mormons

T

tizzo

Guest
I don't mind anyone knocking on the door. I'll talk to anybody. Jahova's, mormons, etc... But ironically I have about 3 questions for the mormon kids that gets them all confused and they never come back.

I am willing to "learn" what anybody believes, I do not feel threatened with my own beliefs if I do. And I try to tell them right up front, I am not debating, I am sincere with my questions, and one guy kept coming back, but he knew he wasn't ever gonna convert me, lol.
And Tangman, if you come to my church, I will be more than happy to return your intersts and have a cigar and a top shelf liquor with you out by the pool, LOL. But for some reason, I don't think you would. haha
Well, I'll still have that cigar and drink.

Well truefishman, it looks like either nobody here is mormon, or they won't step up and admit it.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by Truefishman
http:///forum/post/2570326
well guys before i went to school i posted this thread and when i got home it was deleted because it was going in the wrong direction michael tx and i wanted it to go
so lets try it aging going the right way
who on these boards are mormons?
who here are investigating the church?
i would just like to know
I am not mormon but non denomination and somewhat fall under the penti and assembly.
I have studied mormonism to a certain degree and have some questions for you such as the "cleansing off the elders in the church in Utah" The baptism into mormonism of people whom have already passed and the act in which a mormon elder will take the place of the deceased and be baptised into mormonism where does it say to change someones belife in the 'BIBLE" and to baptise them into a faith in which they did not have faith in.
Shortly after the establishment of the church, Smith moved to Kirtland Mills, Ohio, where he hoped to establish the kingdom of God on earth. A banking panic in 1837 caused the economic collapse of the Kirtland settlement, and this, together with spreading rumors of polygamy, caused many Mormons to leave the church. Smith headed west to Missouri. Within a year, a civil war broke out between Smith's followers and their neighbors who feared their growing political might. The governor of Missouri ordered the Mormons to leave the state. I can go into his being sought after by the judicial system as well but people can look that up on their own.
Originally Posted by alexmir

http:///forum/post/2570493
I do not like to be bothered either, i feel that some people are definitely a little pushy from my church when inviting people to church. BUT, i do understand that they are simply trying to minister to people, and give them "their truth" in hopes of saving them.
There are people that would not go to a church unless someone came and invited them.....So it works for some, and angers others.
I am not a mormon, i am pentecostal. I do not associate with the pentecostal religion or organizations though, because i do not see the reasoning behind standards and beliefs set by some people. I simply go to a pentecostal church because i adore the pastor, he is a wonderful man, and i do not feel that my church looks at surface of people or focuses on rules that religious Big Wigs made. My outlook is that i follow everything in the bible, and take gods word as examples, not absolutes.
Legalism kills as does religion.. Religious zealots are what we see in the middle east. Christians and by Christians I am stating those following under the word of GOD being the bible beliving it to be the one true word and Beliving Jesus Christ died on the cross was reserected 3 days later and is at the side of his father our father GOD to be actually known as "YAHWEH and his sone Jeusus whichh is not his name ass their was no "J" in their alphabet Jesus really is "Yeshua"
People can say they are aliens it does not make it so and the Christian church being the penti/bap/assembly/non denoms etc do not belive the mormons to be Christians but rather an occult in which they follow a man not YAHWEH. I can elaborate more if need be.
Originally Posted by Truefishman
http:///forum/post/2570527
we are also considered christian
christians believe in three people
heavinly father,jesus christ,and the holy ghost but what they believe that we dont is that they believe that they are all one person
what we believe is that they are 3 separate biengs
Then you do not belive what Christians belive as it is the Trinity in which Christians belive.
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2570540
Not all christians believe that there are 3 seperate beings. I am a pentecostal, and believe GOD is 1 being, not 3.
The main difference between mormons and christians is that they believe in a book that was written by a man who believed to have recieved a word from an angel. Then wrote down what he heard and it is now the book of mormon.
It is not the same people can dress it up anyway they want but it is no way the same.
Originally Posted by MaTT B

http:///forum/post/2570549
I do not go to church, I used to but havent lately. I think there is a god,jesus was a great man, and all that good stuff. I do not get why every religion is so crazy about the details? AND the other thing I HATE about some religious is when they think your going to hell and are a horrible person if you do not believe the same as them.
to each his own
Real Christians preach GRACE... I have news for ya. If you smoke or drink a beer your not going to the pits of hell.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2570849
lol... not quite... they do believe that joseph smith went into the forest and found some "golden tablets" that no one has ever seen except for a "chosen few"... and from these "tablets" the book of mormon was written two different times and not quite the same way both times...
one of the strangest beliefs is that woman can only be called up to the mans "heavenly planet" by serving her man to his total wants/needs/desires...

