More troops for Afghanistan?
- Thread starter zman1
- Start date
bionicarm
Active Member
Obama started pressing the move to Afghanistan because in his mind (among many others), that's where the War Against Terror should've been fought in the first place. However, it appears Al Qaeda has shifted it's concentration over to Pakistan, the Taliban are kicking their heels up again, and the last election in Afghanistan was pretty much a bust. The lastest US Poll shows 6 out of 10 Americans think the Afghanistan surge is a waste of time and money. Everyone would love to see Bin Laden's head on a stake, but he more illusive than Houdini.
be2lose
Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3141501
If he needs a trillion dollars give it to him, too?
He is asking for more troops or to give up. He does not have enough people to get his job done and wants direction.
Stay or go?
Should we be there at all is another topic.
http:///forum/post/3141501
If he needs a trillion dollars give it to him, too?
He is asking for more troops or to give up. He does not have enough people to get his job done and wants direction.
Stay or go?
Should we be there at all is another topic.
zman1
Active Member
That comment was for my buddy Reef
I wanted to see if he would blindly commit to a trillion just because someone said he needed it, or would he challenge the need with direct and supported examples and measurable results before just saying -- YES, if you say you need it, by gosh you should have it.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3141538
That comment was for my buddy Reef
I wanted to see if he would blindly commit to a trillion just because someone said he needed it, or would he challenge the need with direct and supported examples and measurable results before just saying -- YES, if you say you need it, by gosh you should have it.
If the guy placed in charge says it will take more troops to accomplish his goal give them to him. If the politicians don't think that goal will serve the stated purpose they need to change it. When politicians like Obama who isn't even qualified to do his own job get involved in other people's it isn't going to have a good outcome.
http:///forum/post/3141538
That comment was for my buddy Reef
If the guy placed in charge says it will take more troops to accomplish his goal give them to him. If the politicians don't think that goal will serve the stated purpose they need to change it. When politicians like Obama who isn't even qualified to do his own job get involved in other people's it isn't going to have a good outcome.
zman1
Active Member
We should challenge any request for that matter, everything, shouldn’t we? Heck, if we all didn’t, health care reform would be a done deal and there would be world peace. I don’t want to have to dig up old youtube clips again to support my comment. SAY IT AINT SO Reef..
I do like debating you , you don’t take it personal, neither do I.
I do like debating you , you don’t take it personal, neither do I.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Iraqm I truly careless about at this point...we did what I thought was needed to be done...removal of hussein and his regime....everything after that didn't matter to me really....However the compassionate side of me felt we should stay in Iraq and help rebuild since we were the cause of their destruction and many of those people just want to be left alone.
Afghanistan to me is a different theatre. I am still pissed at Bush for half assing that job. We went in afghanistan to get Justice. The Taliban were and are huge supportters of terroism and terrorists. Especially to those responsible for the deaths of over 3000 americans. I don't care if hold afghanistan and turn it into a democracy. However we do not leave until the taliban is nothing but a forgotten group of corpses. And we have Bin Laden served on a dish.
That war is about justice for the innocents.....ours and the average citizen of that country...a year and a half ago the country was relatively quiet....now it is scaling back up for several reasons. Nato and the U.N. have scaled back their troops. We are trying to fill the vaccuum, however nato/UN also had us go defensive......which is stupid considering we never had a solid hold on the situation. Once we went defensive that was the turrning point. We bacame to worried about collateral damage/innocent bystanders. No wonder we haven't truly won a significant war since WW2. In that war we ponded our enemy into submition and absolute defeat. If you weren't helping us you were against us......Now, we worry about citizens that aren't helping us......half the time they are supportting the enemy...yet we are to be concerned over their safety. Until we as a nation are willing to view a war in this fashion again, we will never win another one....neither will any western country for that matter.....I can't think of a NATO/UN joint effort that has succeeded under those conditions or even any of the so called "peace keeping" missions......
