my experiment with sugar dosing.

[sly]

Originally Posted by mkzimms
http:///forum/post/2729770
ive noticed everyone at SWF is very against adding anything to their tanks, everyone likes to keep it all organic and whatnot. if you peak around at the other forums you will see these types of experiments and other techniques that people are having tremendous success with. sometimes we have to step outside our comfort zone to make advancements in the hobby.
I'm not against dosing anything in the tank... I'm just against Purple UP. I've used it and it's junk. Why? Because it does not contain the proper proportion of calcium and magnesium. Most people who use it will have problems maintaining their alkalinity which will eventually cause violent pH swings which can be lethal to tank inhabitants.
I dose my tank with calcium, magnesium, strontium, iodide and iron. I also test for all of them so that I can be sure to keep everything in balance. So yes, I do use additives. Most people are against additives for one simple reason. Most people don't properly test for what they are using... However I did test when I added Purple UP and I found that if I used it properly as a calcium supplement, and didn't overdose it, I would still have problems with my alkalinity and pH. That stuff is junk.
If you need calcium, then dose calcium. If you need strontium then dose strontium... But these "all in one" supplements are a bad idea. One tank will consume more of one ingredient than another and buying a supplement that has a mix of ingredients ensures that something will always be off.
We are not against dosing tanks... but they are usually a waste of money and that is what we are against... Most of the time by doing simple water changes you will replace what was lost and in the proper ratios. That is something that no "all in one supplement" can do. So which would you rather do? Add a mix of chemicals to your tank and then eventually have to do major water changes to get everything back in order? Or just do the water changes themselves and not put your tank through all that?

 

[mkzimms]

i wasn't necessarily talking about the standard chemicals... i was speaking more about the more advanced setups.

 

[privatejoker]

I would just do weekly water changes. It seems more of a pia to do something every day then it would once a week or every other week. I'm still interested to see what happens.

 

[rotarygeek]

well i know i should be dosing calcium and not purple up, but this was readily available and a pure calcium additive wasnt. besides that, it was only an experiment. i understand its only a basic supplement designed for a wide range of things when i only need to be dosing one thing. but back to the main subject, im happy to actually be seeing some real results. i was kinda worried i wasnt going to see anything. kinda like it was a big hoax.

 

[rick2203]

i have done the sugar dosing before my nitrages where not too high about 20 but it brought them down to 0 in about a week, i added a few pinches of sugar everyday until it went down, its a bandaid solution you have to find out the source of your nitrates and fix that because you can dose sugar forever.

 

[srfisher17]

Here is a very long thread on sugar dosing. It works very well for me. BTW; I'll get slammed for this, but nitrates in the 80-100 range (maybe even much higher) won't hurt fish. Inverts, yes and they can help cause diatom problems. But; I've never seen any documentation that nitrates in that range bother fish at all.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&pagenumber=27

 

[privatejoker]

srfisher I agree about the nitrates and fish, but in a reef tank thats all together differnet.

 

[rotarygeek]

well this is a fowlr so it isnt too important. i would be more worried if i had corals, but i dont. so this is more to actually prove it works to myself. so far it is, but now im doubting weather i should up my dose in the morning since im starting to see results now. any input on that?

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by privatejoker
http:///forum/post/2730495
srfisher I agree about the nitrates and fish, but in a reef tank thats all together differnet.
Right. Whenever I mention nitrates I try to remember to mention reefs. Nitrates can be a problem for any invert, including coral. I think the idea that a moderate level of nitrates is a big worry in fish only tanks is one of the biggest misconceptions on this forum.

 

[spiderwoman]

Some reefers in our club have tried sugar dosing and pretty soon switched to vodka dosing. I've been recommended to start trying that. All of the ones who are using vodka have SPS tanks and so far have great results with growth and color.

 

[rotarygeek]

Ok well day 3 i still have about 80 ppm nitrate. i checked all my perameters and here they are.
Amm - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 80
Ph - 8.0
temp - 80
sal - 1.024
So i upped my dose to 1/4 tsb per day. Ill keep it here for another 3 days and if i don't see some kind of positive result, ill add another 1/4 tsb in 3. If after a month or two of this (plenty of time to get some kind of real response) it still isn't working, i am planning on switching to vodka dosing.

 

[rotarygeek]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2730020
Here is a very long thread on sugar dosing. It works very well for me. BTW; I'll get slammed for this, but nitrates in the 80-100 range (maybe even much higher) won't hurt fish. Inverts, yes and they can help cause diatom problems. But; I've never seen any documentation that nitrates in that range bother fish at all.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&pagenumber=27
Yeah thanks for the link. I have been reading the vodka dosing thread and picking out the bits for sugar dosing, but i didn't see that one.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by dogfaceman
http:///forum/post/2727987
if you add sugar you add all kinds of chemicals to your tank, even if its whole sugar cane, it still has tons of pesticides and chemicals it takes from the soil(assuming you dont grow it yourself)
If my kids & I can eat sugar; I'm sure my fish can handle it. BTW, did you ever see the ingredient listing on your salt mix? I asked Instant Ocean and the e-mailed me a copy. There sure a lot on non-natural sounding things in there, including deadly copper. I know its a controversial subject; but, IMO, the minute we take a fish from the reef and put him in a glass box, everything is artificial and/or potentially poisonous. I have no problem at all using good chemical products from good companies. I just use common sense, avoid outlandish claims (with one notable exception) and try not to expect a product to substitute for basic maintenance. I'm also a believer in using company tech support; if it isn't available or not helpful, I don't buy their stuff.
BTW, SeaChem De-Nitrate or Matrix (the same stuff, different size) are great (and natural) products to help with with nitrate. Be sure to follow directions exactly, flow rate is critical. I would suggest a visit to their web site before you decide to use either.