At least 5 earlier written drafts of the first vision exist and the knowledge of these highly conflicting versions have been repressed by Mormon leaders because they conflict with the currently accepted version. The Lewis brothers wrote that Joseph Smith originally told them that the heavenly visitation was in a dream, not a vision. (letter of Hill & Joseph Lewis, April 23 1894). The first account says that there was only one heavenly person, the second says there were many, the third says there were two. (The Changing World of Mormonism, Tanner and Tanner, pp 10, 149-155). Joseph Smith later wrote that the vision "was the cause of great persecution...and this was common to all the sects" even though a modern revue of all the local newspapers of that time turned up no hints at all of all the other churches persecuting him. (No Man Knows My History, Fawn Brodie p 23) Also, in spite of having allegedly being told not to join any church, he temporarily joined the Methodist church in 1828. (BYU Sudies, Spring 1969 p 384)
 

fats71

Active Member
"The gold plates which Joseph Smith allegedly received from an angel and translated with the use of a seer stone from "reformed Egyptian" to English which told of a group of Jews sailing to America in 600B.C. where they established a civilization and were known as "Nephites". The translation became entitled The Book Of Mormon. Truth: We have no testimony from anyone other than 11 mormons that the gold plates ever did exist, and they are nowhere to be seen now. He didn't translate to reformed Egyptian because no such language is known of by archaeologists. In direct contradiction to the bible, it states that Jesus was bom in Jerusalem (Alma 7:9-10) and not in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matthew 2:1) and that the darkness after Jesus crucifixion lasted 3 days (Helaman 14:20) and not 3 hours (Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33). Also there has not been found any archaeological evidence to validate the existence of the Nephite civilization that supposedly lasted 1000 years. Because of this obvious lack, some mormons grasp at straws and even claim that the ancient temples in the Yucatan peninsula were built by the Nephites even though archaeologists say that they were built around 1000 AD which is 600 years past the date of the end of the supposed Nephite civilization. John C. Sorenson, Chairman of Brigham Young University Anthropology Department describes some of the most popular books among Mormons on the subject of archaeology and geography as "naive", "harmful", and as "cut-and-paste.. efforts". He also said "There is plenty of evidence that the Latter Day Saints are gullible on many subjects, not just this one." ("Instant Expertise on Book of Mormon Archaeology" in BYU Studies Spring 1976 pp 429-432) Mormon archaeologist professor Dee F. Green said "The first myth we need to eliminate is that Book of Mormon archaeology exists" (Dialogue op. cit., Summer 1969 pp 77-78). Dr Richard Phales, author, lecturer, and archaeologist, said "We have never excavated one single artifact that even remotely relates to this alleged civilization that the Mormons claim existed in the U.S., Central America, and S. America" (video, The God Makers, 1982 Jerimiah Films). Allegedly two groups (numbering 3 and 8) of Mormons saw the gold plates. The first group of 3 were also the ones who ordained all of the first 12 apostles to the Mormon church. All 3 eventually renounced Mormonism and were called by Joseph Smith "too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them'' (Joseph Smith: History of the Church Vol 3 pg 232) and "liars, cheats, and blacklegs". Only 3 of the 11 stayed in Mormonism, all 3 being Smiths. Most of the 11 were known to be very unstable and unreliable, always having fantastic visions and jumping from one religion to another (The God Makers, Decker & Hunt p102). Also, the Book of Mormon suspiciously contains hundreds of quotations from the King James version of The Bible (and even whole chapters; compare Isaiah chapters 2-14 to 2 Nephi chapters12-24, Isa 48-49 to 1 Nephi 20-21, Isa 50-51 to 2 Nephi 7-8). The alleged prophet Nephi allegedly made the gold plates in 600-500 B.C. but the King James version wasn't published until 1611 AD. Either Nephi lacked enough to write about and so magically transported to the future to copy out of the bible, or Joseph Smith copied out of the King James Bible (which was available to him) in order to enhance his fictitious story with the words of true prophets in order to fool those who weren't familiar enough with their bible to know that it had been copied. J S made it very obvious that he did copy from the bible by keeping the same bible chapter divisions and verse numbers and also kept the same words italicized! J S was also found out to be a fraudulent "translator" of ancient manuscripts by 3 men in 1843 who brought to him six thin brass plates which they had made to look like ancient plates with phony hieroglyphics on them. J S began to "translate" them using his seer stone and said they "contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh.'' After the death of J S the 3 men made public the hoax which was then confirmed by experts. University of Chicago professor James Breasted wrote: "The Kinderhook plates are, of course, childish forgeries, as the scientific world has known for years. ... Where we can check up on Smith as a translator of plates, he is found guilty of deception. How can we trust him with reference to his claims about the Book Of Mormon?"
 

