends,...but you can't pick your friend's nose."
The future president, and the ones in the past, will and have made mistakes. The are human. No need to hold it against them. There is much youth here on this blog. Perhaps you haven't made mistakes in your young life, to maybe have learned from them. You like hearing the exciting and explosive speeches 'he' gives. Granted,...I'll give him that. 'He' can speak to an audience of thousands like there's no tomorrow......but take caution folks.....
so did Hitler.
I lived in a communist/socialist country,...the former Yugoslavia. It wasn't a fun time in my life, nor in the life of my parents. This is where one of the candidates wants to lead our country. No thank you. Been there, done that, burned the T-shirt. Again, do you OWN research. Look at where the candidate was raised. Look at the church he belongs to. Research the company he keeps. We was quoted that he refused to wear a U.S. flag on his suit lapel because he didn't want to offend any other foreign country representatives! Folks...he doesn't respect the flag for which gives him the freedom to speak of it in such disregard. If elected, he will assume the position of Commander-in-Chief. A role which countless of men & women have died to protect and defend that freedom. If he gets sworn into office, he has requested to place his hand on the Koran, vs the Bible. This from a man who stated that he was a Christian.
Boys & girls....I might've been born at night, but sure as heck not last night. Turn off your TV's. Put down your newspapers. Stop reading blogs like this and develop your own opinion. Do you OWN research. Develop your OWN opinion. And if it happens to be different than your frat buddy's or sorority sister's....so be it. Have a mind of your own,....and speak it if necessary.
I wish that America wasn't so stuck on having a bi-partisan race. Why not a tri-partisan. There are wonderful ideas from both sides that can be used to guide and lead this country. Both the left wingers and the right wingers have good arguements....now if we can meet somewhere in the middle.....
I have no grudge with either party....just the candidates they've nominated. Please be careful and diligent of home you select as your candidate. May God bless us all and this wonderful country and may he provide guidance to our next president.
Sorry about being long winded. But, thanks for reading this.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2800015
.......
The trouble with that, and capitalism in general, is that you will ALWAYS have a upper, middle, and lower class.....
Versus Socialism, where you have 1 class, and it sucks... Study history. The more the government takes away from society, the lower the standard of living becomes for all citizens. That's why countries across Europe have such high taxes and no military anymore; They can't pay for their social programs. That's why Communism fails...
In a Capitalistic society, it is the Government's job to make sure everyone has an opportunity to better themselves and "pursue" happiness.
Have you ever stopped to think why our Nation is the greatest in the world?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by NVMYCJ
http:///forum/post/2800294
It's amazing to me to see each other debate on who will be the better president for our country. We make jabs at one another and toward each others candidates. Instead, lets just state the facts. Get the media out of your head and start with a clean slate. Do your OWN research.
It is easy for us to judge, since we're "on the sidelines and not in the game." There are MILLIONS of people this single individual is trying to lead and do good for. It's impossible for him, whomever it might be, to make us all happy. "You can pick your nose, and you can pick your friends,...but you can't pick your friend's nose."
The future president, and the ones in the past, will and have made mistakes. The are human. No need to hold it against them. There is much youth here on this blog. Perhaps you haven't made mistakes in your young life, to maybe have learned from them. You like hearing the exciting and explosive speeches 'he' gives. Granted,...I'll give him that. 'He' can speak to an audience of thousands like there's no tomorrow......but take caution folks.....
so did Hitler.
I lived in a communist/socialist country,...the former Yugoslavia. It wasn't a fun time in my life, nor in the life of my parents. This is where one of the candidates wants to lead our country. No thank you. Been there, done that, burned the T-shirt. Again, do you OWN research. Look at where the candidate was raised. Look at the church he belongs to. Research the company he keeps. We was quoted that he refused to wear a U.S. flag on his suit lapel because he didn't want to offend any other foreign country representatives! Folks...he doesn't respect the flag for which gives him the freedom to speak of it in such disregard. If elected, he will assume the position of Commander-in-Chief. A role which countless of men & women have died to protect and defend that freedom. If he gets sworn into office, he has requested to place his hand on the Koran, vs the Bible. This from a man who stated that he was a Christian.
Boys & girls....I might've been born at night, but sure as heck not last night. Turn off your TV's. Put down your newspapers. Stop reading blogs like this and develop your own opinion. Do you OWN research. Develop your OWN opinion. And if it happens to be different than your frat buddy's or sorority sister's....so be it. Have a mind of your own,....and speak it if necessary.
I wish that America wasn't so stuck on having a bi-partisan race. Why not a tri-partisan. There are wonderful ideas from both sides that can be used to guide and lead this country. Both the left wingers and the right wingers have good arguements....now if we can meet somewhere in the middle.....
I have no grudge with either party....just the candidates they've nominated. Please be careful and diligent of home you select as your candidate. May God bless us all and this wonderful country and may he provide guidance to our next president.
Sorry about being long winded. But, thanks for reading this.
Thank you....
 
