My Firefish is DYING!!! Please help.

[woody189]

Hi. Please help me save my fish.
I posted a thread while my fish was missing: (https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/356145/is-my-royal-gramma-a-killer-you-be-the-judge#post_3019862)
but she has since turned up.
Here's my situation. I have a 46 gal tank, w/ 45 lbs LR. I've had a Purple Firefish and Royal Gramma in the same tank for over a year. The RG is sometimes aggressive. He will chase the FF with his mouth open. The FF will run away, but never seems too scared. I've never seen him actually bite anyone in the tank, nor harm them. Just chase and be a bully.
3 days ago, my FF disappeared, and the RG starting hanging out in the FF's spot.
Today I woke up and found my FF (for the 1st time in 3days) on the sand bed. She was spinning around, VERY weak. I was able to nudge her into a plastic container (which would usually be impossible with a DARTfish).
She got much skinnier in the last 3 days. She appears to be on the verge of death. I'm not sure if there are signs of her being picked on. SHe's so skinny it's hard to tell. There may be some rips on her belly, but it's hard to tell. Firefish have odd shaped bodies, and she's barely moving for me to examine her.
I currently have her in a container w/ holes in my tank. I put her in there so now one can pick on her, and I have a piece of LR for her to hide in, but She's not using in. I turned the lights off.
I was trying to figure out if my RG killed my presumed dead FF and took her spot, or if the FF died and the RG took the spot.
ALso, do you think it was the RG? I'm thinking yes because the RG claimed the FF's spot when she was still alive. Maybe he's the one that nearly killed her.
What should I do?? Leave her in there, or move her to the sump (but I don't want to stress her out any further).
Thank you so much.

 

[deejeff442]

is there anyway you can place a divider in the tank?
those gammas will terrorize the thing to death.
he wont eat if he feels like it is in danger.
do you have a 10 gallon tank around maybe use it as a qt for him .
if not i would get one they are just $10 at walmart.
take 10 gallons of water out of the dt so it wont cycle and add a powerhead.
once he feels comfortable and is not too far gone he should heal up.
also do you run a sump if so put him in there with a piece of lr.
also if you plan on adding more fish you might want to lose the gamma.
good luck
sorry just saw you have a sump ,put him in there.

 

[spanko]

Yes into the sump, just make sure you cover it so he cannot jump out. Then you need to decide on keeping it or the gramma.

 

[geridoc]

I agree with deejeff, except that using tank water in the QT will not prevent a cycle. The bacteria are not in the water column, they are on solid substrates like lr, sand, the glass walls of the tank, etc. You could transfer a few pieces of lr or some sand from the dt to the qt with the fish. Also, if all else fails and the tank does begin to cycle, use Amquel Plus exactly as the bottle directs and the cycle won't bother the fish. Good luck!

 

[woody189]

Thanks Jeff.
So you are pretty certain it was the Gramma? I was leaning towards yea also.
I love my RG, he's such a nice fish, I'd hate to get rid of him. But, I do intend on adding more fish. I've actually been thinking about getting rid of him, but it's a hard thing to do.
Does the fact that the RG was in the FF's territory while she was still alive mean anything?? To me it's a sign that the RG was the one who hurt the FF, but maybe there's no correlation. What do yo u think?

 

[woody189]

You guys are fast.
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3019875
Yes into the sump, just make sure you cover it so he cannot jump out. Then you need to decide on keeping it or the gramma.
I will do that. Question to you though SPANKO. I saw you mentioned a Blue Assesor to someone in another thread. I figured I couldn't get 1 because of the RG, but maybe if I get rid of it, I'll get an assessor. Do you think I'd have better luck w/ one, or are their attitudes similar to a RG?
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3019876
I agree with deejeff, except that using tank water in the QT will not prevent a cycle. The bacteria are not in the water column, they are on solid substrates like lr, sand, the glass walls of the tank, etc. You could transfer a few pieces of lr or some sand from the dt to the qt with the fish. Also, if all else fails and the tank does begin to cycle, use Amquel Plus exactly as the bottle directs and the cycle won't bother the fish. Good luck!
Thanks for the input. I have a sump though, so not a problem.
Poor Juno... I hope she's okay...SIGH

 

[spanko]

From reef corner;
"Royal Grammas tend to stake out a cave in the rockwork which they use as home base. They come out into the open to feed, but tend to dart back into the rockwork when startled. Royal grammas tend to not bother or be bothered by other fish, but will vigorously guard their favorite hiding places. They will open their mouths very wide in a threatening gesture to ward off intruders. "
Was your gramma in the tank first?
IME with the Assessor Macneilli it was the most peaceful fish in my tank.

