Microbubbles in CL closed loop

[saltn00b]

2 things,
1) 2400 GPH is a bit high flow for a sump, most of your GPH should ideally be from your CLS. usually no harm done here, however if the microbubbles that would normally float up and fizzle out before going into the next sump chamber are not allowed that opportunity because of a mad stream current, then yes, those bubbles will simply continue through the system.
2) how far is the water dropping over the baffles? if the distance is to high of a drop, you will be constantly recreating microbubbles, no matter what you are doing to the bubbles before it.
here is the last chamber on my sump:

once the water evaporates and get to about an inch above the bulkhead, the water spilling over from the last baffle drops hard enough to cause bubble which promptly get sucked through, so i start to see little puffs of micro bubbles as a warning sign im about to run dry.

 

[turbo21]

two other thoughts for you, one is cavitation, try turning your flow down from the pump to the tank, usually about a 10 degree turn on the ball valve will fix it
if this doesn't work, check the plumbing connection from the sump to the pump, if there is a small leak or crack the plumbing can suck air into the pipes, alot of times you will never see water leaking from these, but it is enough to draw air into the lines
if these don't help, i am not sure what else to try
bob

 

[stimpy4242]

My pump is in the sump chamber, so no worries about leaks to it..i have also checked leaks elsewhere...there is no drop from the last baffles into the sump chamber, the drops i was talking about were fromt he first baffles...and only on the fuge side...you need to remember its not actually 2400gph it is 1300gph with the head loss...

 

[stimpy4242]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
have you tried bubble sponge instead of floss?
I was told bubble sponge was floss...where can i find bubble sponge?

 

[saltn00b]

my LFS sells them in big blue bricks for like 4 bucks a brick. you can cut them to shape with a razor or scissor.
if you are looking at the chamber after the baffles, are their micro bubbles coming through the baffles?

 

[stimpy4242]

Yes, thats the problem. Will those bricks clog up the flow? Do you have a better name I can search for?

 

[saltn00b]

when i messed with my fuge and stuff got kicked up, it started to clog but they are easy to clean. when it runs normally, it doesnt clog.
sorry i dont have a better name.
try -
foam bricks
bubble foam
aquarium foam

 

[stimpy4242]

I guess clog is a bad term, since the flow is restricted the water begins to back up...I can't find this stuff anywhere if you have a link send it to me phil *nospam* at philipdeplo.com

 

[saltn00b]

do a yahoo search for this phrase:
Big Al's Foam Insert-3.5" x 3.5" x 9.75"

 

[stimpy4242]

awesome I am going to get me some...squidd suggested on another post to drill a 1/4" hole about 4" above the water line where the pipes drop into sump and fuge. Also question, the line running into my fuge come in horizontal with the fuge and a 90 elbow drops it into fuge...is that ok? it does not need to enter vertical right? I assume the horizontal is probably better...

 

[mpls man]

Originally Posted by stimpy4242
You say overflow and that makes me think you are talking about two different things...overflow generally are to feed water to the sump below. With a CL system you have an intake side and a discharge side. In my setup my intake is a 2" intake which blows to 4 1" discharges. Two of the discharges are on the back wall of the tank on the far left and right about 8" off the bottom and the two others are coming up from the bottom of the tank into the rock support structure and will be hidden in the rockwork. My intake is close to my left justified overflow and is also 8" from the bottom. Once i finish aquascaping nothing will be visible. I would have like to go through an oceans motion device, and I may change it in the future to do so, but money did not allow at this time. Although I think with the different locations of the discharges there is more than enough random flow, but I still think the OM would be better. You mention your pump is about 1270gph...keep in mind how much head you will be dealing with. I have more discharges than you, but I am using a 5600gph pump and in my oppinion i think it is just enough...a lot of head is being killed with the friction loss of the piping.
ok thanks for clarifying the difference, i would have 2 overflows to the pump, then the discharges would be to the 4 corners of the tank, 1st going throught the wavemaker drum, i realyzer i will have loss from the elbows in each corner, i'm hoping to get the pump just under the bottom of the stand to eliminate too much head loss, which would be approx 3'.
so do you think that 2 discharges will be fine for a 110, and will they be fine at the top, middle , or bottom.
as far as the pump from my basement i'm using a 1/2 h seahorse @3600 gph with a head loss at approx 10', this will be running through my chiller as well.
thanks for the help.

