MUST READ!!! responsible SW hobbiests needed! explanation to 1journeyman

afboundguy

Member
1journeyman
I'm sorry I re-posted but I didn't find out how to private message you and couldn't post because you locked the thread. In no way was I telling people not to buy fish from SWF.com. I even stated that I've had 2 or 3 great experiences purchasing live goods from SWF.com. All I was doing was doing was making it known that people shouldn't purchase these fish blindly because they were cheap. I was merely advocating being responsible.
Over collecting and improper harvesting (especially of hard to keep species) is a major problem in the SW hobby. Look at the legislature that Hawaii is trying to pass by only allowing fish collectors to collect a minute amount of Yellow Tangs (something like 5) {EDIT LINK}
There was a great point brought up in my local forums about how one way to stop over collecting hard to keep species or species that don't fair well in transferring/capturing is to get rid of the demand. As mentioned in my previous thread the 3 species I saw for sale where harder than average species to keep and if one is able to accommodate their needs by all means purchase them. So by making these species $5 bargains you could illicit potential buyers who will just buy them because "they're cheap" which will lead to potential deaths which will lead to possibly more over collecting.
The main point is that I wanted to show was that we need to be responsible and I guess if all that comes out of these two threads is people thinking more about being responsible then it that is a step in the right direction. If you feel like you need to lock this thread up again please do I just wanted to respond and re-iterate that I was not telling people to not buy from SWF.com just urging responsibility because we all need to be responsible in order for this hobby to survive for generations to come.
 

wangotango

Active Member
It's not SWF.com's responsibility for their customers to make the right choices, that's up to the customers. You need to know what the hell you're doing before you get into the hobby, but we all know that people don't make good choices and buy things on impulse. If the people don't buy the fish here they can buy it elsewhere. You can't blame SWF.com for the people who buy on impulse because of an attractive price. We can argue ethics of the hobby all we want but it's not going anywhere.
I'm going to get a glass of water, and I bet I'll see a padlock on the thread when I get back...
-Justin
 

myerst22

Member
What kind of fish are we talking about. I must say that the buyer is the one who is responsible when it comes to taking care of the fish not any retailer. I do have a problem with retailers selling fish that are 'almost' impossible to keep in captivity. For example the orange spot filefish is a obligate sps polyp eater. I know in very very rare cases the fish has been switched onto prepared foods, but again very very rarely. Meanwhile you see them all the time at tons of retailers. Its a common fish that does not command a high price that is very attractive. If the retailer had some decency not to make these fish available then the un-educated fish keeper wouldn't have the opportunity to buy them in the first place. My 2 cents for what there worth. Regards, Tim
 

myerst22

Member
Also in response to legislation in Hawaii, the bill that was proposed was filed with data that had no substance and scientific evidence to back it up. The yellow tangs collected are on the smaller size for the most part and not of breeding size and they are in no way threatened in Hawaiian waters. It was just a politician being a typical politician trying to look like the good guy without knowing any of the facts about the issue at hand. Regards, Tim
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by afboundguy
http:///forum/post/2538021
.. In no way was I telling people not to buy fish from SWF.com. ....
Oh ya?

Originally Posted by afboundguy

http:///forum/post/2537815
I'm sure a lot of people on this forum also recieve the saltwaterfish.com emails. It is about those that I have to vent. I'm sure a lot of you have been getting the $5 daily fish specials. I believe this is totally contradictory to responsible SW hobby-keeping. Please don't buy these fish!!!
......

