My tank is "crashing"/"recycling" :-(
- Thread starter azonic
- Start date
azonic
Active Member
Thank you for the detailed analysis.
I'm at my wit's end with this. My ammonia is back at 12mg/l in the few hours since I updated the thread earlier this evening...but the funny thing is, my fish don't see to be bothered by it anymore!!!
Most of my corals look like crap. My colt is a lump of mush, i can see the insides of my bubble coral, my frogspawn is mush...all corals look like lumps of crap basically. Even my BTA is opening up again...but the ammonia is still through the frickin' roof!
I'm at my wit's end with this. My ammonia is back at 12mg/l in the few hours since I updated the thread earlier this evening...but the funny thing is, my fish don't see to be bothered by it anymore!!!
Most of my corals look like crap. My colt is a lump of mush, i can see the insides of my bubble coral, my frogspawn is mush...all corals look like lumps of crap basically. Even my BTA is opening up again...but the ammonia is still through the frickin' roof!
josh
Active Member
Well Az,
Keep doing daily water changes and running carbon, there really isn't much more you can do. There is nothing out of the ordinary in the tank correct?
Keep on doing what you are doing, the only thing I can add is to take the water to your LFS and have them do a full battery of tests on it.
There is no quick answer, whatever happened is apparently going to take some time to correct. How big of water changes are you doing? You might need to go to a bigger water change, talking somewhere around 40% ( one time ) to get things back in whack.
Keep doing daily water changes and running carbon, there really isn't much more you can do. There is nothing out of the ordinary in the tank correct?
Keep on doing what you are doing, the only thing I can add is to take the water to your LFS and have them do a full battery of tests on it.
There is no quick answer, whatever happened is apparently going to take some time to correct. How big of water changes are you doing? You might need to go to a bigger water change, talking somewhere around 40% ( one time ) to get things back in whack.
azonic
Active Member
josh,
I did bring my water to the store today, they tested ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,nitrate,ph,calcium,phosphates, and iron.
ammonia was 8mg/l
nitrite was ...i believe 4mg/l
nitrate was 20
ph was 8.4
calcium was 480
phosphates and iron were 0
My water change today was 20 gallons....works out to 22%. I usually keep my SG up around 1.025 because i notice the corals seem to open more...even though it's harder on the fish..so today I did the water change with 1.022 water to try and slowly bring the SG to around 1.022 or 1.023 to hopefully ease some stress on the fish. Do you think this would be wise to do in my next change as well? I'll make the next change around 35 gallons..most likely on friday morning. Thanks again.
I did bring my water to the store today, they tested ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,nitrate,ph,calcium,phosphates, and iron.
ammonia was 8mg/l
nitrite was ...i believe 4mg/l
nitrate was 20
ph was 8.4
calcium was 480
phosphates and iron were 0
My water change today was 20 gallons....works out to 22%. I usually keep my SG up around 1.025 because i notice the corals seem to open more...even though it's harder on the fish..so today I did the water change with 1.022 water to try and slowly bring the SG to around 1.022 or 1.023 to hopefully ease some stress on the fish. Do you think this would be wise to do in my next change as well? I'll make the next change around 35 gallons..most likely on friday morning. Thanks again.
josh
Active Member
Az,
I agree that the lower salinity will help the fish ( by increasing the O2 avaiilable ), but I really wouldn't worry about that. This fish won't live/die because of a .002 SpG swing.... if you are using a float SpG meter chances are it not that accurate anyways. Good logic though, just wouldn't worry about that now.
I would do the 35 gallon change and then just wait, you don't want to completly turn over you system. Run as much carbon and wait atleast a few days after you do you next change.
Also, one other thing stuck out, your phosphate reading. With all of that HA and bryopis.. I have a hard time believing it is really 0 ??????
Other than that, I am really at a loss... sorry.
I agree that the lower salinity will help the fish ( by increasing the O2 avaiilable ), but I really wouldn't worry about that. This fish won't live/die because of a .002 SpG swing.... if you are using a float SpG meter chances are it not that accurate anyways. Good logic though, just wouldn't worry about that now.
I would do the 35 gallon change and then just wait, you don't want to completly turn over you system. Run as much carbon and wait atleast a few days after you do you next change.
Also, one other thing stuck out, your phosphate reading. With all of that HA and bryopis.. I have a hard time believing it is really 0 ??????
