My 23g Nano reef diary!

[skate020]

i've only got 2 clowns, one of the BW ones died and i gave the other one to my brother, and so overall i have 4 fish now.
and i havent yet, the LR i've atm is covered with pods which i got told by guy at lfs will last me untill i get one.
besides, if for some reason i have to put it on hold, i can just take this to my dads for a couple of months cos he's got a massive 180g reef.
and for lighting, the anemone's seem to be doing fine, i am planning on gettin a massive lighting system around christmas time, so aslong as this can sort me out till then im fine with it. and the lighting atm, (well the twin T5) can go into the refrigrium.
the only problem is, that thing sticking out the anemone is its foot, meaning its upside down...... its been like this a couple of days and has just recently moved from being in a cave which it was settled for about a week, and there was NO light in the cave, so should i turn it over? im not damaging it by tearing it from a rock cos ofcorse its not stuck to anything.
thanks for replies btw

 

[mma-guy]

umm the sixline and the mandarin are going to fight because they both compete for the same food.
how long have you had the tank set up????

 

[skate020]

they seemed ok when i put them in, i've taken the manderin out untill i set up my refugium, and its been up about 3 months now, but it was a used tank before so wasnt much of a cycle, im gettin a refugium in about a week so yehh
besides, if they do fight, i'll put the sixline in my brothers tank.

 

[aquapod 24]

dont 6 lines get too big for 10 galons

 

[skate020]

nah not really, they dont even grow as big as clownfish i dont think,
clowns grow to about 3.5" when sixline's are around 3"
so yeh now i have 3 fish
so heres my stock list
fish/inverts:
2 true percs
1 green manderin
1 emrald crab
1 sebae anemone
1 Green bubble anemone
and for corals:
1 hammer coral
1 tree coral
and then wat i want for my tank is:
fish/inverts:
1 foxface rabbitfish
10 hermit crabs (idc wat ones)
5 N. snails
2-3 feather dusters
1 more emrald crab
2 cleaner shrimp
corals:
Xenia
lotsa mushrooms
some zoos
duncans coral
orange candy cane
thats all i can think of
sound anygood?/ can fit into my tank?

 

[fretfreak13]

It is said that it takes at least six months for a tank to get established enough to support an anenome, which is probably the reason why yours is acting strange.
Also, as stated before, you will not be able to support a mandarin dragonet in your tank without a steady supply of pods. IMO, a mandarin could go through a 23 gallon tank FULL of pods in a day. You'll need to reseed your tank probably weekly if you don't have a fuge, which can cost up to thirty dollars or more. For that small of a tank, I'd reccomend a HOB filter fuge. Aquaclear has a good HOB filter that can easily be turned into a fuge by riping out all of the filter media, putting in porus LR rubble, some cheato, and hanging a small light on it. You'll proboably need to seed that once, and I'd reccomend going for the biggest HOB filter you could afford. If you get one with a biowheel, take that out too.
Also, don't get a foxface. They're not very hardy from what I've read on this site about other peoples, and they get WAY too big for that tank. Just getting one to move into a 180 a few weeks later will just stress it out, making it less likely to eat, and then probably killing it. I would definetly wait to actually get a bigger tank, not just put it in the tiny one in the meantime.

 

[btldreef]

