My thoughts on our ports! Been thinking about this for 2 days.

[darth tang]

When I first heard we were going to allow a United Arab Emirites company Manage some of our ports my immediate reaction was I was dumb founded. I couldn't believe it. My first thought was "DUH! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!"
Now I am having mixed thoughts regarding this. Which usually means I am not ultimately going to agree with the idea.
OK, here it goes. The ports will be managed by this arab company. This doesn't sound so bad actually since they will have no involvement with security and will not own the ports either. Then I remembered the mafia never actually owned any casinos in Vegas, just managed them and think of all the criminal activity that occurred through that.
But on the other hand to out right deny the company borders on racism and doesn't give the company the benefit of the doubt. We can not racially profile in our country for security purposes so should we then racial profile from a business standpoint in this case and reject them? That would go against what many stand for. Even though I disagree with them managing our ports.
But then I had another thought occur to me. This company will manage I believe 6 ports of entry in our country. So, in all likelihood these six ports would stick out as a terrorist entry point correct? So in turn, maybe we will watch these ports closer than the others, setting up a ports for terrorists stings. I mean, think about. which ports will be more likely to have a terrorist try to gain entry through now? Reverse psychology? Possibly allowing the terrorists to think we are more vulnerable through tyhese ports as the may have easier access to them, when in fact, due to the company involved we are actually watching them closer than the others, sort of like a sting operatiojn.
I still don't like this idea........but to myself, it is no sillier than saying we can not monitor international calls to or from known operatives outside of the U.S.

 

[moneyman]

I dont know what to say ... I'll add fruit for thoughts with similarity ...
Checkpoint Systems is the #1 firewall system by our government and corporations. It is coded in Israel. Imagine that, all traffic going to a US department/corporation having to be parsed, passed, denied, logged by this firewall.

 

[dogstar]

Ahh, dont worry about it, just trust them.

 

[socal57che]

Do ya think it has anything to do with that multi-million dollar spaceport a U.S. company plans to build in the U.A.E.??

 

[lovethesea]

So I wonder what their opinion/thoughts will be on all of those unchecked containers?
I think those always have been and always will be more of a security issue. Even though this new situation has caused me to wonder what the heck we are thinking. :scared:

 

[darth tang]

Something else to throw in the pot. UAE also gave us 100 million dollars for Katrina. Four times more than the next country.

 

[farmboy]

We will still run the security, right? The ports are subject to our laws, right? Most likely, the same folks will WORK there, right?
If it wasn't a problem with a British company, then why is it now?

 

[darth tang]

Also would like to add, this country (UAE) arrested and turned over to us the mastermind of the U.S.S. Cole bombing.

 

[farmboy]

I say let the deal go through, then use Eminent Domain to reclaim the ports !!!

 

[forestgump]

I would like to add here that in this port deal our administration does not require this company to keep any business records on U.S. soil where they could be subpeonaed by U.S. courts.
Also, I'm not sure that this would fall into the realm of racial profiling. This isn't about all people of middle eastern decent. This is a company owned by the government of a country that...
did business with Sadam
had two of the 9/11 hijackers originate from there
was one of only a few countries in the world to recognize the taliban as a proper government
has been very well documented that it was used as a terrorist travel and financial hub
was named as a point of shipment for illegal nuclear components sold by Pakistan's nuclear scientist, Dr. Khan. Two Dubai companies were apparently involved.
and our own State Department says Americans in UAE "should exercise a high level of security awareness."
It doesn't sound to me like a very reliable friend in the war on terror or a trustworthy business partner.

 

[mudplayerx]

I agree with Neil Cavuto on Fox News. Why are the ports not being run by American companies? Why is something so important like the security of America's ports (where dirty bombs could be smuggled into the country) up for grabs as if they were a position like fry cook at McDonald's?
The ports should be strictly available for American companies to run only... just like nuclear power plants and dams.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
Why are the ports not being run by American companies?

Was it bid for.
Could it be that American labor unions ran the bid too high for US companies to compete?
I don't know how this came about, but I thought it was the purchase of a company by one in the UAE and they were taking over operations of the qcquired company. I'll have to read some more.

 

[mudplayerx]

I may be speaking out of ignorance of the whole port management industry as a whole, but shouldn't ports be run by the government?

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
I may be speaking out of ignorance of the whole port management industry as a whole, but shouldn't ports be run by the government?
Sure, a foreign government even.
It may be a none issue but didnt they think the People might say WHAT !!!
Maybe they should let Wal-Mart run them, haha, everythings for them anyway.

 

[forestgump]

Originally Posted by socal57che
Could it be that American labor unions ran the bid too high for US companies to compete?
The quick response would be......no.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by forestgump
The quick response would be......no.
Would the intelligent response be the same??
I'm not saying that unions as a whole are bad, but there are cases where they do more harm than good. Maybe it had nothing to do with it.