fats71

Active Member
(The Book Of Mormon? James Bales 1958 pp 95, 97-99) Martin Harris, the financier of J S when he was ''translating" the gold plates, asked J S for a list of the egyptian characters found in them (because J S would let no one look at the plates) so that he could have them checked out by a professor and hopefully have his doubts alleviated. Charles Anthon, professor of Greek and Latin at Columbia College, studied them and later wrote that the paper "consisted of all kinds of crooked characters disposed in columns, and had evidently been prepared by some person who had before him at the time a book containing various alphabets. Greek and Hebrew letters, crosses and flourishes, Roman letters inverted or placed sideways, were arranged in perpindicular columns, and the whole ended in a rude delineation of a circle divided into various compartments, decked with various strange marks, and evidently copied after the Mexican calendar by Humbolt, but copied in such a way as not to betray the source whence it was derived" (No Man Knows My History, Fawn Brodie p 51). Joseph Smith said "Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none." (Teachings of the Prophet, Joseph Smith p 71)"
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Folks, let's remember the OP is 13.
Also, while discussing different religious beliefs is fine, let's avoid saying anything that could be constrused as "I am right, you are wrong".
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by nacl freak
http:///forum/post/2570944
In response to door to door I don't remember a time [please correct me if I'M wrong] when Jesus or God instructed us to go door to door. Instructions to tell the world, yes. Our role model is Jesus. I can't remember reading of a time Jesus took his disciples door to door. His ministry was first ministering to the basic needs, then spritual needs. People sought him out. If we gave food, shelter, clothing, medical care to those in need, instead of building larger and grander mega buildings for believers to fellowship and worship in, people would seek us out! Just think of how many people could be cared for with the salaries alone. Jesus never ask for or took payment for anything, he gave! I challange you, today, give something to someone in need. Never expecting anything in return, someday you will have an opportunity to witness to that person. God bless all.
We will go out into all the world and preach to all creation it's in the BIBLE check your old testament.
Originally Posted by salty blues

http:///forum/post/2571480
I agree. I think most Christians are taught from the Bible that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost(or Holy Spirit) are one and the same. Jesus was God in human form. The Holy Spirit is the spriritual essence of God.
At least that's my take on it.
"THE TRINITY" Father son and holy ghost
 

fats71

Active Member
I am not being sarcastic or bashing anyone just pointing out my belief as a "Christian" we can go back to around 330 A.D. and go back to when and how we separate and the difference between Christians and other religions.
I will state again nothing is meant to be offensive in any of my comments.
 

sciknen

Member
i have a question.... serious one
what is the difference between like "normal" mormons and the ones that are all over the news now??
do they follow the same book or two totally different ones?
is it like with islam how they "all" share the quran and some just interpret it differently?
and also
the religion that Tom Cruise is in was written by a man randomly..i think he was actually in jail at the time,but dont quote me
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2571922
Folks, let's remember the OP is 13.
Also, while discussing different religious beliefs is fine, let's avoid saying anything that could be constrused as "I am right, you are wrong".
13 years old he is smart enogh to understandd what I am saying I would assume kids today are so much smarter than we were 40 years ago sigh..
I am in no way trying to beat down anyone in this discussion but I am passionate about it as is my life.
Originally Posted by sciknen

http:///forum/post/2572212
i have a question.... serious one
what is the difference between like "normal" mormons and the ones that are all over the news now??
I was stating above some of the things that the elders in the main church do that are kept under wraps for the most part such as the "cleansing" prior to marriage. This is something done that is completelty beyond anything I can say. If you want more read about mormonism and cleansing you will have to search high and low to find it as it is something not discussed. You will only find it from ex-mormons or children of mormons whom practice it. I personally got it from a friend of mine whom his father participates in the main church in UTAH. The one that "we and the just plain folk mormons can not get into" as it is guarded.
do they follow the same book or two totally different ones?
is it like with islam how they "all" share the quran and some just interpret it differently?
Same one just like you have muslims who are zealots and those whom are peacful. The hard core mormons do a lot of things we can not disccuss here due to racisim and many other things that are not to be placed on a forum with the TOS they have.
and also
the religion that Tom Cruise is in was written by a man randomly..i think he was actually in jail at the time,but dont quote me
It is "Scientology" which travolta, Katie Holmes and others are all into..
Interestinng fact about Cruise he considered a career as a Catholic priest before pursuing an acting career
Curise has risen to one of the highest echelons of the Church of Scientology, what is known as 'Operating Thetan Seven' or OT-VII.
This off a religious fact website
The Church of Scientology was founded in 1954 by L. Ron Hubbard, a former science fiction writer. It is perhaps best known for its celebrity adherents, among them Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Leah Remini.
This is from a religious fact site
The Church of Scientology was founded in 1954 by L. Ron Hubbard, a former science fiction writer. It is perhaps best known for its celebrity adherents, among them Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Leah Remini.
Whether Scientology is a "religion" is a matter of debate. Scientology presents itself as a "technology" that leads people to "true spiritual release and freedom." It does not emphasize particular beliefs about God or other traditional religious topics, yet it calls itself a "Church" and presents many of its teachings in spiritual and religious terms. Scientology is also highly controversial, with many regarding it as a dangerous cult or financial scam.
 