Give them the troops if they need them...but at the same point, take the gloves off and let us fight with both hands instead of with just one......if we don't do this, all the trops we stationed around the world won't matter. Afghanistan is not like Iraq where they have natural resources and infrastructure already to help show the locals a potential future.
So my point is this...did we really mean it when we (as a collective whole) felt we needed to get those responsible for and gave aid for 9/11 to bring justice o for the people that were cruelly slain on that fateful day as innocent civilians. To me justice has no price tag in this regard. Maybe I need to change my avatar to remind some people....
Editted to add this. Excuse the mispellings...Afghanistan and 9/11 are a touchy subject I get passionate about...and don't take the time to even semi proof read or spell check....but the post gets out my point.
Afghanistan to me is a different theatre. I am still pissed at Bush for half assing that job. We went in afghanistan to get Justice. The Taliban were and are huge supportters of terroism and terrorists. Especially to those responsible for the deaths of over 3000 americans. I don't care if hold afghanistan and turn it into a democracy. However we do not leave until the taliban is nothing but a forgotten group of corpses. And we have Bin Laden served on a dish.
That war is about justice for the innocents.....ours and the average citizen of that country...a year and a half ago the country was relatively quiet....now it is scaling back up for several reasons. Nato and the U.N. have scaled back their troops. We are trying to fill the vaccuum, however nato/UN also had us go defensive......which is stupid considering we never had a solid hold on the situation. Once we went defensive that was the turrning point. We bacame to worried about collateral damage/innocent bystanders. No wonder we haven't truly won a significant war since WW2. In that war we ponded our enemy into submition and absolute defeat. If you weren't helping us you were against us......Now, we worry about citizens that aren't helping us......half the time they are supportting the enemy...yet we are to be concerned over their safety. Until we as a nation are willing to view a war in this fashion again, we will never win another one....neither will any western country for that matter.....I can't think of a NATO/UN joint effort that has succeeded under those conditions or even any of the so called "peace keeping" missions......
Give them the troops if they need them...but at the same point, take the gloves off and let us fight with both hands instead of with just one......if we don't do this, all the trops we stationed around the world won't matter. Afghanistan is not like Iraq where they have natural resources and infrastructure already to help show the locals a potential future.
So my point is this...did we really mean it when we (as a collective whole) felt we needed to get those responsible for and gave aid for 9/11 to bring justice o for the people that were cruelly slain on that fateful day as innocent civilians. To me justice has no price tag in this regard. Maybe I need to change my avatar to remind some people....
Editted to add this. Excuse the mispellings...Afghanistan and 9/11 are a touchy subject I get passionate about...and don't take the time to even semi proof read or spell check....but the post gets out my point.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3141565
We should challenge any request for that matter, everything, shouldn’t we? Heck, if we all didn’t, health care reform would be a done deal and there would be world peace. I don’t want to have to dig up old youtube clips again to support my comment. SAY IT AINT SO Reef..
I do like debating you , you don’t take it personal, neither do I.
I have worked on several political campaigns and even made a serious run for office once. Lost by 9 votes and if I knew who they were I'd buy them a steak
One thing you have to learn very quickly is don't take it personal, don't make it personal. I don't think there is a person on this board I wouldn't enjoy throwing back a beer or 20 with.
http:///forum/post/3141565
We should challenge any request for that matter, everything, shouldn’t we? Heck, if we all didn’t, health care reform would be a done deal and there would be world peace. I don’t want to have to dig up old youtube clips again to support my comment. SAY IT AINT SO Reef..
I do like debating you , you don’t take it personal, neither do I.
I have worked on several political campaigns and even made a serious run for office once. Lost by 9 votes and if I knew who they were I'd buy them a steak
aw2x3
Active Member
As a person who spent 19 months in Iraq and 17 months in Afganistan, I have alot to say about the whole situation.
But, after I read what everyone said...and then read what Darth posted, I don't really think I could say anymore than what Darth said.
I wholeheartedly agree, with everything he said, in the post above.
Thank you, Darth "kickin' ass and taking names later" Tang.
