my first loss......

txmedic1

txmedic1

Member
ok, i'm very green to all this, but read and research everyday. this website has helped tremendously. but i lost my first fish yesterday (bannerfish). to get you up to speed, i have a 90 gal overflow to a 20 gal fuge. i started with 60 lbs live sand, 95 lbs live rock and let it cure and cycled the tank for almost 5 weeks. my lights are on timers, and the macro algae in the fuge is blooming.
so i took a water sample to the LFS last week, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, and ph of 8.4, got the "all go" for livestock from the store. with 4 kids, we started with the whole "finding nemo" crew. a bannerfish, percula clown, blue hippo tang, yellow tang, royal gamma and a skunk shrimp. a few days later, we added a flame angel, another clown, and a coral beauty. things seem to be pretty calm for the most part, the only this i've noticed was was the coral beauty and flame chasing each other through the rock work.
yesterday while i was at work, my fiance' called to tell me the bannerfish looked injured, trouble swimming upright, and looked like a "chunk" was missing from his side. an hour later, he was dead. she froze him for me to see later. it looks more like something "rubbed" him raw on his side. about 2-3 cm long and down to his meat. though he is frozen, it looks red and irritated, as if it rubbed against the rock. so my question is, was it mr. green, with the revolver, in the ballroom???? i really lost, today my water is ph 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20ppm. any ideas or suggestions???
:help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:
 
darthgoby

darthgoby

Member
I don't know why your bannerfish in particular died except that it isn't a good idea to add all those fish at once. Even though your tank is cycled, you need to add the fish gradually so your various filters (including your bacteria and other biological filters in your live rock) can grow in pace with the fish. I'm kind of surprised your LFS let you walk out with that many fish at once.
I added a ton of fish after my tank cycled right away and lost most of them. I learned that lesson and since then have waited at least 2-3 weeks between adding each fish. I remember how excited I was when the cycle was done so I've been there before.
You might also have some compatibility issues with the fish you added. As a general rule it can be problematic to have more than one tang and more than one angel at a time. That could be why you are having problems with your coral beauty and your flame angel. There can also be aggression betwen fish of similar size and shapes. I added a coral beauty two weeks ago and he and my tang are still having problems.
On top of all that, the fish are going to have a lot of stress just from being yanked out of the water, stuck in a container, shipped to a store, brought to your house, and then put in your tank. Having that many new fish at once will probably compound the stress.
I would continue to monitor your tank and hold off on getting any more fish. I hate to say it but it is possible that you'll have some more losses before it is all over.
 
nicetry

nicetry

Active Member
I'm in agreement with DG. Too many fish, too quickly. At best, your system is much too unstable to keep all of those fish, in particular sensitive species like tangs or butterflies. A cycled tank is not necessarily a stable system. IMO you are overstocked. I would suggest removing one of the dwarf angels and the hepatus tang. The angels will likely not get along, and the tang will outgrow your system. It is also a fish very prone to parasites. You are not quarantining your fish so you might expect more problems. As "cute" as the Nemo themed tanks are, avoid following this route, particularly in your sized tank. Explain to your kids that you want to keep the fish happy and healthy and that you just can't have all those fish in your tank. The clowns, one dwarf angel, yellow tang, royal gramma, and shrimp is enough for your system. Angels and butterflies really should not be added until a tank is well established (6 mos or better). I agree that your lfs was pretty irresponsible in allowing you to stock a new tank with so many fish. If you return some fish and he get's defensive, seriously look for another place to shop. He wants your money.
 
murph

murph

Active Member
Definitely some compatibility issues here.
From my experience tangs, especially yellow tangs, hate any and all butterflies which I assume the "banner fish" is. The injury to the butterfly's is likely from the yellow tang.
Combining angels is also problematic. If you wish to have two angels I have found that the easiest combination will be a small pygmy and larger dwarf such as flame or coral beauty but must be added at the same time. Even this may not work but the smaller pygmy is generally to fast for larger dwarfs to get a hold of and aggresion usually subsides.
I would return the flame and CB and attempt the above combo or just one angel for the tank.
good luck
 
txmedic1

txmedic1

Member
thank you very much, i will definetly pass all this info to my fiance'. we will have to rethink out strategy and long term goals. as for the nitrate at 20, should i keep an eye on it, or do a 20% change now?
got a new question, red hair algae. i have some starting in my refuge, and my macro is is "blooming". it looks like bubble algae? are these safe in my refuge? when my tank was cycling and tank curing, had some rapid growth in on the glass of the refuge. i dropped a turbo snail in there for a few days, and he cleaned the walls, too good perhaps. should i put a snail in the refuge or leave it alone to do its own thing?
 