reefraff

Active Member
My wife reminded me this morning about a recent visit by the missionaries. She politly pointed out that she had her own faith and was comfortable with the Lutheran church (I tell her I've been to a Christmas service, Easter service and regular service. Nothing else here to see, keep moving
) So anyway she tells them to have a good day and begins to close the door and one of the guys shouts out "I know we're right". Dude's lucky I am cripped up elsewise I would have given him a little Walter Martin smack down.
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2571841
It amazes me that people continue to post offensive comments by making a new account, not realizing we can simply track IPs...
The offender will be dealt with. Sorry to anyone who was offended.
AW! Come on Journeyman! You are taking all the fun out of it. If someone is that stupid to do that, you should post up who really said it so we can have a good forum roasting.
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2571884
And Tangman, if you come to my church, I will be more than happy to return your intersts and have a cigar and a top shelf liquor with you out by the pool, LOL. But for some reason, I don't think you would. haha
Well, I'll still have that cigar and drink.

You have an open invitation any time you want to come have that cigar and drink!
 

fats71

Active Member
When people read the NIV as I do and the KJ versions of the bibles they miss a lot. They should also goto the source and get the The Hebraic Roots Version Scriptures
A translation of the Tanakh/Old Testament from the Hebrew Masoretic Text. Revised from the public domain JPS 1917 edition, and placed together with a revised edition of the Hebrew Roots New Testament (based on Hebrew and Aramaic sources) each with useful footnotes, and an informative preface to the whole work.
This is the true translation. Their are not a lot of huge differences most scriptures read the same just the correct wording is in the Hebraic roots bible.
The best thing however is to read and understand HEBREW.
Attend Shabbat
worship on the true holy days from Friday night at sundown to Saturday sundown. I still goto church on Sunday but i know the true day and we are getting more into that recently actually following the rules GOD set before us. I am non denomination but am more Messianic Christian which simply celebrates The Hebraic Holidays and things like that.
I love to discuss religions. I myself am not a religious person but a follower of Christ. I as stated above believe religions to kill people mentally physically and Spiritually
I have been studying for over 30 years have worked in and thru a lot of churches in many different things. missions/prayer rooms Healing rooms is what hey are called on the border of Mexico ( we setup a place in a flee market and people walk by and come in for prayer ) Lots of different ministries and am evangelical
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by Hangman
http:///forum/post/2572368
You have an open invitation any time you want to come have that cigar and drink!

That is kinda snobbish maybe I likes a nice Liquor and "cough cough cigar" Maybe not the Cigar anymore I used to smoke them frequently but for some reason The last couple times I smoked one the next morning I woke up with bronchitis so maybe my lungs had enough.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2572382
That is kinda snobbish maybe I likes a nice Liquor and "cough cough cigar" Maybe not the Cigar anymore.
yeeeeaaahh Fats, you can come next time.

You'd prolly get bored with him and I talking bikes, and fish and which helmet is the best, and you know... boring stuff.
 
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2571841
It amazes me that people continue to post offensive comments by making a new account, not realizing we can simply track IPs...
The offender will be dealt with. Sorry to anyone who was offended.
Good to hear, seriously
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2572382
That is kinda snobbish maybe I likes a nice Liquor and "cough cough cigar" Maybe not the Cigar anymore I used to smoke them frequently but for some reason The last couple times I smoked one the next morning I woke up with bronchitis so maybe my lungs had enough.
Well, that's a long way to come for a drink, but I think I could whip something up for you. I make a great long Island ice tea but prefer Courvoisier VSOP with my cigars.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by TangMan99
http:///forum/post/2572722
Well, that's a long way to come for a drink, but I think I could whip something up for you. I make a great long Island ice tea but prefer Courvoisier VSOP with my cigars.
A great man once said give me life liberty and a scotch and water. I think that is how it went.
 
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