My proposed cleanup crew.. how does this look?

[aixenv]

tank is a 55-60G with 60lbs of live rock and 3 bags of live sand
sand sifting crab x 5
sally lightfoot x2
boxing crab x1
scarlet hermit crab x2
emerald crab x2
blueleg hermit crab x10
porcelain crab x2
cleaner clam x2
fighting conch - aquacultured x2
2 cleaner shrimp
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
peppermint x5
empty hermit shells
gold coral banded shrimp (acclimate him last)
how does this look? anything im missing?
thanks!

 

[fishygurl]

tongan nassarius snails x10 (here i think they are the fancy nassarius)
boxing crab x1
emerald crab x2
porcelain crab
fighting conch - aquacultured x2
2 cleaner shrimp
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
peppermint x5
astrea snails x10
i would get something more like that for a reef but thats just my opinion

 

[shinobi9119]

Unless you have fish in the tank you may want to wait on the cleaner shrimp until you have fish. But that is just from taking a quick glance at the list. I hope someone else will chime in with better advice.

 

[fishygurl]

Originally Posted by Shinobi9119
http:///forum/post/2660731
Unless you have fish in the tank you may want to wait on the cleaner shrimp until you have fish. But that is just from taking a quick glance at the list. I hope someone else will chime in with better advice.
it doesnt matter if there are fish in there or not, however a older tank (not just out of a cycle) is more safer to make sure they make it..
cleaner shrimp can survive without fish as long as u feed them

 

[candycane]

I am going with that is WAY to much stuff for a 55 gallon. Are you planning on upgrading to a 250 soon?
The things you are looking at adding are primarily all carnivores or omnivores. They gotta start competeing for food at some point.
Ideally, IMO, it should probably look more like this for that sized tank
emerald crab - would probably go only females, if at all
fighting conch - great choice
2 cleaner shrimp
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
1 peppermint shrimp
Then some sort of sand sifting snail that also eats algae. Like ceriths. Maybe 15 of them or so

 

[aixenv]

i have two fish in there already (got them as a birthday present), tank is cycled, ammonia is 0, nitrate and nitrite are 0, and my salinity is good
and im still up in the air about having metal halides so i know that would drastically reduce the list of possible reef options, so it might just be a fish + bubbletip anenome tank eventually,.. i dont have the space for a chiller and from what ive read i need one for metal halides

 

[aixenv]

Originally Posted by candycane
http:///forum/post/2660750
I am going with that is WAY to much stuff for a 55 gallon. Are you planning on upgrading to a 250 soon?
The things in that you are looking at adding are primarily all carnivores or omnivores. They gotta start competeing for food at some point.
Ideally, IMO, it should probably look more like this for that sized tank
emerald crab - would probably go only females, if at all
fighting conch - great choice
2 cleaner shrimp
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
1 peppermint shrimp
Then some sort of sand sifting snail that also eats algae. Like ceriths. Maybe 15 of them or so
interesting, thats honestly been my uneducated thoughts also, but i've talked to like 2 people in this "business" and they were like oh that's a great setup.. obviously there's some personal preference im just thinking like well i only have so much realestate and rock for them to live in ya know? and only so much sand... i dont want it to look or feel like i over crowded it lol
more feedback on this concept/debate point pls

 

[fishygurl]

Originally Posted by FishyGurl
http:///forum/post/2660728
tongan nassarius snails x10 (here i think they are the fancy nassarius)
boxing crab x1
emerald crab x2
porcelain crab
fighting conch - aquacultured x2
2 cleaner shrimp
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
peppermint x5
astrea snails x10
i would get something more like that for a reef but thats just my opinion
i dont think this is too much, maybe just one fighting conch tho.. so fighting conches stay in the sand along with nassarius snails, if u get the big ones u can get 5 and see how they do, one thing i like about nassarius snails is that they dont eat the good critters in your sand, like most sand sifters do..
boxing crab and porcelain crab arnt really for a clean up crew more of a decoration for the tank that adds something interesting to it..
cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp, and peppermint shrimp arnt imo really that much of a cuc either but they do help.. and yes looking at the tank size i wouldnt get 5 peps.. more like 3 if u REALLY want them.. if u get these i would get 1 cleaner shrimp if not u can get 2 if u want..
astrea snails stay on the glass or rock
so each of these has its own place, and looking at your tank size u might want to do the changes i made in this post.. if you like the look of this invert list

 

[aixenv]

ok, could i get 2 pepperments or should i get 3? i read they like to be in groups, is 2 enough?