Other than that, I am really at a loss... sorry.
azonic
Active Member
phosphates have never been a problem for me. He tested it today and it was zero. I tested my new saltwater before my change today and it was zero. And I had the water store I buy my RO water from do a range of tests on the freshwater for me today. Everything is coming up fine before it goes in the tank.
The water change today brought the ammonia down slightly....but a couple hours later it was back up again.
I'll test again tomorrow afternoon and post another update.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
The water change today brought the ammonia down slightly....but a couple hours later it was back up again.
I'll test again tomorrow afternoon and post another update.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
sgt__york
Member
Josh, i was thinking the exact same thing. a nice algae bloom and phosphates at 0?? with the spike in amonia AND nitrate - it's definately a cycle tho.
I'm curious tho - as the nitrites spike UP - the amonia usually settles back "DOWN" (it doesn't get to 0 before nitrites go up - BUT they should be at least going down).
The fact u said they are going UP again - leads me to beleive something is STILL dying - producing more load - "OR" you have lost some of your nitrifying bacteria that converts it all.
I'm in somewhat of a different boat - because i beleive in the old school of wet/dry bio balls. The bacteria that converts ammonia/nitrite needs a HIGH oxygen level - and a wet/dry has about a 300% better oxygen/water ratio. It's simply MORE efficient for that purpose. The primary weakness is it's INABILITY to do anything with nitrates. But that's why i still use LR, subrates, and (eventually when needed) a refugium. I beleive in seperate specialized environments. This is an OLD issue tho - and I don't want to let it get turned into that.
MY POINT is this - i'm wondering if you have enough surface area and nitrifying bacteria to handle the bio load. Obviously it's a BAD time to do this - but you might want to think about increasing ur LR to at least 1lb per gal tank size. I'm not a DSB fanatic, so my knowledge is somewhat limited her, but is there any odors in the room? is it possible toxic levels have built up in the substrate and finally been released - causing a dye off cycle??
Not trying to zebra hunt - just pondering.
Even so - that would explain the cycle - but not the hair algae your having. If you have been feeding multiple times a day i would STRONGLY suspect over-feeding for that. I would honestly cut feeding down to no more than 2x per week - and only a PINCH of food at feeding time - let em eat off the rock. I'd take to manually remove as much algae as possible, then put some hermits, tronchis snails and a sally lightfoot crab in to help fight the algae.
FOR NOW - water changes are ur best way to DILUTE the problem. I agree - i'd do closer to 40%. Corals are hurting already - keeping em i that heavier dosed cycling tang isn't going to be any better for em.
You might want to consider getting a 20 gal tank as a temp hospital tank also - see if you can't save as many corals as you can. Just monitor those levels as well.
Wish u the best of luck bud. My tank is going fine right now - but that's part of my worst fear - getting the tank fully stocked of all these corals - have $1000+ of corals in there - and then have some mysterious water problem. Let us know how it goes - at least no one here is trying to sell you something in ur desperate hour. Always good advice and experience here.
I'm curious tho - as the nitrites spike UP - the amonia usually settles back "DOWN" (it doesn't get to 0 before nitrites go up - BUT they should be at least going down).
The fact u said they are going UP again - leads me to beleive something is STILL dying - producing more load - "OR" you have lost some of your nitrifying bacteria that converts it all.
I'm in somewhat of a different boat - because i beleive in the old school of wet/dry bio balls. The bacteria that converts ammonia/nitrite needs a HIGH oxygen level - and a wet/dry has about a 300% better oxygen/water ratio. It's simply MORE efficient for that purpose. The primary weakness is it's INABILITY to do anything with nitrates. But that's why i still use LR, subrates, and (eventually when needed) a refugium. I beleive in seperate specialized environments. This is an OLD issue tho - and I don't want to let it get turned into that.
MY POINT is this - i'm wondering if you have enough surface area and nitrifying bacteria to handle the bio load. Obviously it's a BAD time to do this - but you might want to think about increasing ur LR to at least 1lb per gal tank size. I'm not a DSB fanatic, so my knowledge is somewhat limited her, but is there any odors in the room? is it possible toxic levels have built up in the substrate and finally been released - causing a dye off cycle??
Not trying to zebra hunt - just pondering.
