min lighting for anemone

[fishieness]

hmmm..... an interesting debate going on..... i have 192 watts of PC in a 40 breeder (36X18X16)..... ive always wondered if i was able to keep an anenome like a LTA or a BTA. i have had people tell me both awnsers. and i ahve seen pics of them thriving and also failing....... Im kinda scared to try one to tell you the truth.... But an interesting thread to read. Thanks everyone for your imput! I have also been thinking of getting another 192 watts of PC or 78 of T5..... how would that be?

 

[scubadoo]

Cut and Paste from Bob Fenner regrding feeding......
Underfeed, underfeed, don't feed! Underfeed, underfeed, don't feed! Most losses in captive systems are the result of over-feeding. How many more times do I feel I need to write this? Bunches! Some anemones have been kept for YEARS without any intentional external feeding. Know your stock! Many anemones (especially larger species) are detritivorous (a polite term meaning they eat poop), planktivorous, and largely chemoautotrophic/photosynthesizing species/individuals that hobbyists try to over-stuff with meaty/prepared foods. My bid for largest cause of loss of anemones is the consequences (lack of oxygen, hydrogen and other sulfide production...) from over-feeding. Cut it out! Within normal temperatures and other conditions, most can and do do well on weekly feedings. If you're going on vacation, leave them alone.

 

[diane4]

Scoobado - I have my own quote to offer from Ronald Shimek Ph.D (author of the much used book Marine Invert book.
Dr. Ron's book - most reefkeepers have this on their shelf
Dr. ron Shimek's website tallking about the need to feed anemone's regularly
"Many anemones, including the Pacific host anemones, have zooxanthellae. People tend to believe that animals with zooxanthellae don’t need to be fed or fed very much. This is definitely not the case. Zooxanthellae may provide nutrition to a sea anemone, but the zooxanthellae, in turn, need many chemicals, such as nitrogenous compounds, available only from their hosts and which the hosts get only from their food. Additionally, the anemones acquire necessary mineral and proteinaceous materials from their diets, not from zooxanthellae.
Once an acceptable food has been found, the appropriate volume and schedule must be determined. Try gradually increasing the amount of food to find out how much will be taken at one time. Note the time to regurgitation of undigested material, if any is regurgitated. With only one opening to the gut, anything that is undigested has to come out the mouth, too. Then feed again the day following the regurgitation. If you don’t see any obvious expelling of food residue, then feed again after two or three days. Probably, at a minimum, the animals will need to be fed two or three times a week to remain healthy.
Not only do these species need to be fed, but for good health they often need to be fed a lot. As an example, my female S. haddoni eats the equivalent of a tablespoon of fish every other day. Any less food and she starts to shrink. Much more and she grows, and with her oral disk at about 50 centimeters (almost 20 inches) in diameter, I don’t want her to get too much larger. This feeding regimen kept her in good enough condition that she spawned in mid March and April of this year."
I can't say it enough, anemones I think often die, because they are not fed enough. Consider that? Many have stated that the reason why you don't want to feed your anemone every other day or every day is because it "polutes the water". What I do is make appropriate sized pieces to give them according to the size of the anemone and what they normally will consume without spitting it backup up. AND, I am a believer of big water changes. In my 5 fresh water tanks I change approx. 70% every week, without fail. And my saltwater tanks I have been doing 20% once a week with an occaisional skip to every two week. But ya know somethin' - I am going to do it more often and maybe around 30% change - it keeps the water clean and refreshes lost nutrients.
I think people have listend to the lfs too much. Many of the stores do not feed much because it bites into their procfits. More food to the aquarium animals = costs money for food and labor time to serve it. And more waste requires more water change and water maintenance = which equals more salt and labor time and that costs money. And finally, if the animal gets too big, it is often harder to sell and requires bigger tanks, which means that you can't keep as much stock available for sale.
The reduced feeding and small water changes are all retail attitudes. I listen to Dr. Ron who is a zoo-ologist and I gauge it on how my anmails seem.
Plus, the top rated lfs in NJ - Absolutely fish told me that they feed their anemones every other day and some feed every day.
Hogwash to minimal feeding of anemones and the need for metal halide.

 

[murph145]

with my anemones i feed them maybe once a week if that.... and they are doing great and very colorful and big.... my tomato clown will feed my rbta with some krill so i never feed him anything my purple LTA i feed him like i said once a week at the most.... i never worry if i dont feed or not ...

 

[diane4]

They say that clownfish bring food back to their anmeone to feed them. I watch the behavoir of mine.
I don't think they intend to feed their anomone - I think because clownfish stay close to their host anemone because they get protection from other life that may prey on them, they grab food and run back toward their anemone and eat where they feed safe.
I would love to hear from someone that has an aneomone for more than a year and they only feed once a week or less.
And, how many have an anemone more than 1 year and they feed daily or every other day?
Who knows, maybe we are both right and anemones are hardier than we give them credit for. I still believe in what Dr. Ron sais - who can deny what he reports - he said they shoudl be fed alot.

