My plants won't open up. Help!

markimark

Member
I just upraded from 29 gal tank to a 46 gal bowfront. Its been about two weeks. I noticed yesterday that my corals wont open up. I checked all my water parameters and my Ph and salt was a low (had a Ph of 7.2) then I got the Ph booster and now its perfect at 8.2! and got my salt up. Any thing I could do to help my corals? I have the coral smoothie, should I add it? idk what to do help!

 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
You can't feed a coral if it isn't open to feed, you will just pollute the tank. 7.2 is lower than freshwater (7.8) so maybe your tests are off...what does your hydromater or refractometer say the SG is at? I would think that if the PH was actually that low...freshwater, then the corals are doomed to die and it takes them a long time to melt away. You could no way keep coral in freshwater for two weeks. You couldn't keep SW fish alive either so something is off.
P.S.
Corals in the pictures do not look dead, so I am not saying they are....I'm saying your test is off.
 

markimark

Member
Hey thanks for the reply, and I went to my saltwater fish store and they actually checked my water for me and they said my ph was really low like a 7.2 he said approximately because the color was off the chart. Is that even possible? And I bought my ph tester kit and I tested it it said it's 8.2! And my sg is 1.020.. What do you think is the best thing to do now?
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markimark http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3492820
Hey thanks for the reply, and I went to my saltwater fish store and they actually checked my water for me and they said my ph was really low like a 7.2 he said approximately because the color was off the chart. Is that even possible? And I bought my ph tester kit and I tested it it said it's 8.2! And my sg is 1.020.. What do you think is the best thing to do now?
Get yourself a good lab type test kit, order one from on-line and test your water yourself. If your PH is that low, that is the reason the coral (not plants, corals are marine creatures) have not opened back up. If the corals have been exposed to such a low PH for two weeks, it may be too late to revive them, but corals have survived so much, so never say never until it's a pool of mush or a skeleton....LOL...even then they may come back.
PH is different than SG...PH can be very low and yet not be freshwater. I kind of was told that once before
...so while digging for an answer for you, I learned something myself.
pH
-Measures the acidity of the water by test kits, electronic probes, and various other testing devices. A pH reading of 7.0 is neutral. A pH reading of above 7.0 is alkaline, and a pH of less than 7.0 is acidic. Fish can survive in a pH range from 5.0-9.5. Most freshwater tanks should be kept slightly acidic (6.5-7.0) for egg-laying fish, and slightly alkaline (7.2-7.6) for live-bearing fish. However, there are exceptions (i.e. Cichlids 7.5-8.5). Saltwater aquariums are safe in the 7.4-9.0 range. Different aquarium setups and different inhabitants have different pH levels.
Salinity
-Measured mainly in Specific Gravity (SG), and Conductivity (C) by use of a hydrometer or electronic probe. Saltwater is heavier than freshwater. There are many more minerals in seawater, including Sodium Chloride (NaCl) which is it's major component and constitutes about 30% of the total elements in seawater. Thus, SG measures the density of the aquarium water. Beware that many brands of hydrometers will give different readings at different temperatures. Freshwater tanks should have an SG of 1.000-1.005. Most marine tanks should have an SG of 1.020-1.025. Seawater is also more conductive than freshwater. It is able to carry current, because it is more dense. Some aquarists around the world measure the water by it's conductivity readings, which has a direct correlation to the SG of the aquarium water.
After you get your hands on a new test kit...post the numbers and we will see what we can do to help. The fact that you have already upped the PH and SG may be enough to get them to peek out. Fingers crossed, don't try and feed the coral if they have not bloomed (opened)
 

markimark

Member
That was a very helpful information you gave me! Thanks, and where can I get one of those testing kits online, is there a good website you shop on? But could there be any other reason I'm having this happen? Since I just changed tanks??
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markimark http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3492826
That was a very helpful information you gave me! Thanks, and where can I get one of those testing kits online, is there a good website you shop on? But could there be any other reason I'm having this happen? Since I just changed tanks??
Sounds like you didn't match the tanks water parameters and the corals got shocked. Even when you do water changes you have to match the parameters and you placed your corals in a whole new bigger world. Corals have lived in the ocean unchanged for a very long time, they don't handle it well when the water changes too fast on them.
I google SeaChem (my choice of test kits) and pick the cheapest that matches my needs. I got a multi kit saltwater, and another multi kit for reefs. So I had all the tests I wanted.
 

