My first fish !! (are sick)

emilaya101

emilaya101

Member
Alright, so I bought my first 3 fish on monday. 2 ocellaris clowns, and an algae blenny. I had an hour drive from the lfs, and they were packed nice and good in a styrofoam box. I got them home, and drip acclimated them for an hour, and finally got them into the dt, and they looked frisky as can be. until about two hours later when I saw the white spots. Went to walmart right away (only thing close to me) and bought an empty 10g and a powerhead and heater for it. Got the 2 clowns and blenny into the 10g (filled with water from the dt) and treated them with nox-ich for three days straight, and waited a day, and that was yesterday, so now one clown is looking frisky, and the other lays on the bottom on its side and moves once in a while, and the blenny has no apparent change in behaviour. What do I do now ?
I know that is the fish dies I need to get it out right away, as to not spike the ammonia in the evver so tiny 10g. my dt is a 55g tank with a 29g sump, nothing in the sump but chaeto, and in the dt are 2 emerald crabs, a feather duster, and what I think is a bristle starfish ( hitchiker).
params are same now as before, and I have checked them daily,
ammonia 0
nitrites 0
nitrates 40
ph 8.3
sg0.021
Please Help !! Any comments or info appreciated !! I will take pics if needed !!
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
wait and see?
i don't know what to tell you, and i'll probably get scolded for this remark, but i would have put them in without a QT. if they got ich, i would have just waited it out. and if they died, i'd wait a month before adding more.
stress is what brings these things on, or atleast lets them get a foothold. i would have not caused any more stress swapping them from tank to tank.
i'm sorry for your trouble.
 
emilaya101

emilaya101

Member
Duh. that is the logical thing to do to me too, but I panicked and tried to "help" them.... Well, I guess all I can do Is wait it out
 
aquaguy24

aquaguy24

Active Member
yes i would also have waited it out..the first time i added fish it was a clown to my 24g.and it swam crazy for a couple of days and also got that bubble eyeball thing..i waited it out. ...the bubble eyeball thing went away in a week..i still have the clown after a year and doing very well..
but if u add a fish that has ich to a tank wit already fish in it then i would remove it and put it in a QT...
 
kellenr

kellenr

Member
Kick-Ich is a cool treatment for the DT, it'll kill 'free-floating' ich bacteria and contains no copper or phosphates and is totally invert & reef safe.
See, most the LFS have their 'fish side' of the store running on a system that has copper in it. (Thats why you not too often see many fish swimmin' on the side with corals and inverts, they're on a different system). The copper prevents bacteria and fungus from building up and the fish from getting sick. Only thing is it also removes the protective slime coat from the fish. So now you buy them (LFS job is over) bring them home to your 'copper-free' tank, the fish have no slime protection, and now notice they have ich a few days later. A healthy fish will repel ich even when exposed, stress is a huge indicating factor or whether or not a fish will get it if exposed. No stress, happy fish eating well, good water params = fish with no ich. Start stressing the community out (i.e. trying to catch that '1' fish to QT) all of a sudden you notice more fish with ich.
I am not a fan of QT's (okay hit me now) and don't really use one. Kick-Ich is good to kill the free-floating ich like I said, Invert & Reef Safe. It'll prevent the other fish from getting it and once the ich 'pops or falls off' the sick fish the ich will be killed. Therefore reinfection won't occur and after several weeks you'll see the ich should be under control. Well good luck, no one likes to deal with ich.
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
i don't know about most LFS's but the ones around here do not constantly expose their valuable livestock to poison. if anything, they keep a lower salinity.
i would want to know what is in that snake oil before i put it in my tank, "reef safe" or not.
can you get a list of ingredients, or a material safety data sheet on kick-ich?
 
bioneck47

bioneck47

Member
Originally Posted by KellenR
http:///forum/post/2636470
Kick-Ich is a cool treatment for the DT, it'll kill 'free-floating' ich bacteria and contains no copper or phosphates and is totally invert & reef safe.
See, most the LFS have their 'fish side' of the store running on a system that has copper in it. (Thats why you not too often see many fish swimmin' on the side with corals and inverts, they're on a different system). The copper prevents bacteria and fungus from building up and the fish from getting sick. Only thing is it also removes the protective slime coat from the fish. So now you buy them (LFS job is over) bring them home to your 'copper-free' tank, the fish have no slime protection, and now notice they have ich a few days later. A healthy fish will repel ich even when exposed, stress is a huge indicating factor or whether or not a fish will get it if exposed. No stress, happy fish eating well, good water params = fish with no ich. Start stressing the community out (i.e. trying to catch that '1' fish to QT) all of a sudden you notice more fish with ich.
I am not a fan of QT's (okay hit me now) and don't really use one. Kick-Ich is good to kill the free-floating ich like I said, Invert & Reef Safe. It'll prevent the other fish from getting it and once the ich 'pops or falls off' the sick fish the ich will be killed. Therefore reinfection won't occur and after several weeks you'll see the ich should be under control. Well good luck, no one likes to deal with ich.
I also have never heard of a LFS treating all of their fish with copper, especially if they really don't need it. Copper is toxic and treating perfectly healthy fish with it is insane, and a QT is used to quarantine fish before entering your DT and I think that it is an absolute must in this hobby.Especially after I lost 13 out of 15 of my fish from Marine velvet.Also all fish are volnurable to being infected with ich, healthy or not. Just because a fish is happy and stress free doesn't =no ich, they are less likely to become infected but it is not a guarantee.I've also tried kick-ich twice in the past and it did absolutely nothing for my fish, and I also have not heard to many people have success with it so I don't recommend it. It's just a waste of time and money IMO. Hyposalinity is probably the best and most effective way to treat ich and it has no known ill effect to fish as copper does. Emiliya keep your ten gallon handy in the future and use it as a QT to protect your current fish, please learn from mistakes like mine and others on this forum.
 