 

[forestgump]

Originally Posted by socal57che
Would the intelligent response be the same??
I'm not saying that unions as a whole are bad, but there are cases where they do more harm than good. Maybe it had nothing to do with it.
Trust me the intelligent answer would be the same, but much longer. Of course labor unions aren't all bad, but not perfect either. Of course they had nothing to do with it. They have, however, done way more good for our country in terms of workplace rights, health and safety issues, child labor laws, etc. etc. They've provided benefits and won precedents in the courts that benefit all working Americans, not just union members.
The intelligent answer, the one that doesn't conform with the current political and business world rhetoric, would address the foreign policy and trade issues that allow an atmosphere which makes it harder for our companies to compete. If you've been reading the papers you should have noticed that it's certainly not just union organized companies who are struggling, claiming bankruptcy and moving over seas. It does have to do with the increasing demands for cheaper and cheaper manufacturing methods, which includes substandard wages and benefits, unsafe work environments, and disregard for environmental protections. The intelligent answer would address the issue that the rhetoric in America is causing increased complacency with the idea that in order to compete we have to lower our standard of living across the board to be closer to that of a third world country. It would take note of the fact that something must be awry when corporations are actually moving factories from Mexico to china for cheaper labor. Anyone who thinks this trend doesn't affect all Americans (except for the very top few percent of the insanely wealthy) is just naive. Maybe an intelligent response would look into Japans economy, which has vastly different trade policies, whose local corporations are booming, and has it's workers living at a significantly higher standard of living than those in the U.S. and also enjoy a significantly higher rate of pay. We live in a country that actually places a certain importance in human and environmental standards and claims to attempt to improve living conditions across the board, as is evidenced with the slew of legislation regarding these issues. How is it that we allow an insane amount of goods to be imported into our country with complete disregard to any of these production standards, financially supporting production standards that are very very unethical, allowing an environment where we can barely compete to sell ourselves products. The only answer "seems" to be to dumb down our standards to match. This is simply the wrong angle to approach the issue with, however much of the blame is with too many Americans buying into the easy ( and by the way short-sighted, unintelligent and easy to grasp) rhetoric that it's simply the greedy workers that are causing the corporate woes. Even cutting our standard of living in half, and eliminating all environmental protections would not solve the competitive problem. There will always be countries who have absolutely no concern for these standards, who will be more than happy to exploit this issue as long as the U.S. government allows it to happen, and as long as the American people remain blind to the real cause of the problems.
Of course this isn't the topic of the thread, but the suggestion that an opinion is unintelligent simply because you don't agree with it, I feel justifies a bit of a response.

 

[darth tang]

The company in charge of the port makes the manifest. The manifest is what determines what is stored where on a ship and what is subject to a search.
I could list books on the manifest for a crate. Have it stored near the engine (as books aren't dangerous) and have the books really be c-4. Then have them blown up while in transient, and destroy the ship. The crate would never be searched as books don't put up a red flag.
I am mixed still on this. Reality tells me that no matter WHO runs the ports we are still only able to search less than 2% of all cargo coming in. The fear is that a terrorist will be working for this Dubai company and cause havoc. But in reality this can happen anywhere. We had ALL the hijackers on 9/11 in the U.S. already. So my question is, does this really pose MORE of a threat?

 

[cowfishrule]

i import goods through the ports, and have many friends around them.
nothing would change, as in port security is aka US CUSTOMS.
all that would change is a paperwork flow.
no us companies bid on the contract, that is why dubai, who also owns P&O Nedlloyd, won the contract. Dubai at one point was under British control, if im correct.
While i dont think that there is any risk to having DUbai managing the port, i think it does send a bad message to our allies that are sending troops and $$$ to fight the war on terror.
also, approximatly 4-5% of the containers entering our ports can be checked. the reason this is so low is that there is so much coming in that it would literally stop commerce if everything had to be checked. example- year 2005 the quota's were lifted off certain categories of textiles- more goods came in during the first quarter of '05 than during all of year 2004.
the us government is trying to ease this by setting up a system with suppliers overseas that "pre-clears" containers before they get on board. this is very expensive, and requires the entire chain ( from raw materials supplier to manufacturer to wholesaler here in us) to have strict security (fences, security cards, video survalilence, etc). it is quite difficult to get all parites involved to follow this.

 

[cowfishrule]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
The company in charge of the port makes the manifest. The manifest is what determines what is stored where on a ship and what is subject to a search.
um, no. the broker manifests the goods, not the company in charge, and no, there is no way to pick your spot on the boat. full containers are loaded first, then topped off with lcl (consolidated) containers.
it also depends on what size you have. you could have a 20', 40' 40hc, 45', etc.
that is why bookings are done around 14 days before etd.