markimark

Member
When you said they got shocked, does that mean they died? And yeah ill Google that and look for a multi test kit! I
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markimark http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3492832
When you said they got shocked, does that mean they died? And yeah ill Google that and look for a multi test kit! I
Well it can lead to death... Your corals are a alive creature and you suddenly did something and they can't move.
Example, I don't know if it's a good one...a frog has no body heat of it's own, it has the temperature of the air around it. If you take a frog from cold water and place him suddenly in warm water, it's system will be so shocked it can't move, even a toe. After a bit it's body will adjust and he will hop away unharmed. Corals are not as resilient as the frog, and they don't readjust their systems that fast... if ever.
 

markimark

Member
Well I guess all I can do now is hope they are not dead, thanks for all your help!! I'm gonna get the testing kits and test my water as soon as I can
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markimark http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3492835
Well I guess all I can do now is hope they are not dead, thanks for all your help!! I'm gonna get the testing kits and test my water as soon as I can
Turn on the lights and treat the tank like all is well, maybe they will snap out of it....and get those test kits ASAP and post the results.
 

markimark

Member
Okay hey I received my test kit, the API Reef master. My results are..
Calcium - 360 mg/L
KH - 26 dKH
Phosphate - 2.0
Nitrate - 160
Any of these bad??? Thanks !!
 

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:Originally Posted by Markimark http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3493412
Okay hey I received my test kit, the API Reef master. My results are..
Calcium - 360 mg/L
KH - 26 dKH
Phosphate - 2.0
Nitrate - 160
Any of these bad??? Thanks !!
Hi,
You have been getting great advice from Flower so far. She is great!!
Your levels are a bit off
Calcium is a bit low (not the worse thing in the world if you don't have hard corals) 440 is ideal
KH is way high (you might want to test that one again. If it is an API test you just add one drop and mix at a time until the color changes. It should be ).
Phos is high as well
Nitrate also way high (fish can tolerate higher nitrates but you would want to keep them around 80, corals do not tolerate them nearly as much, you want to keep it as low as possible. Under 20 at least.
I would start mixing some water for a water change. Maybe a big one. For example if you do a 50% water change your nitrates will only go down to 80ppm. And you are looking at getting under 20ppm for keeping corals. I would say that a series of larger water changes are in order.
Your tests may be a little off. It takes a while to get the hang of doing lab style tests. I would take a few more reading and make sure that the results are accurate.
What kind of lighting do you have for your system? Tell us a little more about your set up. What size? What kind of filtration do you use?
Here is a little chart I copied form Saltwater Aquarium Online Guide for your reference. It shows where you want your parameters for a reef aquarium, FOWLR, and the ocean coral reefs.
HTH's!!!!




Aquarium
Parameters




Suggested Level:
Reef Aquarium




Suggested Level:
FOWLR Aquarium




Average Level:
Coral Reefs








Specific Gravity



1.023 - 1.025



1.020 - 1.025



1.025







Temperature



72 - 78°F



72 - 78°F



82°F





pH



8.1 - 8.4
/>

8.1 - 8.4



8.0 - 8.5





Alkalinity



8 - 12 dKH



8 - 12 dKH



6 - 8 dKH







Ammonia (NH3)



Undetectable



Undetectable



Near Zero







Nitrite (NO2)



Undetectable



Undetectable



Near Zero







Nitrate -
Nitrogen (NO3)



< 1.0 ppm



< 30 ppm



< 0.25 ppm







Phosphate (PO4)



< 0.2 ppm



< 1.0 ppm



< 0.13 ppm







Calcium



350 - 450 ppm



350 - 450 ppm



380 - 420 ppm







Magnesium



1250 - 1350 ppm



1150 - 1350 ppm



1300 ppm







Iodine



0.06 - 0.10 ppm



0.04 - 0.10 ppm



0.06 ppm







Strontium



8 - 14 ppm



4 - 10 ppm



8 - 10 ppm
 

sweatervest13

Active Member
Also,
Did you get an ammonia, nitrite, and PH test?? Those are basic ones to have as well. Sounds like you bought the API Reef master test kit. Their basic master kit will have those other three tests.
 