Even so - that would explain the cycle - but not the hair algae your having. If you have been feeding multiple times a day i would STRONGLY suspect over-feeding for that. I would honestly cut feeding down to no more than 2x per week - and only a PINCH of food at feeding time - let em eat off the rock. I'd take to manually remove as much algae as possible, then put some hermits, tronchis snails and a sally lightfoot crab in to help fight the algae.
FOR NOW - water changes are ur best way to DILUTE the problem. I agree - i'd do closer to 40%. Corals are hurting already - keeping em i that heavier dosed cycling tang isn't going to be any better for em.
You might want to consider getting a 20 gal tank as a temp hospital tank also - see if you can't save as many corals as you can. Just monitor those levels as well.
Wish u the best of luck bud. My tank is going fine right now - but that's part of my worst fear - getting the tank fully stocked of all these corals - have $1000+ of corals in there - and then have some mysterious water problem. Let us know how it goes - at least no one here is trying to sell you something in ur desperate hour. Always good advice and experience here.
azonic
Active Member
I appreciate everyone's help who has taken the time to read the extensive length of some of the posts in this thread, however things are getting far worse.
It seems the initial ammonia spike is setting off a chain reacton in the tank....the initial spike caused by what? I don't know is now killing something new every day. Corals are slowly dieing and rotting away thus adding more ammonia to the tank. The level has not dropped below 12mg/l for 2 days now. The fish are breathing very erratically once again and 3 corals plus my maxima clam are looking like they will be going in the garbage tomorrow.
The remainder I will try to salvage by bringing them to my LFS for credit. I hate to give them up after seeing the outstanding growth on them since I purchased them but I'd rather them go to someone else then die.
I'm doing another water change tomorrow after I remove some corals which look like they have no hope...hopefully I can save what's left.
It seems the initial ammonia spike is setting off a chain reacton in the tank....the initial spike caused by what? I don't know is now killing something new every day. Corals are slowly dieing and rotting away thus adding more ammonia to the tank. The level has not dropped below 12mg/l for 2 days now. The fish are breathing very erratically once again and 3 corals plus my maxima clam are looking like they will be going in the garbage tomorrow.
The remainder I will try to salvage by bringing them to my LFS for credit. I hate to give them up after seeing the outstanding growth on them since I purchased them but I'd rather them go to someone else then die.
I'm doing another water change tomorrow after I remove some corals which look like they have no hope...hopefully I can save what's left.
T
thomas712
Guest
How deep and how old is your sandbed?
when you got the rock from the lfs where and how exectly did you place the rock? Do this... smell the tank water does it smell like sulfer or rotten eggs?
Lets see you have an algea problem (that is not Bryopsis) Your ammonia wont stop, corals wilting or dieing, fish highly stressed, water changes are not helping.
Is it me or does anybody else see a DSB crashing here? or maybe the sandbed just got desturbed down to the bottom somewhere?
I know I'm thinking worse case senario here, sorry .
Thomas
when you got the rock from the lfs where and how exectly did you place the rock? Do this... smell the tank water does it smell like sulfer or rotten eggs?
Lets see you have an algea problem (that is not Bryopsis) Your ammonia wont stop, corals wilting or dieing, fish highly stressed, water changes are not helping.
Is it me or does anybody else see a DSB crashing here? or maybe the sandbed just got desturbed down to the bottom somewhere?
I know I'm thinking worse case senario here, sorry
.Thomas
sgt__york
Member
would be nice to get some of the more experienced tankers in on this one - bangguy - sammy - etc...
There might be a much less intense way to handle this - but as you can see - time is against you here. Try to get some of the more experienced reefers to respond. If it were me, i'd likely tear the system down. Not much to lose since it's crashing anyways.
I would...
Get the corals out best u can. You could return them, SOME LFS's will actually HOLD THEM for you; or get a 20gal if you want - and create a hospital tank. Get some cultured bio-balls or LR from ur LFS (on loan/lease) (or some other bio media to help that tank from cycling).
Once your corals and stuff are safe - deal w/the tank itself. I would make sure you reduce lighting down to like 4hrs a day - this will help take the algae out of the equation for a bit.
Stop feeding - no MORE than 2x a week - and only a pinch.
IF your going to tear into the tank - remove the rock - and give each piece a freshwater dip - shake it off real good - to help get any decay off it - and smell it. See if a piece or 2 smells of rotten egg or sulfer. If so - use freshwater to rince it off continuously until the smell is gone.
STir your DSB up real good - and consult some ppl more experienced with DSB's (as i mentioned before - I don't use one). Take note when u stir it up - agian, if you get that rotten smell.