WOW. I have so much to comment on so bare with me. I'm not trying to be mean with some of what I'm about to say, just trying to give you some advice.
First off, do not get a Rabbitfish, your tank is NOT big enough, by any means. They need at least a 55G, but even that is really pushing it, I wouldn't put one in less than a 75G. Also, they're not that reef safe, and in a smaller tank, more than likely, they're going to nip at corals. There are so many other options out there, just choose wisely. Try to look for more peaceful fish, such as Firefish, Cardinals, Chromis, Clown Gobies, Citron Gobies, Blennies, etc.
Secondly, your LFS is giving you bad advice. As far as I'm concerned (and many others as you will find), there is no such thing as "having enough pods in the tank until you start a refugium" for a mandarin, especially not if you have a mandarin AND a sixline wrasse in a nano tank that isn't that old! I did this, trust me, it's not going to end well. Your sixline will kill your mandarin, especially if he's already killed your cleaner shrimp, I could bet my paycheck on it. I've had it happen in a 40G that was being seeded weekly with pods. Sixline Wrasse are aggressive fish, they will fight for territory and food supply, mandarins are not fighters and will never win the war. Both eat A LOT, and you're tank is not going to be able to support both. If the wrasse does not kill the mandarin, starvation will.
As for what you were saying about just putting the mandarin in a larger reef tank (I believe you said your dad has a 180G?), you'll probably never be able to get him back out. They're really hard to get out of a reef system, especially one of that size. Mandarins learn even inch of a rock work, and you'll knock so much stuff over trying to catch him. I had a hell of a time trying to catch mine in a 40G to transfer him to the 155G. I destroyed my rock work in the process.
As for your lighting, you "should" be okay, but you may have issues with SPS corals, so try to stick with LPS and I wouldn't add anymore anemones for the reasons of lighting, but more so, the size of your tank.
By the way, I love your rock layout. You're going to have some happy rock dwelling fish with that setup.
Okay, now onto the cleanliness of your tank. DIATOMS! You need better circulation, more of a CUC and you might be over feeding your fish/anemones. Can you list what you feed and how often and your water parameters?
You need to get some Cerith Snails and Nassarius Snails ASAP, but make sure you acclimate them correctly, they're very sensitive to changes in water parameters, even slight changes can kill them (especially the Ceriths). I also suggest a sand sifting goby, a blenny (Lawnmower would be my suggestion) some small hermit crabs and a cleaner shrimp.
Again, I'm not trying to be a b****, just trying to help you out. You really need to take care of the diatom issue before you add anything else to your tank.

 

[skate020]

i have taken out the sixline and put it in my brothers 10g, its easier to move then the manderin cos it'll eat flakes and meat.
as for feeding the manderin i know the lfs gave lousy advice they just wanna make a sale... but i did buy 100ml of copepods and set up a lil bucket with water in and stuff to breed them slowly. it says they'll breed, just ALOT slower then in a refugium. and atleast i could keep the manderin a couple of weeks just till i get my paycheck to buy these things.
as for the diatom things i dont know what they are, and you and one other guy has spoken about them so yeh i will get them sorted out deffinately!
i suppose i wont get a rabbitfish thens, and also with the snails and crabs i am planning on gettin a massive package soon, but my lfs only sell them separately so all that would be expensive, like $50-$60 for 10 hermits, its rediculous, and considering i live in the UK, postage may be expensive to buy from here.
im sure i can work it out but for now wat do you think is more important? the snails?
i can acclimatise them for about 3 hours or so if needed.
also i feed them sometimes a farely big dose of flakes once a day, or i cut up a cockle into lil bits once a day, when using the cockles i only use ONE per feed.
my corals and anemone's are doing fine lighting wise so far and im not gna buy another anemone lol, plus i may try blag a 90g tank for christmasoff my parents (my mums a multi-millionaire so price wont be much of a bother)
and yesss i found a refugium on e bay for about $50, comes with miracle mud and chaeto, so i could just take out a lil bit of LR and smash it up and put it in
yehh my flow will need to be up'd i got a koralina nano, and my internal filter (which is about 3 times as powerful as the koralina nano).
so yes i have alot to improve on thens i guess lol.
thanks for advice, no offence taken btw, i know your not trying to be mean just trying to give advice

 

[aquapod 24]

If your mom is rich then get a bigger tank!!!!!

 

[btldreef]