markimark

Member
Okay thanks :)
Okay sorry, I have a 46 gallon bow front aquarium. With t5 coralife dual lights, it's the 30" one. I made it fit by putting this wooden thing on top so it stays, you think my light are good enough, and I use the a filter that filters up to 60 gallons I'm not sure what it's called!
And I had a question about the water change you told me. Should I take out 10 gallons and add 5 gallons of salt water and 5 gallons of RO water? Would that be enough? My salinity is 1.021 by the way
Another thing I'm having brown algae coming up on my power head and on my glass, is that diatoms?
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Coral is a marine creature, yes. It is also an animal.
You most likely have diatoms. How old is your setup?
If I were you, I want to raise your salinity, but A) it isn't a big deal and B)do so gradually. Gradual is the key here. Doing a larger water change may be in order. Mix your saltwater before adding it. Mix some saltwater in a separate container and heat it so that it doesn't shock the tank. Test the water too. I would get the SG to a level of about 1.023. That way it will raise the salinity in the tank, but only a little. The best way to raise salinity is to top off the tank with saltwater and continually test. If you aren't familiar with what topping off is, it goes like this: Water evaporates from the tank which raises the salinity (because salt does not evaporate, see). To remedy this, you should mark where the water level is and add freshwater to the tank when the water level dips below that mark (does that make sense?) But if you use saltwater to top off (for a short while), the salinity will increase rather than remain constant.
You want 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. With a good salt mix (what do you use), proper feedings, and good filtration, this can be achieved (well, I guess 0 is technically impossible, but you catch my drift). This can be achieved through a variety of methods. Water changes and filtration are usually the key to this. You can also use chemical filtration to reduce your nitrates and phosphates. If that's a route you want to take, hit up the search bar and learn more about it. It isn't a quick fix (but nothing in this hobby that works is a quick fix).
You probably want to add more filtration. I know that what you have is rated for 60 gallons, but you can never have water that is too filtered (because even if you have filter-feeders, you can spot feed them). A protein skimmer is not a bad idea either (I didn't see you mention having one). Can you figure out/describe the filter? I am going to assume that it is carbon filtration.
Also, try to get tests to evaluate all of the above levels. Your lighting system sounds okay, but could you give us more specs for it?
 