But, after I read what everyone said...and then read what Darth posted, I don't really think I could say anymore than what Darth said.
I wholeheartedly agree, with everything he said, in the post above.
Thank you, Darth "kickin' ass and taking names later" Tang.
reefraff
Active Member
Our big mistake in Vietnam was trying to fight a kinder, gentler war. If we don't have the will to do what it takes to wipe out the Taliban then we should pack up and go home. I think the only way we can really eliminate the threat would be to permanently occupy Afghanistan. Without a stable government with a strong economic base the taliban is just going to keep coming back.
I think the real problem is the utter failure of the United Nations. If it could properly function as intended the African problems would be a whole lot less and the middle east would also be a lot more stable. A force made up of troops from Muslim countries under the guidance of the UN stationed in the middle east could solve a whole lot of issues. The UN also enforcing their own mandates an sanctions would have prevented the Iraq war and would keep Iran from getting a nuke.
I think the real problem is the utter failure of the United Nations. If it could properly function as intended the African problems would be a whole lot less and the middle east would also be a lot more stable. A force made up of troops from Muslim countries under the guidance of the UN stationed in the middle east could solve a whole lot of issues. The UN also enforcing their own mandates an sanctions would have prevented the Iraq war and would keep Iran from getting a nuke.
bionicarm
Active Member
By the looks of it, Obama is telling the UN Council that it's no longer America's responsibility to fix all the world's problems by itself:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32979199...united_nations
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32979199...united_nations
ironeagle2006
Active Member
Hell the only things Terrorists understand is FORCE and OVERWHELMING AMOUNTS OF IT and Symbolism. If we want to STOP THEM COLD here is how we could have done it in 2001 instead of going after Afghanastan we should have gone after MECCA MEDINA AND THE MOUND ON THE ROCK. The 3 hoilest sites of all of Islam. Bush should have told the world this is our respone for the attack on the World Trade Center and LEVELED MECCA. Then gone this is our response to the Attack on the Pentagon and Leveled the Mound on the Rock. Then looked in the camera and told the world you have 2 days to deliver all of Al-Queda and stop all further attacks on Isreal and all planned future attacks on the West or Medina will get the same as Mecca just recieved. THERE WILL BE NO NEOGOTATION ON THIS AT ALL OR FURTHER DELAY OF THE DEADLINES. Failure to turn him over will result in the US Military going on a massive Strike around the world against any and all Terrorist groups and their Sponsoring nations.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3142068
Hell the only things Terrorists understand is FORCE and OVERWHELMING AMOUNTS OF IT and Symbolism. If we want to STOP THEM COLD here is how we could have done it in 2001 instead of going after Afghanastan we should have gone after MECCA MEDINA AND THE MOUND ON THE ROCK. The 3 hoilest sites of all of Islam. Bush should have told the world this is our respone for the attack on the World Trade Center and LEVELED MECCA. Then gone this is our response to the Attack on the Pentagon and Leveled the Mound on the Rock. Then looked in the camera and told the world you have 2 days to deliver all of Al-Queda and stop all further attacks on Isreal and all planned future attacks on the West or Medina will get the same as Mecca just recieved. THERE WILL BE NO NEOGOTATION ON THIS AT ALL OR FURTHER DELAY OF THE DEADLINES. Failure to turn him over will result in the US Military going on a massive Strike around the world against any and all Terrorist groups and their Sponsoring nations.
There is a better way to handle it than starting a holy war.
http:///forum/post/3142068
Hell the only things Terrorists understand is FORCE and OVERWHELMING AMOUNTS OF IT and Symbolism. If we want to STOP THEM COLD here is how we could have done it in 2001 instead of going after Afghanastan we should have gone after MECCA MEDINA AND THE MOUND ON THE ROCK. The 3 hoilest sites of all of Islam. Bush should have told the world this is our respone for the attack on the World Trade Center and LEVELED MECCA. Then gone this is our response to the Attack on the Pentagon and Leveled the Mound on the Rock. Then looked in the camera and told the world you have 2 days to deliver all of Al-Queda and stop all further attacks on Isreal and all planned future attacks on the West or Medina will get the same as Mecca just recieved. THERE WILL BE NO NEOGOTATION ON THIS AT ALL OR FURTHER DELAY OF THE DEADLINES. Failure to turn him over will result in the US Military going on a massive Strike around the world against any and all Terrorist groups and their Sponsoring nations.
