My starfish killed my trigger fish!! Pics.

[wingit]

Originally posted by lovethesea
Wingit...........did you see Ophiura's reply? I think she is the starfish guru. Seems there was a problem with system and some posts were lost. She stated same as me about CC star. She said to post your readings and let her know about your tank. CC star will not go after a fish such as yours unless sick or dead.

Yeah, I saw that post and I replied to it - looks like some posts got deleted. I was saying that I agreed that most CC stars aren't aggressive and won't go after a healthy fish. My question was that, because the Humu likes to sleep so much, doesn't that make him an easy target - kind of like a dead or dying fish? The star could have slowly covered up his exit and locked Humu in there before he knew what was going on. Does the star only prey on dead or dying fish because they are easy to catch?... if so, Humu, while sleeping, was easy to catch... OR, does he only like the taste of dead or dying fish?
Now, check this out. As I was writing that post, the star murdered our best snail, Slimer. Slimer was no sick snail! Did our star get the taste for blood, and then go on a killing spree? Check out the pics.
I will post the water readings next time my roommate takes them. The tank is a 20 gallon tank with a small domino damsel, a small maroon clown, and a small royal dotty back - we added a small orange tail damsel, a wrasse, and a cleaner shrimp after Humu died.

 

[wingit]

one more

 

[ddaddy]

One of my choco stars did the same thing just after he ate some of my pulse xenia. It's very peculiar what happened to the one, that whole guts spilling out thing isn't very cool at all. When I heard that they can eat clams when they get to a larger size the second one was guilty by association and is no longer w/ me. I personally don't think stars should be kept in any sort of tank just because they are expert predators and can't be trusted. I lost a goby, sally lightfoot and a whole lotta snails to one brittle star and my xenia coral to those choco stars. After that I'm never getting another star again.

 

[lovethesea]

never keep a CC star in any sort of a reef tank. They are carnivors. It is know that they are not reef safe. Our star just goes right over stuff ie: snails, crabs. Never eats them. I don't know what is the problem. Maybe Ophiura has an answer. We have never had an agression problem. We have about 8 turbos and 4 crabs and still all accounted for. Also a hitchhiker snail (looks

[hr]
, I forgot his name) of some sort that I have seen literally under Chip and Chip went on about his business.
ddaddy....don't forget about your star not being reef safe. You can get them, many people here do, they are a great addition to a tank. Just make sure the are reef safe.

 

[lovethesea]

Wingit.....I forgot to mention, your 20 gallon may be overstocked, especially when you had the huma, not sure, but I thought huma gets pretty big and needs a lot of room. Now that he is gone, is slime still present on fish? Hopefully not, and you can clear up your tank so no one else will get sick.

 

[wingit]

We were sticking to the 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons of water rule. The Humu was only 2 inches and the others were an inch or less. The guy at the fish store said we should be OK. The star and, crabs, etc. aren't supposed to add to the load, so I'm not counting those. So far, Domino and Spaz (that's the name of the royal dootty) are still looking a little frosty, but then again we only added the cleaner shrimp and the wrasse yesterday, so we should give them a few days to work their magic.
Get this, Domino and Spaz are attacking the Orange tail damsel we got yesterday. They chase it around the tank until it's almost dead, then leave him in a corner. Its fins are all torn up and he's not looking good. They are doing the same thing to the wrasse, just not as bad. If this continues and anyone dies, we will be pressing charges against Domino and Spaz and holding a trial right here on SWF.com to decide their fate.

 

[wingit]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
10/26/03 8:23 PST - Los Angeles, CA
At approximately 8:15 pm this evening, my roommate placed Spaz under arrest for aggravated assault on our new Orange Tail damsel. The damsel was found almost dead in a corner of the tank with his fins torn to shreds. It is unclear at this time whether or not my roommate has enough evidence to press charges against the dotty back. Spaz will remain in custody for at least 24 hours while an investigation is underway. The Orange tail damsel is currently listed in critical condition. Expect an update tomorrow regarding his condition. Attached are photograps of the suspect and the victim.