Have you put the Koralia Nano in your tank? If those pics were taken with that many diatoms with the power head in your tank, then you may need to change it's location to produce more flow.
Snails are definitely more important that hermits right now. I highly recommend Ceriths and Nassarius above any others right now. The Ceriths will help eat some of the diatoms and the Nassarius will stir up the sand and help eat left over food that your fish do not finish. The Nassarius snails should be placed in your sand, the Ceriths, mix them up between the sand and the rocks.
You can also stir up your sand a little. I'd recommend doing this now before you add snails or starfish and every few days until you do add a CUC.
You should also look into a sand sifting goby or sand sifting starfish. Some people aren't huge fans of either, but I've had a lot of success with both and will not keep a tank without them.
I'm not a huge fan of chemical treatments, but I'm going to recommend this to you, especially since you have so many diatoms in your tank. Try using Coralife Marine Tank Clarifier. I swear by it. It cleaned my tank within a week with no ill side effects to inverts, fish or coral. It will definitely help you out since there is so much in your tank, but you still need a CUC.
Cut your feed in half until the diatoms are under control. Your fish will not starve. I'd feed every other day, or maybe even every third day for a little bit. Why are you using flakes? I've noticed that people seem to have more problems with diatoms when they use flakes. I personally don't care for flake food, and still to fresh live food or frozen. Try switching food, you may notice that this helps you out.
Glad to hear you're getting a refugium. Copepods are fairly easy to breed, you just have to be patient in the beginning. We've bred them in our 14G, at first I thought we had failed and then it seemed like over night they just exploaded!
Good luck.
Oh yeah, if mom has money, definitely get a bigger tank. You'll want one sooner or later. This is not a hobby, it's an addiction!

 

[skate020]

thanks for all the advice
yehh i will do, the flakes came free with the tank so i thought i'd use them lol, but yehh i'll feed them frozen food, and then live once i've got the refugium.
and i will ask for a bigger tank, but the thing is, she wont just give me money i'll have to earn it, unless its a special occassion like christmas etc, so i may ask her to get me a bigger tank say maybe a 55g or so?
i dont want something too big because of space.
atm i bought a 100ml of copepods and made up some water in a bucket and im keeping the copepods in there and just taking say a little glass full from it everyday for the manderin, the sixline is in the 10g now.
both the clownfish have started hosting my anemone now
and all-in-all its starting to get better, and yes, i will indeed get some snails asap!

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by skate020
http:///forum/post/3152580
thanks for all the advice
yehh i will do, the flakes came free with the tank so i thought i'd use them lol, but yehh i'll feed them frozen food, and then live once i've got the refugium.
and i will ask for a bigger tank, but the thing is, she wont just give me money i'll have to earn it, unless its a special occassion like christmas etc, so i may ask her to get me a bigger tank say maybe a 55g or so?
i dont want something too big because of space.
atm i bought a 100ml of copepods and made up some water in a bucket and im keeping the copepods in there and just taking say a little glass full from it everyday for the manderin, the sixline is in the 10g now.
both the clownfish have started hosting my anemone now
and all-in-all its starting to get better, and yes, i will indeed get some snails asap!
That's good. I'd just get rid of the sixline. If you look through the forums today, there's someone talking about their sixline killing another fish and many people are commenting that they've had similar experiences with them. Florida Joe refers to the as the "fish from hell." Just a thought. If you're going to ask for a bigger tank, do you have any ideas about what you want? The Oceanic all in ones are REALLY nice.

 

[skate020]

yehh i think i might get rid of it, not a very nice fish at all tbh.
ermm im not actually too sure, theres a couple at my local fish shop, which are about, i dno, maybe 70g, and come with everything, including lights which are capable of keeping anything.
but its about £1,200
but those all-in-one's your on about, wat are the prices on them?
also the one's at the lfs have a slight curved front glass.

 

[skate020]

my manderin ate a few feeder shrimp today
i went to the lfs and there was this tank with millions of these shrimp about the size of cleaner shrimp, they were totally clear in colour and the guy said they were locally caught and are just really used as live food to encourage fish to start eating,
they were cheap aswell, 10 of them for £1, so i bought 10, and put them in, and now i have 2 left, the clownfish are WAY to small to have eaten them so the manderin is the only other thing in there that could of the two left are both about 2" long and i think are the biggest therefore havent been eaten, i am hoping they'll breed loads and just sort me out for food for a little while.
even if not, untill i get my refugium, £1 for 10 shrimp is nothing, and because there locally caught they are used to coldwater so i could breed them in something as simple as a bucket with no fuss, just now and then throw in some finely cut frozen food for them to pick at
Also, my anemone is RIGHT next to my tree coral, should i move the coral? because the tenticles are touching the coral and im not sure if it can handle the sting or if it'll die..?
any help on that one?

 

[btldreef]

I'm so jealous that your mandarin eats other things besides copepods! I wish mine would (as do many other people).
You should move the coral. If the anemone's tentacles are within reach, it will sting the coral. Do not move the anemone, because more than likely it will just go back to where it wants anyways, or find another coral it would like to sting.