 

[rotarygeek]

Well what is this, day 5? 4? i don't remember. (lol forgetting already) I tested my water really hoping i would see some kind of big decrease in nitrates, but i didn't. Still hovering around 80 ppm. But the color itself does seem to be getting lighter, but staying in that range. Ph dropped down to 7.8, but again it was an early morning test, so it could rise up to an excepteable range soon. Algea doesn't seem to be on the retreat yet, and in fact, the white spot on the Red Slime Algea seems to be getting better. But since all my fish/inverts are looking good, ill keep dosing. I don't 1/4 tsb sugar today. Ill post more tomorrow.

 

[fau8]

I just do not get the point of all of this, in the begining you mentioned not having the time to properly maintain your tank. Now you are investing major effort in something that is experimental and unproven. Why not put the effort into changing your water and eliminating the cause of what got you into this situation?

 

[fau8]

One other point why are you adding calcium? for a fish only tank. If you did your weekly or bi weekly water changes your calcium levels should stay in an acceptable range.
Also I would like to know your phosphate levels, there is no way with nitrates at still at 80ppm you will be able to notice any improvement in algee growth.
In reference to your tank, what knid of fish, how many, and how often and what are you feeding?

 

[rotarygeek]

im doing this to see if it works, becuase i dont have alot of time for water changes (that doesnt mean i wont do them, just that i dont get alot of free time where i can actually do it) and becuase this takes all of 6 minutes a day, 5 for the nitrate test and 1 to dose the sugar. plus i want to prove that it works or doesnt work. i was dosing calcium to speed up my coraline algea growth, but i have already stopped that. i dont know what my phosphate levels are, but i will be buying a test kit on the 1st to see. i feed half a cube of frozen brine shrimp every other day, but i suspect other people feed my tank when im not around becuase i dont have a heavy bioload. i have 2 oc. clowns, 1 sixline wrasse, 1 lawnmower blenny, and i think i still have a firefish goby, but i havent seen him in a while. i have about 1( hermit crabs, 3 turbo snails, and an emeral crab. i had a coral banded shrimp, but he died. if i forgot anything, let me know and ill try to answer.

 

[fau8]

From your listing and what you are feeding it should not be that hard to maintain very low if not 0 nitrates. I used to run a 45 gallon cube that was way over stocked. I would change 10 to 15 gallons a week and could never get lower than 15 ppm. For me the secrect was the addition of the refuguim. I am now running a 75 and have been at the zero level consistantly. I utilize cheato and 24 our lighting on thr fuge. I just trim the cheato back once a month.
I guess the point of this is somehow you are or someone else is adding to much nutrients into the water. I still would think that once you do a water change and get the nitrates <20 things should stableize. Unfortunatly, I think you will have to change 15 to 20 gallons over a 3 or 4 day period to get your water to an acceptable level.
I have been there with that 45 of mine and the frustration level lead me to breaking down that system and getting out the hobby for a while. But in the long run I learned from it and my maintianance is now easier on my 75 than it ever was on the 45.

 

[rotarygeek]

i dont know if i have already posted this, but its a 55 gallon with a 10 gallon sump with chaeto and live rock. thats my only filtration besides the cheepo skimmer. also while im thinking about it, i meant 10 hermit crabs, not 1(. i had my cheato light on the same timer as my tank lights, but now i switched it to being on 24 - 7 so that should help it out. i havent seen much growth out of it in the 2 months i have had it, so maybe the lighting was way off. we will see i guess. in the end, the nitrates will be zero if i have to do huge water changes everyday. i will beat this problem and have a healthy tank. things should be calming down soon to the point where i will have the time to do water changes like i should, so it will be ok.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by RotaryGeek
http:///forum/post/2732236
i dont know if i have already posted this, but its a 55 gallon with a 10 gallon sump with chaeto and live rock. thats my only filtration besides the cheepo skimmer. also while im thinking about it, i meant 10 hermit crabs, not 1(. i had my cheato light on the same timer as my tank lights, but now i switched it to being on 24 - 7 so that should help it out. i havent seen much growth out of it in the 2 months i have had it, so maybe the lighting was way off. we will see i guess. in the end, the nitrates will be zero if i have to do huge water changes everyday. i will beat this problem and have a healthy tank. things should be calming down soon to the point where i will have the time to do water changes like i should, so it will be ok.
beautiful reef, fau8!
Find an easy way to do water changes; the easier it is, the more it gets done. A great time & work saver is no get a rubbermaid trash can on wheels. Mix & heat the water in it and use the same PH to pump new water into your tank. I had a set up like this in the laundry room, with water access and i could change 15 gal in less than 20 mins. (I used a vac python and just siphoned ( the python pump too slow) the old water outside or into the bathtub. No buckets, lifting, hand-mixing or spills.