 

[woody189]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3019881
From reef corner;
"Royal Grammas tend to stake out a cave in the rockwork which they use as home base. They come out into the open to feed, but tend to dart back into the rockwork when startled. Royal grammas tend to not bother or be bothered by other fish, but will vigorously guard their favorite hiding places. They will open their mouths very wide in a threatening gesture to ward off intruders. "
Was your gramma in the tank first?
IME with the Assessor Macneilli it was the most peaceful fish in my tank.
I've read a lot threads though about RG's being aggressive. Espiecially as they get bigger.
This is my 1st tank that I set up about last February. I put my 2 clowns in 1st. About 3 weeks later the RG, then maybe another three weeks later the purple FF along w/ a red FF. The red didn't make it though.
I should have added the FF's 1st, but I was afraid adding 2 new fish to my new tank would be too much.
my RG definitly did that open mouth thing. But he doesn't hide very much. Only if my hand/net/something's in the tank.
The tank has been reaquascaped plenty of times since I added him, so It's not like it was his "base". Do you think he wanted to claim it has his base?
I really appreciate the help BTW.

 

[deejeff442]

sorry i didnt mean putting the dt wont cycle it would just be more comfortable for the ff.only 1 ff wont have much of a cycle in a 10 gallon with small water changes and established water from the dt.
although there is some bacteria in the water column just not like it stays on the lr.
after you get the ff healthy maybe put the gamma in the sump and add a couple more fish a little bigger than hin to the dt and add the gamma back in a few weeks.once the other fish get thier homes the gamma will have to find a new one.

 

[spanko]

Yeah, not all fish read the books to know how they should act. You have one with maybe a little more aggressive personality. Knowing that you will be the decision maker here on keeping it or not. Have read many treads about this happening and people ending up taking theirs back to the store for credit.

 

[woody189]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3019891
Yeah, not all fish read the books to know how they should act. You have one with maybe a little more aggressive personality. Knowing that you will be the decision maker here on keeping it or not. Have read many treads about this happening and people ending up taking theirs back to the store for credit.
Yea, but if so many ppl have this problem, then maybe it's not that the fish aren't reading the books, maybe it's that the books need to be tweaked. I have very little experience, so I can't talk, but maybe that's the case.
2 more questions for you all...
1) So It's pretty safe to assume the Royal Gramma was the culprit? right?
I would hate to get rid of 1 of the nicest looking fish in my tank if it wasn't his fault.
2) If I were to take the RG out for a while (maybe 1-2 weeks), reaquascape, then put him back, do you think that would work??
He was there before all but 1 fish in my tank, so it's not surprising he's a bully.
If I were to make him the last addition (by doing what I said), do you think that would work, or would his aggressive nature come out after a while?

 

[woody189]

Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/3019890
after you get the ff healthy maybe put the gamma in the sump and add a couple more fish a little bigger than hin to the dt and add the gamma back in a few weeks.once the other fish get thier homes the gamma will have to find a new one.
That's what i'm starting to think about doing.
And I like the way you say "after you get the FF healthy". I like the optimism.

 

[deejeff442]

its pretty amazing what a fish will live through.
i had an ell a long time ago i cant remember what happened exactly but he was practicly dead.i put him in the tank with two powerheads pointed right at his head for an hour he wasnt moving yet after a couple hours he recovered slowly only to jump the tank a couple years later.
but as long as the ff is moving around a little he can be saved.
what are you trying to feed him?
i would add some garlic and zoe to help him eat and heal up.

 

[oceansidefish]

My RG is a woos compared to my twin-spot hog....

 

[woody189]

My FF died. I'm gonna throw my RG into the sump for a while. Then add him back to the dt. IF he doesn't behave, i'm gonna trade him..
Thanks for the help.

 

[deejeff442]

sorry to hear that.
when you buy more fish look to see what is aggresive and put the most agressive in last.
ff are very doctile .
alot of times when they are bullied they will jump the tank.