More help needed...Is this even ich? BETH!! LION!!!

[sac10918]

Hi there...
So last week I thought my clowns had ich...I even posted a pic (the best i could get) and others thought it was ick as well. I went out and got everything i need for a qt tank. I have been slowly lowering salinity over the past week it is now at 1.014 and I am trying to get it done to 1.009 over the next two days...I have been very dilligent with water changes after feedings, i do at least one but often two changes per day. The fish looked better for few days after going in (i couldnt see their spots) but today I came home and they look aweful!
It looks as if their skin is peeling off, especially aroudn their face.
Here are the specs...
10 gallon Qt tank with two clowns and a biclor
79 degrees
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
pH is about 8-8.2
alkalinity is about 5 or 6 (which is a little low I think...How can I safely raise it?)
Phosphates 0.5 or less (hard to read)
I add a few drops of PRIME to the new water when I add it which is supposed to remove chloramines and chlorines (even though I use RO water) and assist in breaking down ammonia and nitrite (also supposed to help slime coat)...
I also have phosban reactor with charcoal on the tank, and good circulation, a biowheel filter (which I added live bacteria too the first day)....
I have a refractometer which I have been using...
Please tell me if this is just a stage of the ich coming off the fish, or if you feel like it may be a problem with the water, or perhaps it isnt even ich? The other possibility would be brooklynella but I believe that kills really fast and they have had this for about 9 days.... PLEASE HELP ME!

 

[lion_crazz]

Yep,looks like brooklynella to me, but it is hard to be positive because of the angle that the pics were taken.
Can you maybe post a few more pics to be sure?

 

[sac10918]

BROOKLYNELLA!!!
Lion, wouldnt they be dead by now. I have read that it kills within hours to days.... They have had it for nine days now....!

 

[sac10918]

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by sac10918
BROOKLYNELLA!!!
Lion, wouldnt they be dead by now. I have read that it kills within hours to days.... They have had it for nine days now....!
Usually they would be, but strange things happen in this hobby. I once treated a puffer who had velvet and he had it for 2 weeks. They say that if you don't begin treating velvet within the first few days, there is little to no hope. Well, let me tell you, the puffer I treated had velvet for 2 weeks and recovered from it wonderfully. Some fish just have a stronger immune system than others.
Brooklynella is what I would say judging from the pics.
Formalin baths are the most common and effective treatment for brooklynella.

 

[sac10918]

Is it possible for the lowered salinity to cause a slime molt which would look like this? If it is brooklynella, I will be treating with formalin tomorrow. I am going to add some rid ich tonight (all I have) just to alleviate any symptoms and help them get through until tomorrow....
I will by formalin tomorrow and start them on the treatment as outlined in this forum by beth. I have been lowering the salinity this past week to treat what I thought was ick...If it is brooklynella, should I begin raising my salinity back up to 1.024 or leave it where it is?

 

[lion_crazz]

Well, you could have ich as well. When you originally did the QT, did you notice signs of ich on him at all?

 

[sac10918]

Lion,
Are you saying he could have ich and brooklynella at the same time? Yes, the clowns had visible white markings on them before entering the QT. I posted some pictures on a previous thread called "I cant tell whats wrong with my fish" and you helped me then. It looked as if it were ich...no with the shedding skin, it looks like brook.

 

[lion_crazz]

It's possible that both could be in the water. You could have brought ich in from the one fish, and brook in from the other. The difference is that brooklynella is "markings" and ich is usually spots or white specks on the body.
I remember helping you in the other thread, but if I can remmeber right, the picture wasn't the clearest.
Right now, it absolutely looks like it is suffering from brooklynella, so that is what I would treat for. You just need to figure out if it had ich at any point. Or, you could slowly bring the SG back to normal levels and treat the fish for brooklynella first and then leave in QT for another few weeks and monitor to see if indeed he had or has ich. If you see any signs of ich, you could then hypo, as you would have the brooklynella taken care of. The brook is your first concern though.

 

[sac10918]

I am going to dip them tonight....I hope they can make it until then....
My only confuision is this, If I dip them in formailin as beth describes, after the procedure is over they will be going back into the quarantine tank...
Wont the brooklynella still be in that water and latch onto them again?