 

[skate020]

ok i'll do that,
i'm still pondering on some more fish to get,
i mean i have now in my tank, 3 fish.
all of which are small.
the 2 clowns are about 1.5" and the maderin is about 2".
i have SOOOO much empty space and i want a fish that'll swim around and catch the eye.
anyone suggest anything?
i was thinking maybe like, a few lil fish to go into a school or 1 or 2 slightly bigger ones.
for instance, 4 or 5 green chromis, there tiny and wont bother any of my fish, and in a school of 4 or 5 look really good!
or maybe like, a dwarf angel? bi-colour or flame or something.
or maybe even a tang, obviously im planning on a new upgrade soon so the tang will be small when i buy, then when it gets bigger i'll transfer it into a bigger tank.
speaking of the upgrades i was at the lfs today and saw this lovely tank. wasnt massive, it was about 50g maybe 60g, was ONLY £479 which included tank, cabinet, filter system and sump.
then could buy a 8 x T5 lighting unit for £229 that fits on it, (its on show with the tank but just sold separately) so about £700 for a 55g, with built in filter system and sump and pipework for sump and cabinet.
that a good deal?
its not massive, its just really deep, and when like normal tanks are a rectangle, its like that just turned on its side, so its higher then it is long etc.
next time im there i'll try shoot some pics of it

 

[skate020]

Sorry people.
i didnt take your advise and i bought an angelfish!!
BUT i PROMISE i will upgrade soon to a tank big enough to support one,
also, i couldnt let the deal go! £34 for a koran angelfish, and its only about 1" atm so its got plenty of rockwork to swim through and plenty of water around it for the time being
its SOOO beautiful, im think when i get the upgrade, FOWLR with a lil coral,
so i can get nicer fish, e.g. my angelfish, and then like a niger trigger, i'll keep the anemone's and i wont get the trigger untill my clowns are quite largerr
and considering the niger triggers mouth it probably wont attack the clowns anywayss, and the manderin, well i'd like to see the trigger try and catch it lol.
i'll put up a pic once i've acclimatized the fish!

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by skate020
http:///forum/post/3155183
Sorry people.
i didnt take your advise and i bought an angelfish!!
BUT i PROMISE i will upgrade soon to a tank big enough to support one,
also, i couldnt let the deal go! £34 for a koran angelfish, and its only about 1" atm so its got plenty of rockwork to swim through and plenty of water around it for the time being
its SOOO beautiful, im think when i get the upgrade, FOWLR with a lil coral,
so i can get nicer fish, e.g. my angelfish, and then like a niger trigger, i'll keep the anemone's and i wont get the trigger untill my clowns are quite largerr
and considering the niger triggers mouth it probably wont attack the clowns anywayss, and the manderin, well i'd like to see the trigger try and catch it lol.
i'll put up a pic once i've acclimatized the fish!
Korans grow VERY fast and eat a lot! Make sure you have an algae/seaweed clip in there every day. I had one and he ate all the time....

 

[skate020]

ok i will do, i got tons of algae on my rockwork aswell cos 1 emrald crab is useless in my tank, its usually good in a 23g, but cos mines long for a 23g i can get alortt more rockwork in there.
but yessssss i know on here it says minimum tank size 100+gallons, but when i search it for information 90% of the websites i went on said 55+ gallon, so if i get the 70gallon and just have my anemone's. and the two corals i've got, and then basically have lots of swimthroughs and LOADS of swimming space to counteract the slightly smaller tank size.
i've got a massive thing of algae sheets too, and considering i have a manderin and two clowns i dont use them. ima try catch a pic of him now, he's smaller then my clowns and with my rockwork which he LOVES it'll be abit of a task to grab a shot lol.
thanks for not critisizing my decision of buying the angelfish.

 

[skate020]

righttt
i've lost the cable to connect my phone to the comp wiich is wat i use for photo's so i dont have any photo's atm
but im having second thoughts on this angel, i REALLY dont think its a koran.
its dark blue with the white and light blue stripes down it. BUT the tail is yellow.... and the top of the body is slightly yellow..... is it a majestic juvi?
or a annularis ? or something like that?
i'll get photo's as soon as pos!!