 

[viper_930]

Originally Posted by diane4
If Metal Halide lights are a must for anemones, than can someone explain to me why every pet store I go into does not have MH over the anemones? In fact, the current is low and there is normal PC lighting.
My lfs said MH are definately not a must have for anemone's - they said in fact, it will burn them. It is too much.
The petstores are often either do not know any better, or they are aware of anemones' lighting requirements and know they will not be kept at the shop long. Pet stores are nearly always not an animal's permanent and long term house.
MH lighting [IMO] is a must for certain species of anemones, such as sebaes or carpets. Some others like LTAs, BTAs, or condy anemones can thrive under high PC/VHO lighting. However, for a big tank like a 70 tall, I would recommend MH as a minimum. The cost for enough PC/VHO lights would probably excede/match the cost for a simple MH system anyways.
I have kept my RBTA alive for over 1 year, I think it's been around 14 months now. Not long ago it split For the past 4-5 months I have not been feeding them by hand, and it seems to me that they are still healthy. The zooxanthellae will give the host anemone sugars, but protien is used for growth.
Here's a little history behind this. I started out with 2x65 watts PC and got this RBTA. In a matter of 3-4 months WITH hand feedings 3-4 times weekly it shrunk to half its normal size and looked like it wouldn't make it another week. That's when I finally upgraded to halides and it has fully recovered and each sister anemone looks like when first I got the original mother. Now I'm runningg 1x150W DE MH + 2x65W PC.
Also, as you can see in the pic both anemones are very close to other corals like my prized SPS. IME my RBTAs are completely harmless to my other corals and I have never had a casualty because of an anemone.
I did not have the time to read everything in this thread, so I'm very sorry if I misunderstood something.

 

[murph145]

ive had anemones for over a year and feed them once a week or less....
my clown will grab krill swim back to the anemone and spit it into its tentacles and then the anemone eats it up...
my anemones seem happy the whole debate about feeding im not sure id say feed more if u have less lighting but with good lighting i think feeding doesnt have to happen so much

 

[diane4]

Then, if I hear some of you correctly - you are saying that Dr. Ron Shimek is wrong? He is a zoo-ologist. I don't think I am spelling that right - but you know what I mean.

 

[viper_930]

BTW diane4, can you post pictures of each of your anemones? And how long have you had them. Normally I wouldn't have recommended those anemones, especially the sebae, under that lighting, but I'd like to see how they look with more feeding vs. light.

 

[murph145]

my only casualty was a sebae he only lasted like 3 months i only had pc so i think that was his demise....
i just recently got rid of my other LTA and one of the sister RBTA's because they had gotten so large and were damaging other nearby corals.... all i have now is one rbta and one purple lta.... im thinking of gettin rid of the lta too since hes just too big now...
im not sayin anyone is wrong or right but im sure everyone has different experiences with these creatures and can tell u how theres has done.... some are just doomed from the time of purchase .... i think tank raised anemones are hardier than from the ocean ones too... lots to consider what makes an anemone survive or die...

 

[fishieness]

viper, those pics are amazing
but i think this thread is very very useful for when the time comes where i have the lights/tank to keep an anenome, and i accidentlay unsubscribed to this thread. so im mearly subscribing

 

[diane4]

Viper - nice picture of your guys.
My sabae is the only anemone that doens't seem to be doing well and I won't buy one again. And yes, I will glady take pictures of my other guys to show you how they look.
For starters, here is a pic of my LTA, snow white. AND, the picture was taken with just the actenic lights on.
People keep quoting the author of the Conciencous Marine Aquariast book. Yes, great book, but it doesn't say how often he considers underfeeding, he remains non comital.
Read the article written by Dr. Ron Shimek, he clearly states that anemones need strong lighting in either pc florescent, or metal halide. And he said to feed regularly, every couple days or so.
Dr. ron Shimek's website tallking about the need to feed anemone's regularly
Please read this page from Dr. Shimek and tell me how he is wrong? At least he indicates the frequency, can't say that about the Marine aquriast book I have. The author sounds like he likes to lightly or underfeed many tank inhabitants. If you read through his comments about other fish and animals, he doesn't like to feed. I don't see the author having the title Dr. next to his name.
also, by the way, I don't have them very long, some only a couple weeks, some a couple months. I will take more pictures over the next couple days.
I have a 55 gallon tank with
1 - The state of the art Lunar Aqualight is a compact light fixture with a Blue-Moon-Glow LED light which creates rhythmic glitter and shimmering effects while promoting spawning cycles in corals and other reef life. These fixtures allow you to recreate the effects that both the sun and moon have on sealife. Includes: 96 watt 10,000K Daylight bulb, 96 watt True Actinic 03 Blue bulb and two 3/4 watt Lunar Blue-Moon-Glow LED lamps. Dimensions are 36" x 7" x 2.5".
And
1 - The aqualight is the complete line of compact fluorescent lighting units for your saltwater, reef or freshwater aquariums. The aqualight is a sleek and streamlined fixture, designed to enhance and compliment your aquarium. The compact and low profile style is equipped with a modern aluminum housing and a highly-polished reflector for optimal lighting. It also includes a protective acrylic lens cover and coralife compact fluorescent lamps 96 watt coralife 50/50 compact fluorescent lamp included.
The two light strips give me 288 wpg / 50 gallon tank (only about 45 gallons of water) = 6.4 wpg. Plenty of light, low heat - 1 unit with a fan and distributed well over the tank. Most animals are raised 1/2 way up the tank with live rock, so therefore they are not far from the light source, which also helps.
I see the metal halide lamps in the lfs and they are very hot, which ads burdent to keeping the tank temp under control of the heat. And, if metal halide is required for anemones, then why does every lfs that I go into never have anemones under metal halide lamps? And minimal current.
The animals I notice being a must for metal halide are the clams, hammers, bubble coral etc. Not anemones.
I haven't heard anyone dispute what Dr. Shimik has to say about lighting and feeding. As far as lighting goes, he states that strong light is required for them, metal halide or a strong lamp system like I have.