This thread is worded much better and I see no reason to lock it.
the pm feature will kick in after your account has been active for 2 weeks.
 

ophiura

Active Member
Obviously you have not spent much time on this board yet, or at least have not seen some of the tang threads
There are MANY threads, and MANY moderators
on this site, who discourage irresponsible purchases. SWF is one of the few suppliers that has a board where open discussions can take place, and where they are confident enough to allow the debates to continue. I think that is quite admirable and responsible of them.
The hobbyists who come to these boards are far more responsible than perhaps the majority of other people in this hobby, who believe every darn word their LFS tells them. The number of hobbyists that make an effort to get to a message board...really any of them...is probably a relatively limited percentage. However, the mere action of doing so sets them apart as people who are willing to go a bit further, to learn and research sometimes difficult lessons.
And therefor makes them pretty responsible hobbyists, IMO, even if they learn the lesson after the face.
 

ophiura

Active Member
I suppose you can argue basically all of them. All marine fish need certain tank conditions that you have to prepare for (even basic cycling). There are size needs, dietary needs, etc. So a cheap price on any could lead someone to buy one.
Realistically, I think there are people who don't care either way. They don't care if the fish dies, they don't care if the tank is too small. It is some money, and if it lives a bit then cool. Money is not particularly a factor, or maybe they do think "eh it is $10." But I've got news, those people will not likely be swayed by the responsible hobbyist argument. They will not likely be swayed by some sense of guilt. They are just out there. Other folks may in fact learn the hard way. They may learn when something dies. But for these folks again the price may not be as much of a factor...they want dory and nemo and that's it.
With maturity and experience, and then sharing that experience, we can help. But whether or not a store sells cheap fish or not does not, IMO, necessarily make a huge difference.
 
In response to WangoTango...
It may not be the responsibility of SWF.com or anybody other party to what you may buy, good or bad. However, it is all our responsibility to work together, listen and teach. We have all needed advise, but more importantly we all have learned from others. This is were this forum and others are so valuable.
I am not new to aquariums, but very new to salt water. Without the teachings of others, I wouldn't be as successful at this hobby as I am.
Think about how you got to were you are now. Who taught you? Where did you find this knowledge? I am sure you weren't born with it.
Have a great evening all, have fun!!!
 

wangotango

Active Member
That is what I was saying it's the consumer's responsibility, and this forum is a great place to learn about things.
Not telling people to buy from SWF.com because they may buy something they cannot care for is like telling someone not to buy a Ford because they may crash it.
-Justin
 

afboundguy

Member
Originally Posted by WangoTango
http:///forum/post/2539140
That is what I was saying it's the consumer's responsibility, and this forum is a great place to learn about things.
-Justin
I think it is also the seller’s responsibility. When I first started out I had a few LFSs that straight out refused to sell certain fish to me. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't have as good as a tank as I have now. I also wouldn't know nearly as much without the help of these stubborn LFSs. Honestly I respect those stores so much more because they put the hobby before a sale and only goto those LFSs.
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
Originally Posted by afboundguy http:///forum/post/2539786
I think it is also the seller’s responsibility. When I first started out I had a few LFSs that straight out refused to sell certain fish to me. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't have as good as a tank as I have now. I also wouldn't know nearly as much without the help of these stubborn LFSs. Honestly I respect those stores so much more because they put the hobby before a sale and only goto those LFSs.
I fully disagree. The most a store can do is give the consumer the information that they need and allow the customer to make the decision that they would like to make. Everyone has a different opinion, and if LFS' denied customers the ability to buy things, most customers would go elsehwhere and few would return. Even the best LFS need to make money to stay open. If they are giving out great information but getting few sales because they are turning away customers, they will not be open very long.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/232470/list-of-fish-inverts-that-hobbiests-should-avoid
 

nina&noah

Member
Originally Posted by WangoTango
http:///forum/post/2539140
That is what I was saying it's the consumer's responsibility, and this forum is a great place to learn about things.
Not telling people to buy from SWF.com because they may buy something they cannot care for is like telling someone not to buy a Ford because they may crash it.
-Justin
Very well put, I couldn't agree more!
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
"In before the lock" - something that is not going to happen to this thread unless it turns to be uncivil and unpolite.
So far, this discussion has been reasonable and polite.
On a different note, Urban Dictionary also says that IBTL could say "I Believe In The Lord",
.
 

coral keeper

Active Member
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2539904
"In before the lock" - something that is not going to happen to this thread unless it turns to be uncivil and unpolite.
So far, this discussion has been reasonable and polite.
On a different note, Urban Dictionary also says that IBTL could say "I Believe In The Lord",
.
Ok, Thanks! lol
 
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