my tank is up but the cycle wil not start

[jesatfis]

ok first filters
1 aqua clear 901 powerhead
1 aqua clear 300 filter (temp to be replaced in a little bit with a emporer 400)
1 magnum 350 (has to be returned for nother cuz it is not working right
50-60 lbs live sand
8-12 lbs live rock
fish
2 green chromi (breathing a little rapid but other than that i think there ok)
1 yellow taild blue damsel (good but a little harrased by another)
2 neon blue damsels (good 1 made a burrow under some rock and defends it any fish that comes near will have a hole in them
1 3 stripe damsel (died this morning)
anyway i dont care much if 1 or 2 more die
but ive added cycle and some other suplements and not i am not sure if my cycle started or if it will because i used abought 15 gal live watter and 25 lbs live sand and at least 3/4 of the live rock was curing for a month
i added
pro buffer
essetial ellements
amonia detox
cycle
aqua plus
thats all i all i did so far but do i need to add more fish to cycle or just wait i have no trate trite or ammo reading ph is 8.3
is it posible i may have skipped the cylcle or did it not
start yetas this is day 2

 

[lefty]

...
You don't care if they die? This hobby is all about the livestock. They should be what you care about the most. Cycling your tank with fish is, in my opinion, extremely inhumane. The fluctuating levels are very toxic to the fish. It forces them to breathe in the equivalent of acid. There are other methods to cycle a tank that are just as effective and also cheaper. Throwing in a raw cocktail shrimp or two would be one of those methods.
The reason your tank isn't cycling is because of all those chemicals you're adding. They aren't allowing the cycle to take place because you've got chemicals doing what bacteria should be doing.
-lefty

 

[ssg_mm]

WOW
You put 18 fish into a tank the same day you set it up? Damsel are good to progress a cycle but after ammo has spiked and starts to break down. They don't create enough bio load fast enough to kick the cycle in gear IMO.
Are you cycling the 90? You don't have near enough LR or LS for that tank. I've got 80lbs (approx 2.5" deep) LS and approx 45lbs LR in my 65. I know LR/LS are expensive but they aide greatly to set up and stability of your tank. It took about 2 weeks for my tank to cycle (I added 2 striped damsels after nitrite spiked).
Without die off from the LR/LS, you need something to spike ammo. Try a raw shrimp. Let it sit in the tank and decay a bit or you could leave one of those dead damsels.
If nothing else, read the 2 post-its above this thread.
Good luck.

 

[bdhough]

Ill second all those chems. Stop adding them. Did someone on this board tell you to do this? You should not be adding any chems to a new tank for at least a month the exception being a cycle helper such as biozyme which is just beneficial bacteria for a salt tank and helps the cycle along.
BTW to SSG_MM thats ONE 3 strip damsel not 13
DO NOT add more fish to your tank
DO add more live rock BEFORE you add fish. I would suggest taking your fish back and just buying 40-100 more lbs of live rock. I realize that can be expensive but you need to put that in place before the fish or you will kill them with uncured rock you may add later. Adding that much rock alone will cycle your tank then you can add fish one or two at a time once a week. The only exception to that rule is if you want a school of green chromis.....
FINALLY you may never see a cycle. It is very possible to set up a tank and never see one. If you do it right. I've set up 3 salt tanks now and have never seen a cycle.

 

[ophiura]

Who is selling you all this stuff? Why do you have buffer? Why are you adding essential elements? Don't add any more buffer, for sure, unless you test alkalinity.
And if you added ammonia detox - well, that certainly defeats the purpose entirely. You NEED ammonia, but you've added something that basically neutralizes it.
All I can say is that this tank is not off to a good start. :nope:

 