Water changes - NOW (since most inhabitants are out anyways) - do a 50% water change. Let it settle a day or 2. KEEP documenting the paramters (so you can see the affects of what u are dong). Do another 50% water change. Let things settle a few days - and if things are not spiking - re-landscape your LR. Again, watch ur paramets - for a mini-cycle.
I would look at this time at either 1) adding more CYCLED LR; or 2) get a wet/dry bio-ball system going. AGAIN, i don't want to turn this debate into which is better. But even as a backup system - a wet/dry w/bio balls is the most efficient environment for handling the denitrification processs - that is not disputed. This should not stop ur DSB from hanlding nitrates. And as said - 4.5months now w/o even a water change - and my nitrates are reading about 5. I actually had my parametes done at the LFS yesterday to confirm my home readings. You can spend $250 to buy one - or you can spend about $20-$40 and make one.
Once things setle down a bit - begin increasing your lightings - maybe 1/2 additional hr every 3-4 days. Once you get ur lighting back to back up to about 8hrs - check parameters and see if your ready to put your corals back in.
I feel for you - and realize tearing your system down is not what i'd want to do. But if it continues to crash - and the origin is unknown and causing you to lose your entire tank - what else can you do??
Again - try to get some advice from the more experienced reefers quick. Best of luck to you - and let us know how things turn out.
There might be a much less intense way to handle this - but as you can see - time is against you here. Try to get some of the more experienced reefers to respond. If it were me, i'd likely tear the system down. Not much to lose since it's crashing anyways.
I would...
Get the corals out best u can. You could return them, SOME LFS's will actually HOLD THEM for you; or get a 20gal if you want - and create a hospital tank. Get some cultured bio-balls or LR from ur LFS (on loan/lease) (or some other bio media to help that tank from cycling).
Once your corals and stuff are safe - deal w/the tank itself. I would make sure you reduce lighting down to like 4hrs a day - this will help take the algae out of the equation for a bit.
Stop feeding - no MORE than 2x a week - and only a pinch.
IF your going to tear into the tank - remove the rock - and give each piece a freshwater dip - shake it off real good - to help get any decay off it - and smell it. See if a piece or 2 smells of rotten egg or sulfer. If so - use freshwater to rince it off continuously until the smell is gone.
STir your DSB up real good - and consult some ppl more experienced with DSB's (as i mentioned before - I don't use one). Take note when u stir it up - agian, if you get that rotten smell.
Water changes - NOW (since most inhabitants are out anyways) - do a 50% water change. Let it settle a day or 2. KEEP documenting the paramters (so you can see the affects of what u are dong). Do another 50% water change. Let things settle a few days - and if things are not spiking - re-landscape your LR. Again, watch ur paramets - for a mini-cycle.
I would look at this time at either 1) adding more CYCLED LR; or 2) get a wet/dry bio-ball system going. AGAIN, i don't want to turn this debate into which is better. But even as a backup system - a wet/dry w/bio balls is the most efficient environment for handling the denitrification processs - that is not disputed. This should not stop ur DSB from hanlding nitrates. And as said - 4.5months now w/o even a water change - and my nitrates are reading about 5. I actually had my parametes done at the LFS yesterday to confirm my home readings. You can spend $250 to buy one - or you can spend about $20-$40 and make one.
Once things setle down a bit - begin increasing your lightings - maybe 1/2 additional hr every 3-4 days. Once you get ur lighting back to back up to about 8hrs - check parameters and see if your ready to put your corals back in.
I feel for you - and realize tearing your system down is not what i'd want to do. But if it continues to crash - and the origin is unknown and causing you to lose your entire tank - what else can you do??
Again - try to get some advice from the more experienced reefers quick. Best of luck to you - and let us know how things turn out.
arkman
Member
bump...im interested in hearing a reply from a DSB supporter...any takers?
I think "the sarge" has good ideas --- except I wouldn't FW dip the rock, and I'd mix, rather than "stir" the DSB just to release whatever is trapped --- then siphon most of that right out of the tank.
Azoniic - I hope its better than it looked - hopefully we can learn from this - sorry
I think "the sarge" has good ideas --- except I wouldn't FW dip the rock, and I'd mix, rather than "stir" the DSB just to release whatever is trapped --- then siphon most of that right out of the tank.