 

[wingit]

the victim

 

[lovethesea]

LOL, I already was the starfish public defender......so conflict of interest..
man, you got a lot goin' on there. Squabbles everywhere, you don't know who to trust.

 

[wingits roomate]

This is wingit’s roommate. I took some water tests yesterday and the readings were as follows:
Temperature: 80 degrees
Specific Gravity: 1.022
Ph: 8.2
Ammonia (NH3/NH4): undetectable
Nitrites (NO2): undetectable
Nitrates (NO3): less than 20
These measurements all indicate that the conditions in the tank are within acceptable parameters and were an unlikely cause of the Humu Triggerfish fatality.
The disease that wingit is spotting on the Domino Damsel appears to be Oodinium (Velvet Disease). The whitish film on the Domino’s body and slightly rapid breathing are symptoms consistent with Oodinium. However, the disease does not appear to have spread to other fish in the tank. Furthermore, The Humu Trigger showed no symptoms of Oodinium before his tragic demise.
After the Chocolate Chip Starfish ate the first Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp in the tank, the Humu Trigger had a very brief bout with Ich, but successfully fought it off and had been symptom free for over a month. The Humu was eating well and did not have any unusual behaviors. He did spend much of his time hiding in a rock but that behavior coincided with me decreasing the lights on time in the tank to combat an algae bloom. Although Humu had been slightly depressed from the recent switch from brine shrimp to squid for meals, his acquaintances described his demeanor immediately before his death as happy and upbeat.
All of the evidence surrounding Humu’s death overwhelming indicates a homicide. As such formal charges have been brought against the Chocolate Chip Starfish.
The Trial
The Fish of the Republic of Marine Life v. Chocolate Chip Starfish, Protoreastor Nodosus aka, “The Chocolate Chainsaw”

The Republic of Marine Life brings this criminal action for Murder in the First Degree against one Chocolate Chip Starfish under §210.1 of the Marine Penal Code for the deaths of one Humu Triggerfish and one Astrea Snail.
Consistent with the provisions of the MPC the defendant shall be afforded an opportunity to defend himself before a jury of his peers. In since no starfish have responded to their jury summons, the jury pool will be open to all species. Warrants have been issued for the starfish who did not comply with their jury obligations. No more information is being released at this time.
Evidence

 

[j-cal]

This prolly isnt the time or place to laugh, but you HAVE to admit this is kidna funny in the whole set-up here

 

[overanalyzer]

Weclome to the board
Nice starfish pictures .....
your 20 is way overstoked and your issue with fish aggression will continue.
I always thought that chocolate chip stars were listed as non-reef safe meaning they would eat inverts.
figure you huma passed away or got stuck and became another nice snack for the star ....
good luck
EDIT_ I voted to not get another trigger- because the 20 gallon tank is way too small for them!

 

[lovethesea]

HAAAAAAAAAA!! I LOL on that too. I kept hearing the soundtrack from Dragnet in my head. I loved the pic of the star in hand cuffs.
too funny. I would love to know why he went after your snail. (maybe it will come out during the trial)

Is this disease something you can get rid of? Like I said, I am not a disease expert. Hope so.

 

[ophiura]

Originally posted by lovethesea
I would love to know why he went after your snail.
He went after the snail because that is something it would normally eat in the wild. It is its normal diet. What does this chocolate chip star get fed, not that it would necessarily stop this behavior.
I have no idea what happened to the original post of mine.
It seems clear to me that this tank is overstocked with not terribly compatible fish. My 15 g tank has 1 damselfish in it, and it will attack ME when I put my hand in there. I can't even imagine all of those fish in that tank, and it is no surprise that aggression is starting to rule, and fish are dying with disease outbreaks.
Of course the LFS guy said it would be OK...how much money did you hand over??
Hmmm. Healthy triggerfish being trapped by small chocolate chip star. Nope. Don't think so. Even if woken up, fish can do a pretty good job of forcing their way out of this situation. And the trigger does not show signs of how it died....predatory attacks usually result in some sort of tissue damage and it just doesn't seem that way in the picture. And it certainly wouldn't have sucked out the triggers guts. Seastars don't digest things that way...they don't pick at something like shrimp do.
I think there is indication of trouble...fish don't get ick because of lack of cleaner shrimp. Seems to me you have other issues going on here, and spending time worrying about the seastar is time wasted in avoiding the real issue.
I would seriously consider looking for a new home for the star, because it is with animals that it will eat (snails, etc) and there is nothing wrong with it carrying about with its normal instinctive behavior. You have the wrong tank for it. Please return it to the LFS.