 

[viper_930]

Originally Posted by diane4
And, if metal halide is required for anemones, then why does every lfs that I go into never have anemones under metal halide lamps? And minimal current.
The animals I notice being a must for metal halide are the clams, hammers, bubble coral etc. Not anemones.
LFS are only temporary pit stops and not permanent homes for anemones. Same reason why big tangs are stuffed into little 30g tanks at the shops.
All hosting-species of anemones actually are, IMO, more light-demanding than hammers, bubbles, and other LPS corals. It's no suprise to me that only your sebae anemone, the most light-loving of all your anemones, is doing badly. But then again, I'd assume it's all the way on the bottom on the sand? That's one reason why I recommend MH for sebaes and carpets, because they prefer the sand.
I wasn't trying to say Dr. Shimek is wrong, everything I say is just my opinion or experience.

 

[diane4]

Viper, and I appreciate your post and correspondance.
That is what I do love about this forum. Even though there are many opinions about different aspects of fish/invert keeping, I strongly believe that the common goal among the folks on this forum is for the well being of our inahbitants. We all mean well. Even if we are mis-informed, listen to only the first point of advise, the second, or none.
When I first entered the saltwater keeping world, and then reef, I felt...and sometimes still do, feel overwhelmed with the detail involved in the care, the importance of water quality and accuracy of params and worse yet, the differences of opinions.
We are all pasionate about our hobby, and most people believe their way is the only and right way - I try to stay out of that mindset. But, since there is so much diversity among opinions of some topics, you do need to select what you think is right and go with it.
Anyhow, thank you for the posts Viper. I might come back to you and some others in the future eating my words and break down and buy some metal halide because I lost anemone(s). I hope I don't though. I invested $300 bucks in the lighting I have, as per the recommondation of my lfs. It is disconcerting to go to the forum and learn that most feel metal halide is important. And yet, some do not think it's necessary, as long as you strive for 5-6 watts per gallon as a starting point guide. And then, when you read more, some people say that the watts per gallon isn't a good guide because the type of lighting and depth placement of the animals factor in.
:notsure:

Oh well, I try.

 

[drea]

um, a lil confused... i'll wait on my 70 g which is doing great right now, but i want to put enough light on my 25 to support shrooms, zoos, an anemone..etc... what is the min i can go with? i've heard of a 95 watt? and will i need moon lights?

 

[mudplayerx]

Ever notice that most, if not all the anemones in the lfs are white? It is due to the starvation of the zooxanthellae symbiotic algae that requires metal halide to survive.
Take any of those anemones home and put them under mh lighting, and they will changes colors in under a month, quite possibly in under a week.
Anemones really should not be kept at all. They aren't suited for aquariums. Come to think of it, I have never been to a state-run aquarium that contained anemones. They live hundreds of years in the wild...but I am almost certain that the longest living anemone in captivity is well under 20 years old.

 

[viper_930]

Originally Posted by drea
um, a lil confused... i'll wait on my 70 g which is doing great right now, but i want to put enough light on my 25 to support shrooms, zoos, an anemone..etc... what is the min i can go with? i've heard of a 95 watt? and will i need moon lights?
It's my opinion and experience that even 2x65W PC lights with 2-3 day-per-week feedings isn't enough. Go with 3x65W PC, or better yet a single 70 or 150 watt double-ended halide.

 

[mudplayerx]

Wanted to add that I do have two anemones, so I am sort of a hypocrite. However, I got them about 9 months ago way before I knew much about the hobby. Here is a pic of my two.

 

[diane4]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
Come to think of it, I have never been to a state-run aquarium that contained anemones. They live hundreds of years in the wild...but I am almost certain that the longest living anemone in captivity is well under 20 years old.
The NJ State Camden aquarium has anemones.

 

[drea]

cool, thanx for the info...