Azoniic - I hope its better than it looked - hopefully we can learn from this - sorry
azonic
Active Member
Thanks for the advice york. I'm leaning towards tearing the tank down. If I tore it down I would switch from reef to FOWLR, and most likely upgrade to a 125 or 150 gallon. I would definately use a wet/dry on it because 70 pounds of rock wouldn't cut it for that size tank on it's own. I haven't decided for sure yet either way. I'm going to get my LFS to hold my corals for me for a while until I decide.
I can't do anything else until after chrsitmas, I simply can't afford to buy a couple hundred gallons worth of salt mix to do a completely overhaul on the tank.....until after christmas.
I'm gonna try to get my corals to the store on saturday...and hopefully see about putting my fish in a few of his 10 gallon quarantine's in his back room.
And yes, you moderators and other very knowledgable fellow reefers....care to give your $.02 input on it? Your opinion's or suggestions would be greatly appreciated on top of what I've already recieved.
Once again, thanks everyone for the suggestions, and obvious concern.
I can't do anything else until after chrsitmas, I simply can't afford to buy a couple hundred gallons worth of salt mix to do a completely overhaul on the tank.....until after christmas.
I'm gonna try to get my corals to the store on saturday...and hopefully see about putting my fish in a few of his 10 gallon quarantine's in his back room.
And yes, you moderators and other very knowledgable fellow reefers....care to give your $.02 input on it? Your opinion's or suggestions would be greatly appreciated on top of what I've already recieved.
Once again, thanks everyone for the suggestions, and obvious concern.
josh
Active Member
Az,
Well I don't think it's the DSB. I honestly have never heard of a DSB crashing a tank, just dosen't happen on it's own. If you plan to stir up the DSB you are effecticly killing it which would only make things A LOT worse. Once the anoxic regions are exposed to oxygen they die. The anoxic zones are what makes the dsb tick, or rather the bacteria that live in that area.
The only other thing that hasn't been discussed is a parasite or bacterial infection. The only thing I could think is that the new rock carried a disease or bacterial strain that is taking it's toll on the tank. If I were you, I would go ahead a break down the tank. It's really the only way to make sure whatever it is ...is out. Start with a fresh DSB and definatly dip the rock to rid it of anything that would make a return to the tank to start the whole thing over again.
Sorry about your losses.....
Well I don't think it's the DSB. I honestly have never heard of a DSB crashing a tank, just dosen't happen on it's own. If you plan to stir up the DSB you are effecticly killing it which would only make things A LOT worse. Once the anoxic regions are exposed to oxygen they die. The anoxic zones are what makes the dsb tick, or rather the bacteria that live in that area.
The only other thing that hasn't been discussed is a parasite or bacterial infection. The only thing I could think is that the new rock carried a disease or bacterial strain that is taking it's toll on the tank. If I were you, I would go ahead a break down the tank. It's really the only way to make sure whatever it is ...is out. Start with a fresh DSB and definatly dip the rock to rid it of anything that would make a return to the tank to start the whole thing over again.
Sorry about your losses.....
mako
Member
guys
I had a deep sand bed in a 55 gal 4" that carashed a deep sand bed with no plenum will harbor nitrate pockets hydrogen sulfate pockets and phosphates and the smaller the granules of sand the worse this was the biggest mistakes i have ever made in keeping a reef sys my phos and trates were through the roof i ended up breaking the tank down and replaceing the substate to just 1" but so much bad stuff leached into my rock that i still could not controll the system I have the feeling that the same is happening here hydrogen sulphite will kill enough of your beneficial bacterea to cause an amonia spike
also what are you cleaning you glass with
I had a deep sand bed in a 55 gal 4" that carashed a deep sand bed with no plenum will harbor nitrate pockets hydrogen sulfate pockets and phosphates and the smaller the granules of sand the worse this was the biggest mistakes i have ever made in keeping a reef sys my phos and trates were through the roof i ended up breaking the tank down and replaceing the substate to just 1" but so much bad stuff leached into my rock that i still could not controll the system I have the feeling that the same is happening here hydrogen sulphite will kill enough of your beneficial bacterea to cause an amonia spike
also what are you cleaning you glass with
josh
Active Member
Mako,
I am sorry that your tank crashed, but a functioning dsb should have no problems converting the nitrates over to NO2 gas which escapes the tank. Once again, with a dsb that is not functioning correctly you do have the potential to build up hydrogen disulfide ( H2S ) which is indeed leathel to critters and to us in any concentration ( 50 ppm is a leathal dose for humans ). Our HS2 monitors at work begin to alarm at 10ppm so you get some idea of how nasty this stuff is. However, critter movement in the sand bed should and will release these gas pockets as well as the converted NO2 pockets out of the tank, that's the whole point.