 

[mpls man]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
2 things,
1) 2400 GPH is a bit high flow for a sump, most of your GPH should ideally be from your CLS. usually no harm done here, however if the microbubbles that would normally float up and fizzle out before going into the next sump chamber are not allowed that opportunity because of a mad stream current, then yes, those bubbles will simply continue through the system.
2) how far is the water dropping over the baffles? if the distance is to high of a drop, you will be constantly recreating microbubbles, no matter what you are doing to the bubbles before it.
here is the last chamber on my sump:

once the water evaporates and get to about an inch above the bulkhead, the water spilling over from the last baffle drops hard enough to cause bubble which promptly get sucked through, so i start to see little puffs of micro bubbles as a warning sign im about to run dry.
saltn00b
in reading your statement #2 i'm wondering what i'll have for microbubles from a 10' drop to my sump. what i'm thinking of doing is having a large filter sock in the sump before it goes through 3 walls to the main part of the sump, will that cut down the micro bubbles enough ,my refugium is totally seperate so not worried about that.
thanks

 

[stimpy4242]

Originally Posted by MPLS MAN
ok thanks for clarifying the difference, i would have 2 overflows to the pump, then the discharges would be to the 4 corners of the tank, 1st going throught the wavemaker drum, i realyzer i will have loss from the elbows in each corner, i'm hoping to get the pump just under the bottom of the stand to eliminate too much head loss, which would be approx 3'.
so do you think that 2 discharges will be fine for a 110, and will they be fine at the top, middle , or bottom.
as far as the pump from my basement i'm using a 1/2 h seahorse @3600 gph with a head loss at approx 10', this will be running through my chiller as well.
thanks for the help.
I have to admit you are still be confusing...you DO NOT USE an overflow for a CL system. Ok with that being said, there is also no need for TWO intakes in a CL system...just make one big one. Also I think you are going to have more than your 3 feet head loss from friction loss. So double check that. I am telling you, my pump is mounted to the bottom of my tank and the actual vertical elevation is very little...look at the pics in this post:
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243583

 

[saltn00b]

guys you dont have 'head loss' with a CLS. the upward push is negated by the downward gravity of the water before the pump. the only loss is minimal is in your friction, which is elbows, reducing couplingfs, etc. expect only a few hundred GPH friction loss with any CLS set up.

 

[stimpy4242]

I hate this argument, ok if we want to be specific, then lets do that, you are right there is no head loss because the drop down is negated by the rise up...yeah...fine...friction loss is the big concern here and if you think friction lost from throwing through elbows and splitting to four lines and bending into bulkheads and back out is a couple hundred gph you are sorely mistaken...you can look at my pictures above in the link and a 5800 gph pump is losing about 2500 gph from my CL system! That is a big deal and it was verified with a flow meter.

 

[saltn00b]

interesting finds, how did you use the flow meter , i am curious? also, do you think that your system has more friction than the average CLS?

 

[stimpy4242]

Just a screw on flow meter, i volunteer in the fire department and we have one for engine tests...i just adapted it for slip..hehe..don't tell them. I would say it has way more friction...it leaves the pump and enters into a 4way manifold created from the 1.5" T...so it splits right away left and right. then hits another wall to split left and right then the back two go up to a 90 into the tank and the front two go up into a 90 into the tank and then into a 1.5" T that splits into tank...thats a lot of Ts to bust through. I am using a 5800gph pump...sequence hammerhead

 

[stimpy4242]

Oh BTW No more microbubbles with foam...THANKS!

 

[saltn00b]

awesome the foam worked!
yea you have a lot of Tees , that is rough, why didnt you go with Wyes and 45s ?
i am hooking up a Dart onto my set up soon.

 

[stimpy4242]

Space..., plus they do not make a wye that has one inlet and 2 outlets actually shaped like a wye. They only have the straight pipe with something coming out the side, which would be incredibly uneven flow. The other wye they have is with the straight pipe and then three outlets one inline with the input and two on either side, but if you cap the center one...you are worse than a t