markimark

Member
Hey I appreciate your reply!
Yeah those diatoms go away with water change you think ? or when the tank matures.
You think a ten gallon water change will be enough, if I mix the 5 gal of saltwater and 5 gal ro water? I get my water from my fish store, its the reverse osmosis water! I buy them all ready mixed.
You said heat it, how do I do that ? is the water supposed to be warm? And yes I know what topping off is . I was topping off with my saltwater last few times because I knew it was a bit low.
You suggest I keep doing that?
I read about the chemical filteration, where could I buy the good quality carbon from?
And I have another filter which does up to 30 gal , should I add that in?
I use the Whisper 30-60 carbon filtration.
I know this is a lot of questions lol please help me out! Thank you
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3493460
Coral is a marine creature, yes. It is also an animal.
You most likely have diatoms. How old is your setup?
If I were you, I want to raise your salinity, but A) it isn't a big deal and B)do so gradually. Gradual is the key here. Doing a larger water change may be in order. Mix your saltwater before adding it. Mix some saltwater in a separate container and heat it so that it doesn't shock the tank. Test the water too. I would get the SG to a level of about 1.023. That way it will raise the salinity in the tank, but only a little. The best way to raise salinity is to top off the tank with saltwater and continually test. If you aren't familiar with what topping off is, it goes like this: Water evaporates from the tank which raises the salinity (because salt does not evaporate, see). To remedy this, you should mark where the water level is and add freshwater to the tank when the water level dips below that mark (does that make sense?) But if you use saltwater to top off (for a short while), the salinity will increase rather than remain constant.
You want 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. With a good salt mix (what do you use), proper feedings, and good filtration, this can be achieved (well, I guess 0 is technically impossible, but you catch my drift). This can be achieved through a variety of methods. Water changes and filtration are usually the key to this. You can also use chemical filtration to reduce your nitrates and phosphates. If that's a route you want to take, hit up the search bar and learn more about it. It isn't a quick fix (but nothing in this hobby that works is a quick fix).
You probably want to add more filtration. I know that what you have is rated for 60 gallons, but you can never have water that is too filtered (because even if you have filter-feeders, you can spot feed them). A protein skimmer is not a bad idea either (I didn't see you mention having one). Can you figure out/describe the filter? I am going to assume that it is carbon filtration.
Also, try to get tests to evaluate all of the above levels. Your lighting system sounds okay, but could you give us more specs for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markimark
http:///t/392957/my-plants-wont-open-up-help#post_3493479
Hey I appreciate your reply!
Yeah those diatoms go away with water change you think ? or when the tank matures.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/a/diatom-algae I wrote this a few years ago. I think you might find it helpful. It is doubtful that the diatoms will go away after a water change, but ultimately that is okay. They do not hurt anything. Eventually, your tank will mature, your water quality will stabilize, and your tank will be free of silicates. Then the diatoms go away. In the meantime, appreciate one of nature's most beautiful lifeforms.
You think a ten gallon water change will be enough, if I mix the 5 gal of saltwater and 5 gal ro water? I get my water from my fish store, its the reverse osmosis water! I buy them all ready mixed.
I still don't understand this question. Why would you mix the 5 gallons of saltwater and 5 gallons of freshwater and add it to the tank? If it is bought premixed, then just add it. I would do a larger water change if I were you. You have a 46 gallon tank. Factor out the rocks and that is what? 30 gallons roughly? If you do a 15 gallon change, that would replace half the water and cut your bad levels in half. Theoretically, a water change this large should not hurt the tank UNLESS the water that is going in this tank has vastly different levels (ie temperature pH, etc).
You said heat it, how do I do that ? is the water supposed to be warm? And yes I know what topping off is . I was topping off with my saltwater last few times because I knew it was a bit low.
You suggest I keep doing that?
You don't own a submersible heater? Well, I know that when I mix my own saltwater, the RO water that I start with is usually less than 70 degrees. That's bad. If you add water that is this cold to the tank, then you will shock the inhabitants. You want to make sure that it is the same, or close to the same temperature. If this is unmanageable, then add it in portions ensuring that the net temperature remains constant (or close to it). Gradual, everything gradual. Get creative. How do you heat the water you have now? You put a light on it, right? When don't you use your light? Owning a saltwater aquarium is an exercise of the mind.
If you get your water premixed and you plan to continue doing this, then fighting the SG is going to be an uphill battle. You may simply want to give in and keep that SG at 1.021. This is on the low end and out of the recommended range, but not horribly so.
I read about the chemical filteration, where could I buy the good quality carbon from?
And I have another filter which does up to 30 gal , should I add that in?
I use the Whisper 30-60 carbon filtratifon.
Yeah, add another filter. No harm in that. Look up phosban, some people like it. You should look into a skimmer and research HOB refugiums (natural is almost always better). Shop around on craigslist.
I'll give you an idea of the filtration on my tank. I have a sump, so the water flows from the display tank to a hidden tank below. It gets prefiltered (just with a sponge) before entering the sump. Once in the sump it gets picked up by the carbon filter (like you have) My tank is a 29 and I believe this filter is for a 75 gallon. Then it goes through a phosphate reactor (which is the chemical filtration to remove phosphates). Then it goes through a s of acrylic where it is filtered with more sponges and bioballs (I got these for free. I'm not a huge fan, but I own them and there is space for them). Then it goes into the refugium. In the refugium I have chaetomorpha, which is a macroalgae. This helps with phosphates and nitrates. Then the water gets skimmed by my protein skimmer (rated for 100 gallons) and is pushed back out into the display tank. Is all of this necessary? I also do weekly 10 % water changes. Is all of that necessary, no. Is this way the best way, no. You should always try to learn as much as possible before making changes or buying new things. But no matter how good you are, you learn as you go and you do what you can.
>
I know this is a lot of questions lol please help me out! Thank you
 

markimark

Member
Thanks I learned a lot lol
So I guess I won't be worrying about the diatoms for now!
Okay so I just did 10 gal water change last night. And I will check the water parameters and post them in a sec.
Right now my salinity is 1.020 and I'm slowly adding mixed salt to the water and gradually bringing up my salinity.
Yeah I was looking into a skimmer but they are really expensive you know? So I might get it along the road.
So another question my old 29 gal tank I wanna put a sump in. Can you give me more info on it? Can I make the sump myself ? Or do I have to buy it. And where could I get it ?
Thanks!!
 
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