[acekjd83]

for a new tank, you should have basically NOTHING for at least a month... just sand and rock. I know this is boring and everyone wants to have fish and corals and a happy ecosystem within a week, BUT THIS ISNT POSSIBLE!
the purpose for this is to establish the DIFFERENT bacterial species necessary for a healthy nitrogen cycle. Ophiura is right on... do NOT add chemicals to help cycle your tank! not even biozyme. there are LOTS of bacteria in your LS and LR... thats why you paid seven dollars a pound for it! they need to come into equilibrium, however, since a new tank will have very different nutrient levels than the oceans and display tanks at the store. The initial ammonia levels are necessary for NITROSOBACTER, the bacteria that converts ammonia (NH3) to nitrite (NO2). this will, in turn, cause a nitrite spike, as they consume ammonia and convert it to nitrite. NITROBACTER will then respond to the nitrite spike by converting NO2 to NO3, nitrate. nitrates are much less toxic than ammonia and nitrite, and are absorbed by plants and algae. IMO, it isnt really necessary to add anything to a new tank while it cycles, other than time and patience. Even a protein skimmer should be left out, since this will remove all nitrogenous wastes and actually slow the process...

 

[jesatfis]

Originally posted by lefty
...
You don't care if they die? This hobby is all about the livestock. They should be what you care about the most. Cycling your tank with fish is, in my opinion, extremely inhumane. The fluctuating levels are very toxic to the fish. It forces them to breathe in the equivalent of acid. There are other methods to cycle a tank that are just as effective and also cheaper. Throwing in a raw cocktail shrimp or two would be one of those methods.
The reason your tank isn't cycling is because of all those chemicals you're adding. They aren't allowing the cycle to take place because you've got chemicals doing what bacteria should be doing.
-lefty
no i dont mean i dont care if i die but i mean that the damsels are not a worry if they do die or fight as i am takeing them out after a bit, i do care if they die but if they do it is not a extreme worry (just sadness on my part)

 

[jesatfis]

Originally posted by bdhough
Ill second all those chems. Stop adding them. Did someone on this board tell you to do this? You should not be adding any chems to a new tank for at least a month the exception being a cycle helper such as biozyme which is just beneficial bacteria for a salt tank and helps the cycle along.
BTW to SSG_MM thats ONE 3 strip damsel not 13
DO NOT add more fish to your tank
DO add more live rock BEFORE you add fish. I would suggest taking your fish back and just buying 40-100 more lbs of live rock. I realize that can be expensive but you need to put that in place before the fish or you will kill them with uncured rock you may add later. Adding that much rock alone will cycle your tank then you can add fish one or two at a time once a week. The only exception to that rule is if you want a school of green chromis.....
FINALLY you may never see a cycle. It is very possible to set up a tank and never see one. If you do it right. I've set up 3 salt tanks now and have never seen a cycle.
ok on the chems i thoungt that the cycle chem is bactieria and i have the bio max cartrige on the aqua clear
also the aqua + just removes clhorine so that probarly will not efect it
the buffer i am not sure abought
the ammo detox i will not add more and the essential i cant see it effecting but i will stop that as well
now by now i know i should of seen a really slight ajustment but for a bit it hasent even done anything but i will be taking back the 2 blue damsels cuz they killed the 2 chromis, i understand that it is kind of crue to do that to damsels.
now i have said this before but i have heard that throwing a grouper in to cycle is not a bad idea as they are really hardy and produce alot of amonia
i am adding alot m,ore live ropck next week abought 25-50 lbs

 

[bdhough]

Cool. Just wait for the rock. I wouldn't waste any more money on live stock. It will just end up dying and youll wish you never spent the money. Be patient with the initail setup. It takes time. Youll have fish soon enough.
Back to the chems. The cycle helper is fine whatever it was called. Adding to many essential elements to your tank will screw up the ratio of the elements to the point it becomes toxic to anything placed in the tank such as the iodine in the stuff. Besides you don't have anything in your tank that can make substantial use of the stuff. Best to save it for when you get corals.
The rest of your chems there is really no reason to use them. THe ammonia stuff can be used in an emergency if you run into problems later with your tank. The aqua + doesn't effect anything except tap water. Are you using tap water? If you are the aqua+ should be added to the tap water prior to mixing salt into said water or before you add the water for top off to your tank. Once your tank is cycled, look into using RO water if you are using tap. You will save yourself a huge headache later in the life of your tank.