emilaya101

emilaya101

Member
Yes, I'm gonna keep the 10g up for future livestock purchases. I'll have to read about the kick-ich thing too. one of them was dying last night, so I dripped them into the dt (i know I know, more stress) BUT, now the dying fish seems to be doing much better, he's swimmin all around now, as is the other one, here's hopin
 
shiby1510

shiby1510

Member
if any fish are still in the QT make sure you do water changes because the tank will begin to cycle because it is new and the ammonia will rise and you know the rest.
 
emilaya101

emilaya101

Member
no fish in the qt anymore, and I just took water out of the dt and did a w/c in my dt, so I used cycled water to fill up the qt, so no cycle i guess
 
mike15

mike15

Member
Sorry to hear about the death of your blenny =(. The only think I would recommend at this point would be to perform more frequent water changes to try and lower your nitrates. 40ppm isn't necessarily super high but its high enough that it may cause stress on the fish.
The key to a speedy recovery is the cleanest water possible (lowered nitrates). Also, if the spots appeared that soon after adding the fish, it was not necessarily ich. There are numerous illnesses that take the form of white spots and can occur from the stress of moving. The best thing to do is always quarentine new arrivals and watch them since, if it is not ich, the medications or treatements of ich will not be effective.
To answer another topic in this thread, many LFS do sometimes use extremely low doses of copper formulas in fish-only tanks to reduce the chances of infections while in their holding tanks. While the store where you bought these fish may not be to blame for the fish disease, you may want to be careful on future purchases there if their other livestock may also be infected.
I would ALWAYS recommend using a QT tank since I have personally lost fish due to my impatience and the addition of sick fish into my DT. Watch the remaining fish closely and then treat accordingly with symptoms that may occur or reoccur. If it is not ich, hyposalinity and other ich treatments will not work. Formalin dips or Malachite Green are two additional medicines that can kill several other diseases but again, I would just wait a while and allow the fish to settle in before using any medications (if you do use meds make sure you read up on the treatment style, dosage, and possible effects before use). Hope this helps,
Mike15.
 
bioneck47

bioneck47

Member
Originally Posted by Mike15
http:///forum/post/2640679
To answer another topic in this thread, many LFS do sometimes use extremely low doses of copper forumalas in fish-only tanks to reduce the chances of infections while in their holding tanks.
that still doesn't make much sense to me because an extremely low dose of copper isn't going to do much for ich, marine velvet, etc. because the dose has to be high enough to kill off the parasite. I'm not saying that it's not true but just unneccesary IMO.
 
mike15

mike15

Member
Originally Posted by bioneck47
http:///forum/post/2640919
that still doesn't make much sense to me because an extremely low dose of copper isn't going to do much for ich, marine velvet, etc. because the dose has to be high enough to kill off the parasite. I'm not saying that it's not true but just unneccesary IMO.
I too didn't see why they would use copper in their tanks in such low doses. My LFS told me they used small doses of it to kill weaker parasites and possible fungal infections. I agree that such a low dosage would probably not affect ich or marine velvet but I think the main point is to "hide" external signs of some infections since many exterior parasites would probably die off while parasite inside the fish may remain unharmed. I guess it is sometimes a dirty tactic since it hides the disease without fixing it but thats just what I was told
.
Also, I guess they could use products like CopperSafe where it is a monthly treatment (1 teaspoon to 4 gallons) that is strong enough to fight ich and marine velvet. Since the fish in these tanks are often sold quickly, they probably are not in any danger from such short exposure to the medicine when it is in the correct dosage.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Emilaya101
http:///forum/post/2640505
no fish in the qt anymore, and I just took water out of the dt and did a w/c in my dt, so I used cycled water to fill up the qt, so no cycle i guess

Biological bacteria does not live in the water column. It colonizes on the surfaces of the tank. The qt will still have to be cycled. What are you doing about the clown fish?
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
You sure about that Sep? I've heard from several other reliable sources that Bacteria does form in the water column, but the majority of it exists on rock and other surfaces.
 
emilaya101

emilaya101

Member
I don't know what to do about the clowns
they're in the dt, and they have no spots now, and semm to be doing alright,. I think the one clown was dying because the other was slamming it against the glass in the 10, b/c now they're in the big tank, and that one is just picked on a little, so they stay away from each other mostly now. guess I better test my water. Prolly do a w/c too, be back in a bit ya'll.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2641306
You sure about that Sep? I've heard from several other reliable sources that Bacteria does form in the water column, but the majority of it exists on rock and other surfaces.
I am sure. I am not saying that not one single bit of bacteria is present in water from an established tank. I am saying that the water will not cycle a new tank. The bacteria colonizes on surfaces, not in the water column. If you have information that says otherwise then feel free to share. I have not heard of that.
Originally Posted by Emilaya101
http:///forum/post/2641335
I don't know what to do about the clowns
they're in the dt, and they have no spots now, and semm to be doing alright,. I think the one clown was dying because the other was slamming it against the glass in the 10, b/c now they're in the big tank, and that one is just picked on a little, so they stay away from each other mostly now. guess I better test my water. Prolly do a w/c too, be back in a bit ya'll.

Post your readings. Are you even sure that it was ich? You will know soon enough in a 55. It may not have been though.
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
Its something I gleaned off of Reef Central, but maybe they were incorrect in saying its where it forms and just some exists in the water. I wasn't trying to imply that the water would cycle a new tank though.
 
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