 

[lion_crazz]

When Beth was asked this question, she said, "Brooklynella does not live in your tank, it is transmitted more directly from fish to fish." That does not really solve the question at hand though. I consulted Bob Fenner and he said, "I would run a dip/bath and move the animal to a newly cleaned/sterilized system to avoid cross-contamination." Urgh, I can only imagine how irritating this probably is for you.
The correct dose of formalin is 1ml or 1cc per gallon of dip water. This is 20 drops per gallon. The dip should last 45 minutes and must be aerated during treatment. The procedure should be repeated every other day for 3 to 5 treatments. Disguard treatment water after each bath.

 

[sac10918]

I have searched every where for the 37% solution and it is not to be found. All I could find was formalin 3 which has only 3% formaldehyde... Will this even be effective. IT does give directions on the bottle for doing a dip but I am not sure if it will be effective due to the low dose of formaldehyde....Any recomendations on how many drops to use per gallon to get it up to the right concentration....I am scared to do this because I know it is toxic and I dont want to overdose them...
Also, can I put all three fish in one bucket to treat or do they each need separate treatments..
Thanks

 

[lion_crazz]

You could always try the lower solution for now. What are the instructions on the bottle?
You can put all three fish in the same bucket. Just be absolutely sure to aerate it well.
If you send me an email, I can send you a site of where you can get the 37% solution. EVen if you don't order it online, maybe you could look around LFS' in your area for this product.
Ry84@MSN.com

 

[beth]

Did you just get that clownfish and he showed up with the peeling? If so, he very likely has brooklynella, which you need to treat with formalin, and follow the instruction in the FAQ Thread located at the top of this forum. It looks like brooklynella. Is the fish breathing heavily?

 

[sac10918]

Beth,
I have had the clowns since February and they have been very healthy....
I added a biclor blenny approximately 4 weeks ago and two weeks after adding him I noticed the white spots, scratching, and hanging out near the filter pump. I built a QT and put them in hypo to treat for ich...Now it looks like they have brooklynlella.
I cant find the formalin product you have pictured (I was told it is illegal in CA). I bought some formallin 3. For a dip, it recomends adding 2 teaspons per gallon of water to create 200 mg per liter of formalin. I am going to dip them tonight...
Is this level going to be sufficient to kill the brook because it seems like the 37% formaldehyde you have in the treatment thread at 20 drops would be much stronger. I could try to order that if you thought it was necessary...
Thanks

 

[sac10918]

THe fish have had two formaldehyde dips using the recommended dosage on the formalin 3 bottle. After the first dip, most of the white spots and shedding around their faces had disappeared, after the second dip I can't notice anything. I know this doesnt mean that they are cured or anything, but I am so happy not to see those darn protozoans eating my babies alive! I am going to do two more dips. I do them every other day to give the fish a break. They are also in hypo just in case they have some ich too. I am planning on keeping them in there until the first week of JUNE (7 weeks), then they can go into their new home. I have had a cycling 24 gallon aquapod that has been cycling for five or six weeks. I bought some new sand though because it seemed as if the sand had no live bacteria in it. THank you to lion crazz for all your help!

 

[lion_crazz]

I am glad it is working out for you! Please keep us posted on their progress. Make sure to keep their diet superb while they are in treatment. This will help a lot.

 

[sac10918]

Lion,
As far as their diet is concerned, what would you recommend. I have been feeding them mostly flake food called tetra marine. I have frozen cyclopeze, mysis (which they dont seem to really like), formula 1, and homemade fish food. Out of all of these, I would say their favorite is the cyclopeze. However, I have an uncycled quarantine tank and I have been afraid to feed them cyclopeeze since it dissolves all over the entire tank and their would most likely be some uneaten pieces floating around (whereas with the flake food, If their is an uneaten piece I can vacuum it up with ease). Do you think I should try the cyclopezee or perhaps buy another flake food? Can you recommend a good one to try? Thanks

 

[beth]

Its hard to believe that clowns that you have had for a long time could suddenly come down with brook. Even so, be sure to complete this treatment as detailed in the FAQ Thread. Are they in a QT now?

 

[lion_crazz]

There are plenty of good flake foods out there if that is what you like to feed your fish. I like the Omega One more than Tetra Marine products. They make a lot of good flake foods, both meaty and herbivorous. Check out what your LFS has for saltwater fish. I can't really advise you too much on specific flake foods because I am a frozen food guy. I would try using a pinch of the cyclopeze. See how it works for you.