 

[lovethesea]

ophiura....we have a bunch of snails and Chip doesnt give them a glance. We feed him a piece of shrimp every 4 or 5 days, other than that he grazes. Why doesn't he go after the snails in our tank? Just wondering.

 

[wingit]

Ophiura & overanalyzer,
The star normally gets fed frozen brine shrimp. He gets plenty to eat, but he never seems to get full.
You have made some persuasive arguments regarding the star. I am recommending that the starfish be released from custody immediately.
I think my roommate will be taking the star back to the fish store and trading him in on a new bubble annenome. The clown should like it, and the snails will appreciate having the star gone.
I don't think the fish have ick... in fact, they are all looking pretty damn good right now.
Thanks for your work on this case!
Lovethesea,
All I can say is, be careful! Chip may look cute, but as ophiura & over said, these stars are natural killers! He will hunt down your snails just like our star did to Slimer - consider yourself lucky so far! Given the shocking outcome of this investigation, it should now be clear that it's just not safe to have stars in the same tank with snails. Now that you have knowledge of the star's lethal propensities, I would advise you to quarantine Chip and take him back to the fish store, OR quarantine your snails and return them to the fish store. If you fail to take these corrective measures, you will be considered a co-conspirator with Chip if any of your snails go missing!
To everyone else on the boards, please be responsible with your chocolate stars. Tragedy has already struck in our tank - it's too late for Slimer, but it's not too late for your snails. If Slimer's death can save the lives of other snails, then his death will not be in vein. Don't wait until it's too late!!

 

[lovethesea]

We have had chip for almost 2 years, he is a lazy bum. But we love him and hasn't bothered anyone. When we give our clown fish a small piece of shrimp to take to his anemone chip is at the top of the tank lickity split. He knows whats coming. I guess we keep him full and his grazing keeps his tank topped off. It will be interesting to see how the fish act when he is gone. How long have you had him?

 

[ophiura]

There are a couple of things involved in what a star will and will not eat.
For example, I have 3 green brittlestars in my 15 g tank, and none of them has ever really bothered the damsel or snails (though I think I might have seen one eyeing a hermit once). They are fed once a week...but others have huge problems with green brittlestars of the same size.
There is a big difference, IMO, between feeding brine shrimp and larger shrimp. Brine is very difficult to eat because, as it thaws, a lot will float away. There may also be differences in what the animal can scavenge in a tank, depending on the feeding habits. If a tank is fed relatively meaty stuff, versus feeding brine, there may be more larger bits for the star to scavenge.
A lot may be personality, etc....or it may be 'grazing' on a lot of stuff you don't know you have, like sponges, bryozoans, etc.
Wingit, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't trade it in for a bubble tip anemone without reading more about them. What type of lighting do you have, for example? Anemones can be tough to keep!!!!

 

[lovethesea]

Our spoiled fish and starfish get good old fashioned shrimp from the grocery store. I take a small sized one and slice in half. Half goes to Bozo (the clown fish) to take and he feeds his anemone and the other half goes to chip. He takes awhile to eat it, so I guess we are keeping him full. We have a FOWLR tank.

 

[wingit]

OK, I have good news on the tank - everything seems to be normal and the frostiness on Domino has gone. I really want to get a Flame Angel, but last time some people were saying that the tank might be overloaded. I want to get as many opinions as possible before adding a flame ("flamer" will be his name). Rather than describing the whole tank, please check it out here - my roommate registered the tank:
http://www.fishregistry.net/registryitem.asp?ID=151
Any input would be greatly appreciated - we do NOT want to lose another fish like Humu!!!!!!!