There is a better way to handle it than starting a holy war.
jackri
Active Member
So if a couple of Catholics attacked us we should have taken out the Vatican?
Don't lump all of a group in together and start something you can't finish. Nothing like having a billion muslims mad at us versus thousands of radicals.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for leveling the cave/mountain that Bin Laden is in.
Don't lump all of a group in together and start something you can't finish. Nothing like having a billion muslims mad at us versus thousands of radicals.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for leveling the cave/mountain that Bin Laden is in.
ironeagle2006
Active Member
Yet why is it that you think my way would be a start of a Holy War. It would not be for one reason the Non Radicals would be going to the Clerics and the Radicals and to the Mullahs and Everyone else and SCREAMING either turn them over OR WE WILL. The 95% that are peaceful of the Islamic faith and I have many friends in the Muslim Community all told me the same thing you take out 2 of the 3 holiest sites in Islam and threaten the other with Destruction for failure to turn over Osama Bin Laden trust me there is NO NATION IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD THAT WOULD WANT THAT HANGING ON THEM. Would you want to be the President and Supreme Leader of Iran knowing that YOU are responsible for the Destruction of the Birthplace of the Prophet Mohummed all because you refused to stop Supporting Hamas and Hellzbullah. Trust me there is not enough ammo in your nation for as many times as they would haul you to the wall.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3142147
Yet why is it that you think my way would be a start of a Holy War. It would not be for one reason the Non Radicals would be going to the Clerics and the Radicals and to the Mullahs and Everyone else and SCREAMING either turn them over OR WE WILL. The 95% that are peaceful of the Islamic faith and I have many friends in the Muslim Community all told me the same thing you take out 2 of the 3 holiest sites in Islam and threaten the other with Destruction for failure to turn over Osama Bin Laden trust me there is NO NATION IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD THAT WOULD WANT THAT HANGING ON THEM. Would you want to be the President and Supreme Leader of Iran knowing that YOU are responsible for the Destruction of the Birthplace of the Prophet Mohummed all because you refused to stop Supporting Hamas and Hellzbullah. Trust me there is not enough ammo in your nation for as many times as they would haul you to the wall.
What do you think Catholics would do if someone bombed the vatican? If we bombed Mecca it would be an all out war with every Muslim on the planet. Even the reasonable ones. You can't take out what amounts to their super bowl, hall of fame, apple pie and mother rolled into one and expect them to just smile and take it.
http:///forum/post/3142147
Yet why is it that you think my way would be a start of a Holy War. It would not be for one reason the Non Radicals would be going to the Clerics and the Radicals and to the Mullahs and Everyone else and SCREAMING either turn them over OR WE WILL. The 95% that are peaceful of the Islamic faith and I have many friends in the Muslim Community all told me the same thing you take out 2 of the 3 holiest sites in Islam and threaten the other with Destruction for failure to turn over Osama Bin Laden trust me there is NO NATION IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD THAT WOULD WANT THAT HANGING ON THEM. Would you want to be the President and Supreme Leader of Iran knowing that YOU are responsible for the Destruction of the Birthplace of the Prophet Mohummed all because you refused to stop Supporting Hamas and Hellzbullah. Trust me there is not enough ammo in your nation for as many times as they would haul you to the wall.
What do you think Catholics would do if someone bombed the vatican? If we bombed Mecca it would be an all out war with every Muslim on the planet. Even the reasonable ones. You can't take out what amounts to their super bowl, hall of fame, apple pie and mother rolled into one and expect them to just smile and take it.