 

[stanlalee]

too many crabs and a clean up crew void of snails will makes for a poor clean up crew, especially for algae and diatomssand sifting crab x 5:more specific. not sure what those are sally lightfoot x2you wouldn't need but one of these. they spend all day picking for scraps and are lighting fast. dont trust with small fish and mine ate zoas like candy so I got rid of it. I wouldn't put any crab that size in my tank
boxing crab x1
cool but more for your looking pleasure than clean up
scarlet hermit crab x2
whats the point of 2? thats 12 total hermits which is fine but seeing scarlets are usually a $1 more than blue legs I'd just get 2 more blue legs or the 10 I already had planned. dont see the significance in 2 additional scarlets
emerald crab x2
fine but they are too slow to be considered useful exept for bubble algae. If you dont have it they arent that efficient at anything else
blueleg hermit crab x10
thats about right
porcelain crab x2
again for your diversity/viewing. pretty useless otherwise compared to other cleaners
cleaner clam x2
never used/needed them. suppose to utilize nitrates. I prefer cheato in the sump but dont see any real problem there
fighting conch - aquacultured x2
you probably only need one. I had 4 of em in a 6ft tank but with lots of open sand. IF you dont have lots of open sand dont get two. they are heavy diatom eaters and need alot of it.
2 cleaner shrimp
fine but other than cleaning up the scraps during feeding they are mostly for your pleasure than part of the clean up crew
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
no cleaning value at all except the hole they occupy. good for your pleasure though
peppermint x5
just like cleaners but less interesting and shorter lived. suposedly eats atapsia (another subject alltogther but not a fast spreader in good tank conditions)
empty hermit shells
hermits need shells
gold coral banded shrimp (acclimate him last)
more for your pleasure
how does this look? anything im missing?
basically it sucks for clean up but hella interesting for diversity and viewing. some of those crab and shrimp are likely going to end up in the mouths of others sooner or later with them all in that size tank. snails are the backbone of a clean up crew especially for the liverock at least until coraline covers it. you have enough to handle the carnivorous left overs (probably too much in that regard) but not much in the way of algae control.

 

[aixenv]

Originally Posted by Stanlaleehttp:///forum/post/2660834too many crabs and a clean up crew void of snails will makes for a poor clean up crew, especially for algae and diatomssand sifting crab x 5:
more specific. not sure what those are
sally lightfoot x2
you wouldn't need but one of these. they spend all day picking for scraps and are lighting fast. dont trust with small fish and mine ate zoas like candy so I got rid of it. I wouldn't put any crab that size in my tank
boxing crab x1
cool but more for your looking pleasure than clean up
scarlet hermit crab x2
whats the point of 2? thats 12 total hermits which is fine but seeing scarlets are usually a $1 more than blue legs I'd just get 2 more blue legs or the 10 I already had planned. dont see the significance in 2 additional scarlets
emerald crab x2
fine but they are too slow to be considered useful exept for bubble algae. If you dont have it they arent that efficient at anything else
blueleg hermit crab x10
thats about right
porcelain crab x2
again for your diversity/viewing. pretty useless otherwise compared to other cleaners
cleaner clam x2
never used/needed them. suppose to utilize nitrates. I prefer cheato in the sump but dont see any real problem there
fighting conch - aquacultured x2
you probably only need one. I had 4 of em in a 6ft tank but with lots of open sand. IF you dont have lots of open sand dont get two. they are heavy diatom eaters and need alot of it.
2 cleaner shrimp
fine but other than cleaning up the scraps during feeding they are mostly for your pleasure than part of the clean up crew
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby
no cleaning value at all except the hole they occupy. good for your pleasure though
peppermint x5
just like cleaners but less interesting and shorter lived. suposedly eats atapsia (another subject alltogther but not a fast spreader in good tank conditions)
empty hermit shells
hermits need shells
gold coral banded shrimp (acclimate him last)
more for your pleasure
how does this look? anything im missing?
basically it sucks for clean up but hella interesting for diversity and viewing. some of those crab and shrimp are likely going to end up in the mouths of others sooner or later with them all in that size tank. snails are the backbone of a clean up crew especially for the liverock at least until coraline covers it. you have enough to handle the carnivorous left overs (probably too much in that regard) but not much in the way of algae control.
thank you for the detailed break down, again i am new at this and just trying to find a happy medium of deversity, "coolness", and actual cleanup proficiency,
what would your recommendation be?
oh also, the sand sifting crab was
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...ot_parent_id=4

 

[fishygurl]

Originally Posted by aixenv
http:///forum/post/2660804
ok, could i get 2 pepperments or should i get 3? i read they like to be in groups, is 2 enough?
2 is fine but i would get 3 instead.. why do u want 2? are u still wanting 2 cleaner shrimp or just 1?