cowfishrule

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by NVMYCJ
http:///forum/post/2800294
It's amazing to me to see each other debate on who will be the better president for our country. We make jabs at one another and toward each others candidates. Instead, lets just state the facts. Get the media out of your head and start with a clean slate. Do your OWN research.
It is easy for us to judge, since we're "on the sidelines and not in the game." There are MILLIONS of people this single individual is trying to lead and do good for. It's impossible for him, whomever it might be, to make us all happy. "You can pick your nose, and you can pick your friends,...but you can't pick your friend's nose."
The future president, and the ones in the past, will and have made mistakes. The are human. No need to hold it against them. There is much youth here on this blog. Perhaps you haven't made mistakes in your young life, to maybe have learned from them. You like hearing the exciting and explosive speeches 'he' gives. Granted,...I'll give him that. 'He' can speak to an audience of thousands like there's no tomorrow......but take caution folks.....
so did Hitler.
I lived in a communist/socialist country,...the former Yugoslavia. It wasn't a fun time in my life, nor in the life of my parents. This is where one of the candidates wants to lead our country. No thank you. Been there, done that, burned the T-shirt. Again, do you OWN research. Look at where the candidate was raised. Look at the church he belongs to. Research the company he keeps. We was quoted that he refused to wear a U.S. flag on his suit lapel because he didn't want to offend any other foreign country representatives! Folks...he doesn't respect the flag for which gives him the freedom to speak of it in such disregard. If elected, he will assume the position of Commander-in-Chief. A role which countless of men & women have died to protect and defend that freedom. If he gets sworn into office, he has requested to place his hand on the Koran, vs the Bible. This from a man who stated that he was a Christian.
Boys & girls....I might've been born at night, but sure as heck not last night. Turn off your TV's. Put down your newspapers. Stop reading blogs like this and develop your own opinion. Do you OWN research. Develop your OWN opinion. And if it happens to be different than your frat buddy's or sorority sister's....so be it. Have a mind of your own,....and speak it if necessary.
I wish that America wasn't so stuck on having a bi-partisan race. Why not a tri-partisan. There are wonderful ideas from both sides that can be used to guide and lead this country. Both the left wingers and the right wingers have good arguements....now if we can meet somewhere in the middle.....
I have no grudge with either party....just the candidates they've nominated. Please be careful and diligent of home you select as your candidate. May God bless us all and this wonderful country and may he provide guidance to our next president.
Sorry about being long winded. But, thanks for reading this.
my wife and her family escaped collapsing communist romainia in 1987 just before the country collapsed. they came here literally with $40 in their pockets. through the freedoms here, they now own 3 business, 2 houses, and an yacht. granted they work 12-14 hours a day, but regardless. my f-i-l always says he'll never vote democratic because that is what he escaped from 20 years ago. i always just chuckled and diregarded it, until i started paying attention.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Communism, except perhaps in small communities of people who choose to "commune", fails because it goes against human nature. Its against human nature to work hard, yet, have little to show for it because the "wealth is spread around". People are entitled to the wealth that they earn, and, given the chance to freely be generous, people are very charitable (without a government mandate to be so). The USA is the most charitable country in the world, and I'm not talking about our government, but our people. There has never been a truly communist country that has been successful. Even Communist China has its class system and its capitalistic drive--there are very rich people in China, and others who are dirt poor, living in huts without ANY health care. There are also middle class people. Same with the former USSR--which is a good example of the failures of socialism.
Socialism equates to suppression, because it takes what is yours and "spreads it around". And spreading it around, all too often means, lining the pockets of those in charge of the system.
If we look at those that have attempted pure socialism, you will see a horribly unfair class system develop, where the haves are members of the communist party. Look at Communist Cuba. That country is in shambles (despite what Michael Moore claims).
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by NVMYCJ
http:///forum/post/2800294
I wish that America wasn't so stuck on having a bi-partisan race. Why not a tri-partisan. There are wonderful ideas from both sides that can be used to guide and lead this country. Both the left wingers and the right wingers have good arguements....now if we can meet somewhere in the middle.....
I believe that it is coming to that. 20 years ago, the Independent vote was nothing. Now, it will decide this election. I'm all for breaking up the "parties". Let individuals run for office, and we might actually get some awesome leaders in this country.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2800380
Communism, except perhaps in small communities of people who choose to "commune", fails because it goes against human nature. Its against human nature to work hard, yet, have little to show for it because the "wealth is spread around". People are entitled to the wealth that they earn, and, given the chance to freely be generous, people are very charitable (without a government mandate to be so). The USA is the most charitable country in the world, and I'm not talking about our government, but our people. There has never been a truly communist country that has been successful. Even Communist China has its class system and its capitalistic drive--there are very rich people in China, and others who are dirt poor, living in huts without ANY health care. There are also middle class people. Same with the former USSR--which is a good example of the failures of socialism.
Socialism equates to suppression, because it takes what is yours and "spreads it around". And spreading it around, all too often means, lining the pockets of those in charge of the system.
If we look at those that have attempted pure socialism, you will see a horribly unfair class system develop, where the haves are members of the communist party. Look at Communist Cuba. That country is in shambles (despite what Michael Moore claims).

Perfect explanation

This is the same reason I am anti Union. When you get the same pay, raises and bonuses as the guy working next to you who shows up 5 minutes late everyday and takes a 20 minute bathroom break 4 times a day what is your motivation to excel at your own job?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2800384
I believe that it is coming to that. 20 years ago, the Independent vote was nothing. Now, it will decide this election. I'm all for breaking up the "parties". Let individuals run for office, and we might actually get some awesome leaders in this country.

I have my own conspiracy theory about the 3rd party or independent movement in this country. A group called unity 08 was gaining steam last year when they planned to pair a centrist Democrat and Republican to run for president. Suddenly John McCain comes back from the dead and the Democrats nominate the least qualified candidate in recent history? Both being seen as new blood and a "maverick" it took the wind out of the sails of Unity 08 and it folded.
Gotta wonder if the two parties don't meet in a back room somewhere and script the election as closely as a WWF match.
 
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