I should qualify my earlier statement. A fully functioning dsb will not crash the tank, however there is a possibility that one that has no movement or does not properly de nitrify the tank will indeed be like a ticking time bomb.
AZ- is the top of your sand bed hard? This would also lead to the build up of gas and nitrates that would overwhelm the critters leading it to crash.
I am sorry that your tank crashed, but a functioning dsb should have no problems converting the nitrates over to NO2 gas which escapes the tank. Once again, with a dsb that is not functioning correctly you do have the potential to build up hydrogen disulfide ( H2S ) which is indeed leathel to critters and to us in any concentration ( 50 ppm is a leathal dose for humans ). Our HS2 monitors at work begin to alarm at 10ppm so you get some idea of how nasty this stuff is. However, critter movement in the sand bed should and will release these gas pockets as well as the converted NO2 pockets out of the tank, that's the whole point.
I should qualify my earlier statement. A fully functioning dsb will not crash the tank, however there is a possibility that one that has no movement or does not properly de nitrify the tank will indeed be like a ticking time bomb.
AZ- is the top of your sand bed hard? This would also lead to the build up of gas and nitrates that would overwhelm the critters leading it to crash.
azonic
Active Member
josh: I don't know of the surface of my sand bed is hard or not...just got off a 10 hours shift, I'll check in the morning.
All this talk about disturbing the sand bed made me remember something....maybe the potential cause of my grief...A few days to a week before this all happened I had a new maxi-jet 1200 on my tank with suction cups...long story short, the suction cup slipped off while I was out....ended up being aimed at the sandbed from about 2 inches about it...so the MJ1200 was blasting the sand bed for about an hour....pretty much cleared a gap 4 inches to the very bottom...clouded the whole tank.....could this be it?
All this talk about disturbing the sand bed made me remember something....maybe the potential cause of my grief...A few days to a week before this all happened I had a new maxi-jet 1200 on my tank with suction cups...long story short, the suction cup slipped off while I was out....ended up being aimed at the sandbed from about 2 inches about it...so the MJ1200 was blasting the sand bed for about an hour....pretty much cleared a gap 4 inches to the very bottom...clouded the whole tank.....could this be it?
T
thomas712
Guest
I think you found the cause of your problem. The powerhead disturbed the sand bed. This released the nutrients in the sandbed and caused your algea bloom. this also released the anerobic bacteria into the system,which dies when it becomes oxigenated, together with the nutrients your ammonia went on the rise and the crash started.
To put it simply your septic tank blew up!
Thomas
To put it simply your septic tank blew up!
Thomas
azonic
Active Member
Thanks for the input thomas...anyone else have any opinions?
Also I got my first bit of "good" news today. I have found temporary housing for all of my fish. It seems my LFS owner is in a bind...his two BIG saltwater orders from christmas got bumped off their flights so he doesn't/won't have much stock for all of christmas....I told him I wanted to keep my yellow tang, porky puffer, and my pair of GS maroons. I said if he could hold them until I tear down the tank and start it over again then I would give him my 4 other fish as "payment". He agreed(duh) so I'm bringing them in on monday. I'm giving him a mandarin, LMB, sixline, and a clarkii. No big loss to me because I'm thinking of making it into an aggresive tank anyway. He's also going to take my remaining coral on store credit.
He agreed that what happened with the sand bed most likely caused the spike.... .
Also I got my first bit of "good" news today. I have found temporary housing for all of my fish. It seems my LFS owner is in a bind...his two BIG saltwater orders from christmas got bumped off their flights so he doesn't/won't have much stock for all of christmas....I told him I wanted to keep my yellow tang, porky puffer, and my pair of GS maroons. I said if he could hold them until I tear down the tank and start it over again then I would give him my 4 other fish as "payment". He agreed(duh) so I'm bringing them in on monday. I'm giving him a mandarin, LMB, sixline, and a clarkii. No big loss to me because I'm thinking of making it into an aggresive tank anyway. He's also going to take my remaining coral on store credit.
He agreed that what happened with the sand bed most likely caused the spike.... .