 

[aixenv]

How about this for a revised list of inverts/cleanup ?
fancy nassarius x2 (cleanup)
cerith snail x10 (cleanup)
boxing crab x1 (for looks)
emerald x1 (color/diveristy)
scarlet hermit x1 (color/diversity)
porcelain x2 (color/diversity)
cleaner shrimp x2 (cleanup on fish)
fighting conch - x1 (cleanup)
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby (looks/diversity)
peppermint x3 (diversity/cleanup a bit/looks)
astrea snails x10 (cleanup)
gold coral banded shrimp (looks, acclimate last)

 

[fishygurl]

Originally Posted by aixenv
http:///forum/post/2660874
How about this for a revised list of inverts/cleanup ?
fancy nassarius x2 (cleanup)
cerith snail x10 (cleanup)
boxing crab x1 (for looks)
emerald x1 (color/diveristy)
scarlet hermit x1 (color/diversity)
porcelain x2 (color/diversity)
cleaner shrimp x2 (cleanup on fish)
fighting conch - x1 (cleanup)
pistol shrimp w/shrimp goby (looks/diversity)
peppermint x3 (diversity/cleanup a bit/looks)
astrea snails x10 (cleanup)
gold coral banded shrimp (looks, acclimate last)
i say that looks pretty good, although i wouldnt get the scarlet hermit i personally dont like hermit crabs anymore, since i bought 100 shells for them but they still killed my snails for the shell even though i had hundreds laying around for them...
also coral banded shrimp are rather aggressive and can chase fish or other shrimp and try to eat them so i wouldnt get one of them either...

 

[aixenv]

my fish are going to be
1) yellow tail damsel
2) 4 stripe damsel
3) occelaris clownfish (nemo hehe)
4) blue tang (dory hehe)
5) mandarinfish
6) shrimp goby
7) possibly 1 more or possibly not
appreciate the input, only the scarlet hermit could possibly kill the snails? the other crabs will be peaceful? good to know about the coral banded, given my fish selection do you think this might be an issue?

 

[rebelprettyboy]

no tang and no madargin tank to small.. if if u insist on the manadrain get a year down the roads. and buy alot of pods

 

[aixenv]

Originally Posted by rebelprettyboy
http:///forum/post/2661019
no tang and no madargin tank to small.. if if u insist on the manadrain get a year down the roads. and buy alot of pods
ive seen that said about the tang, yet ive also had ppl say that's fine...
hippo blue tang:
Size: 1 - 3 inches
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Peaceful
Diet: Pellet, Flake, Greens
Origin: Indian Ocean
Acclimation Time: 4+ hours
Minimum Tank Size: 40 gallons
Coral Safe: Yes
Invertebrate Safe: Yes
mandarinfish:
Size: 1-2 inches
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Peaceful
Reef Safe: Yes
Diet: Live Worms, Live Brine, Copepods
Origin: Indian Ocean
Acclimation Time: 3+ hours
Minimum Tank Size: 10 gallons
Coral Safe: Yes
Invertebrate Safe: Yes
straight from this website... my tank is 60 gallons yet it's too small?

 

[stanlalee]

depends on the size of the hippo and your care level (on the site they base tank size on tang size. look at the larger sizes and you'll see the tank size goes up as well).
here was my tang at about 1.25" housed in a 30g

and the same tang twice the size in a 6ft 100g a year later

your tank is plenty large enough space wise for a manderin, its a matter of being large enough to kept it fed naturally. At the very least you'd have to wait 6 months minimum, not keep any pod eaters like wrasses and pseudocrhomis and have a fuge with rubble piles for copepods to get it on and multiply.
Oh yeah the clean up crew looks much better now!

 

[aixenv]

thanks i appreciate it

 

[fishygurl]

i wouldnt get the blue hippo tang they are open water swimmers and swim alot all day.. also they get around 12 inches, so unless you want to keep trading them in every couple months which a lot of the time doesnt happen i wouldnt do it..
i also would not get the mandarin unless you have a lot of money along with a big refugium to house the pods..
i also wouldnt get the damsels..
Here are some fish that i think you could get:
2 clowns
1 blackcap basslet or royal gramma
1 yellow eyed kole tang (may be able to keep even when full grown since they arnt open water swimmers)
1 yellow wrasse, flame wrasse, sixline wrasse, or a fairy wrasse
2 bangaii cardinals
1 jawfish (if your sand is 3+ inches deep) or 1 shrimp/goby pair
1 firefish
1 clown goby
1 lawnmower blenny or bicolor blenny
do you like any of these?