jacrmill

jacrmill

Member
Note to self, do not ever stop at the Fish R Us in woodlands if I am ever in the Houston area. I would recommend the same to you. Anybody who tests your water to see that our tank is cycled and then lets you buy what you bought was setting you up as a repeat customer. I don't mean repeat like you need little things like this and that, I mean repeat like you repeatedly have to restock your tank. Bottom line is, slow down...you have what will be a beautiful tank, just not for a little while...if you are new to the hobby I would start with something a little easier....I would start with the clown, wait al ittle while and then go with the royal gramma. a 90 gallon is a good sized tank and since you cycled it with so much sand and rock, I would think you may even be able to add them 2 both at once if you have much experience. But that list you originally posted is not a starter list in a newly cycled tank by any means. Maybe Fish R Us would allow you to take some of the bigger more expensive fish back for credit you can use as your tank matures. Nitrates are a pain, but I would be worried about other things at this point. Test your water frequently, and worry about water changes if (when) you start seeing ammonia. Also 2 tangs in a tank is not a good idea, but a yellow and hippo look so different you might almost be able to get away with that if it wasnt a 90 gallon tank which is just too small. Also a flame and a coral beauty are both dwarf angel fish, which do not tend to like each other. Just a recommendation, I would ask what fish to buy from here as opposed to from your fish store. Some are good, yours is not.
 
draconius

draconius

New Member
A good rule of thumb from my understanding is that 1 in of fish to every 4 gallons of water. Plus like everyone else has said add fish over time not in a big mass amount, these fish are generally not cheap, so lossing one can be very costly. I have had my tank up and running for about 2 months now. And I have 6 fish in my tank and that including my sandsifter goby. Also i would check with the store if you got the fish pretty recently they might have some sort of live garentee, and you might be able to take it back if you have not already flushed it. Because it may have come with something from the store. Best of luck on your tank.
 
sfoister

sfoister

Member
This is going to be out of character for me but I'm surprised no one else has said it so forgive me for being blunt, but....
You said you have done research and this website has helped you a lot, but I would question exactly how much you are reading and WHERE you're reading if you didn't know that those fish were not only incompatible with eachother but waaaaaay too many to be adding all at once. One or two fish at a time there killer, that's max unless you want to risk overloading your bio filters and crashing your newly cycled tank.
A cycle just means that your water is no longer toxic, it doesn't mean it's stable. A stable tank takes months to build with proper stocking habits.
Read more, buy later.
 
myreef05

myreef05

Member
OMG, adding all those at once is way off the charts. Stop and start researching as you will find that was NOT the way to start for sure. Half of those cannot go in such a cramped space. (thats how I know proper research was not done)
 
txmedic1

txmedic1

Member
*** SIGH***

ok, so now that i feel even more inadequate, i'm questioning everything about anything....
i've read and heard that you can have two of the same kind of fish (ie, tangs) as long as they are not of the same genus (ie, yellow tangs).
i've cut back on the feeding to reduce waste, and keeping a close eye on the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.
what about this mysterious red algea i have forming in my refuge, long, stringy, whispy. is this red hair algae? should i put a snail in my refuge? is defintely not a "blanket" or leathery.
 
jacrmill

jacrmill

Member
is the algae red? or is it brown and powdery looking? if it is brown and powdery, i would say diatoms which are a sign of an immature tank. stop worrying abou whether or not to put a snail in your refuge, that is not that important and can be dealt with later. The algae isnt going to hurt anything, it is just a sign of things that are going on.
you originally said you took your water into your fish store to be tested, is that because you dont own a test kit? if so, I would take back an expensive fish and try to get in store credit and use that to buy a test kit. because at this point you need to be testing your water frequently. Also there is a product called biospira. it says it is supposed to help cycle your tank, i used it and it didnt hurt anything at least, but i dont know how much it helped. I added it to a cycled tank just for some reassurance. if your fish store carries it, it will be refridgerated. might want to try that, but i would strongly recommend you get a test kit and take some of your fish back. Dont get too discouraged, everybody makes mistakes in this hobby. bad thing is that it can get expensive and kill a couple fish. nobody is trying to make you feel bad, just trying put emphasis on the situation. you are set up for failure right now, we're just trying to give you advise to get back on the right track.
 
txmedic1

txmedic1

Member
i do have a marine master kit, thats how i have my current numbers......
i didnt initally have a kit, because i was told to get my tank set up, get the water, do my weekly water changes and forget about the tank for 4-6 weeks. no need for a test kit during a curing/cycling period. but yes, i do have a kit.
so for now, my next and immediate plans are:
closely watch livestock
watch water
start cycling a QT tank
and invest in a ro/di unit (tired of hauling water)
 
txmedic1

txmedic1

Member
wow, cool site. thanks...i bought my tank and set up from T&T. i'm suprised to see them so active on that site.
 
txmedic1

txmedic1

Member
my water last night was excellent, 80degrees, ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, salinty 1.023. fish seem happy, just worried about this red algae in my sump, and cant get any straight answers.....
 
sfoister

sfoister

Member
Originally Posted by txmedic1
my water last night was excellent, 80degrees, ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, salinty 1.023. fish seem happy, just worried about this red algae in my sump, and cant get any straight answers.....
Siphon it out or pull it out by hand. It's not a huge deal, it's ugly and nasty but it's part of "new tank syndrome".
 
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