 

[bdhough]

One more thing. While you are waiting go find a good book about saltwater tanks and start reading

 

[ophiura]

Originally posted by jesatfis
now i have said this before but i have heard that throwing a grouper in to cycle is not a bad idea as they are really hardy and produce alot of amonia

DEAD SHRIMP or EXCESS FOOD is far more humane and produces far more ammonia. Your issue is most likely that you have added something like ammonia detox which totally messed everything up...not to mention any other ammonia absorbing stuff that may be in there. It is hard to say WHAT is going on now, but throwing in a grouper will not help things at all.
I agree on getting a good book.
Buffer also could have totally messed things up so I highly recommend getting an alkalinity and pH reading at a minimum.
Essential elements is a waste of money at this time - and also, if I am not mistaken, contains Calcium which if again not monitored can cause issues with pH and alkalinity...not to mention it also contains iodine...in general it is added once corals and inverts are added, and only sparingly then as well.

 

[jesatfis]

Originally posted by ophiura
DEAD SHRIMP or EXCESS FOOD is far more humane and produces far more ammonia. Your issue is most likely that you have added something like ammonia detox which totally messed everything up...not to mention any other ammonia absorbing stuff that may be in there. It is hard to say WHAT is going on now, but throwing in a grouper will not help things at all.
I agree on getting a good book.
Buffer also could have totally messed things up so I highly recommend getting an alkalinity and pH reading at a minimum.
Essential elements is a waste of money at this time - and also, if I am not mistaken, contains Calcium which if again not monitored can cause issues with pH and alkalinity...not to mention it also contains iodine...in general it is added once corals and inverts are added, and only sparingly then as well.
ok readings are as follows
ammonia 0
trites 0
trates 0
ph 8.2-8.4
specific gravity and salinity i will have to explain
i have the instant ocean hydrometer the readings are close to the middle of the read but a little more twords the higher end
thats it i will try to say itbetter in the morn night

 

[tizzo]

Hi Jesatfis...
Couldn't help but notice your occupation. Lemme point out that, what you read here and what you will learn at work will probably be contradicting to say the least.
I will explain this, but I will first admit that I am biased to the boards...
Both "circles" of people, LFS workers and board members, pretty much revolve around the same people who know what they know, and new members are taught what they believe, however... A LFS relies on tradition. Who are you to say that the guy training you is wrong, etc etc. When something new, improved or not, comes up there is always gonna be somebody to test the product/theory/method. In a LFS you have to believe what you are told cause they know best.
I won't even touch upon the greedy money part of it, but all in all, these members are accurate.
Do not cycle with fish.
Care more about your pets.
Do not add chemicals or other additives.
Always research, and understand what you are doing with and to your tank.
Get a hydrometer.
Return the fish.
We still don't know if your tank has cycled.
And sincerely, Good luck!
:yes:

 

[jesatfis]

Originally posted by Tizzo
Hi Jesatfis...
Couldn't help but notice your occupation. Lemme point out that, what you read here and what you will learn at work will probably be contradicting to say the least.
I will explain this, but I will first admit that I am biased to the boards...
Both "circles" of people, LFS workers and board members, pretty much revolve around the same people who know what they know, and new members are taught what they believe, however... A LFS relies on tradition. Who are you to say that the guy training you is wrong, etc etc. When something new, improved or not, comes up there is always gonna be somebody to test the product/theory/method. In a LFS you have to believe what you are told cause they know best.
I won't even touch upon the greedy money part of it, but all in all, these members are accurate.
Do not cycle with fish.
Care more about your pets.
Do not add chemicals or other additives.
Always research, and understand what you are doing with and to your tank.
Get a hydrometer.
Return the fish.
We still don't know if your tank has cycled.
And sincerely, Good luck!
:yes:
all good and all but my store dose not cary salt watter

 

[jesatfis]

cycle started amonia is at 2.?
i hate these pop ups
the hydrometer i have is the instant ocean one
the readings are right in the middle of the red zone witch is good
i havent got a chance to check trates and trites
i have the light on a timer this is how it will be
7am on 12pm off 5pm on 10pm off till 7 am
ph has remained the same
amonia is at 2. something
nitrites and trates i will test latter on all of them to post on the board
ok levels i will check latter tonight
trites trates ammonia ph calcium and salinity and specific grav