Mysterious illnesses...yes plural

[kdlbem]

We have a 75gal FO tank set up mid-February.
Before I say anything else....YES this is all MY FAULT, I know...I didn't quarentine in the beginning and have had problems ever since.(I found this board too late! I had already listened to LFS)
Until about a week ago the tank contained Powder blue tang 4-5inches, tank raised percula clown, royal dottyback, juv. majestic angel 3-4inches, Flame angel 3-4 inches, Lawnmower blenny 4inches.
We had an ich outbreak after adding the Flame Angel. We treated first with rid-ich, then with copper. OK here comes the next mistake....while treating with copper LFS suggested(in a way only they can do) that we finish stocking the tank while the copper was in there, thus avoiding another ich outbreak. We added the powder blue tang.
We thought the problem was taken care of with the copper so we removed the copper and later bought a majestic angel.
The tang got spots again. The Flame followed soon after. We lowered the salinity to 1.009 and it's been there for 3 weeks Saturday. The Flame improved for a couple weeks. The tang still has spots. We've determined it can't be ich(the salinity has been too low for too long right?). We moved the tang into a hospital tank.(used 15 gals from main tank to set it up and mixed 5 gals of 1.009 water to finish filling it.)
We thought everything was under control, the tang was in a hospital tank being treated with maroxy and both maracyns. The show tank was still at 1.009 and everyone looked fine.
We got up one morning to find the blenny looking really bad. The last inch of his tail was pink and he was breathing really heavily. We decided to watch him for a few hours, which was all it took for him to die. He crawled into a hole in the rockwork and it took hours to get his body out. We still have no idea what happened to him. It looked like something ate the back half of him off, but no one ever picked on him(the tang was the bully of the tank but he'd already been moved to the hospital tank). It was almost like some kind of flesh eating bacteria.
The next morning, the Flame's mouth was swollen and grey. We put him in the hospital tank with the tang and he was dead the next morning. The area behind his pectoral fins was swollen. We are unsure of what got him.
The show tank now has only the majestic, percula and dottyback, who all seem fine, so far. All levels are fine. Salinity 1.009, Nitrates 30ppm, Nitrites 0, Ammo 0, Temp 78. PH 8.3. Hospital tank is a 20gal with a whisper 60 an extra powerhead and requires daily 5gal water changes to keep the ammo in check. We are trying to keep the conditions in the hospital tank as close to that of the main tank as possible.
The tang is still sick, has white bumps and open sores isolated to an area just behind his eye on one side. When it was sick before it was the same side, but in front of the eye. He is still active and eats well. He occasionally scratches. He is being treated with Maroxy and both Maracyns at half dose. We are starting to think it's lymphocystis but aren't sure.
We are getting really frustrated and are loosing some expensive fish. LFS said to rip the tank down and start over. We really don't want to have to do that. What's going on with this tank? Should I rip it apart, or start raising the salinity this weekend, or leave it alone? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry it's such a long post, but it's been a long week.
Thanks!

 

[tangs_in_pacifica]

I'm not sure about the grey mouth and fin problems, but garlic works for parasites. I've tried all of the hyposalinity, reef-safe miracle cure, quarantine copper tank crap, and it all just seemed to stress out my fish and inverts. Try soaking the food your fish eat with garlic.
Just an opinion

 

[kdlbem]

Trey- Actually we read it on here. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was Beth(don't get mad if it wasn't, but we did read up on ALL of this stuff before we did any of it, we spend HOURS on here everyday reading everything we can find...mostly on this site.) who said that if you are using both to use a half dose of each. Why exactly did we blow it with the Maracyn, it's only on day four. We did the copper in the main tank first and when we moved the tang into the hospital tank we started the Maracyns.
Since garlic is pretty much the only thing we haven't tried we'll start that this weekend.
They already eat medicated flake and seaweed selects soaked in zoe(we soak all their food in Zoe).
We dump old water in one spot next to our house, so it doesn't get into the sewers, just our soil.
The Flame was the most mellow of the fish and I NEVER saw him chase or bother the blenny at all, besides, the blenny was small enough to get into places the rest of the fish (except the dottyback) could never get.
So is this ich, or some kind of supernatural bacteria??? We've researched all kind of diseases and it sounds like they're all dying from different ones, they've all had different symptoms.
How quickly should we raise the salinity in the tanks? We took about a five days to lower it, should we do the same to bring it up?
Thanks for your help!

 

[kdlbem]

Cool, thanks for the info. Now at least I know I'm back on the right track. Going to start raising the salinity this weekend on both tanks, and will go find some sort of garlic tomorrow morning. I guess it's probably not lymphocystis. Seems hard to find accurate, extensive disease info and pics, went to the local library, and the books were 20 to 30 years old. No help there. Thanks again. We'll keep you posted.
There is ONE bonus to all of this. LFS owner said he thought it would kill the fish to drop the salinity to 1.009. Well it's been three weeks, and there's still fish. Guess I showed him. LOL

 

[jimi]

How are you measuring your salinity? If your not using a refractometer you are probably not where you should be.

 

[kdlbem]

Hey Jimi. We've been using two different sized floating glass hydrometers. The swing arm type I usually use started giving false readings at i.015(I checked all three as I dropped the salinity)The two glass ones have stayed constant. I know they arent the best, but I've kept a constant eye on them, so I'm pretty sure they are pretty close. Even took all three down to LFS to make sure they were all accurate against his, and they were all really close. I have been looking at the digital ones, but I think a UV sterilizer is next on the list.
B

 

[kdlbem]

Woke up this morning and the majestic was dead No sign of illness, just been a picky eater lately. I don't get it Oh well , that's enogh for me. I'm gonna sell the salt tank Hate to do it, but this is too much! Been to busy with the fish to do anything else lately, and my lower back is KILLING me from all the water changes lately(already had one surgery, trying to avoid another). But I'll have another tank someday, when I have more room, money, and patience(mostly money) Thanks for everything!!! SWF.com is the BEST BB on the net!!!!
B
[ June 03, 2001: Message edited by: KDLBEM ]

 

[tangs_in_pacifica]

KDLBEM,
Take some time and think about it, before you do anything drastic. This is a great hobby, but it does have it's dissapointments. I used to go crazy testing almost daily, heavy water-changes, etc. After a while, I got a little less fanatical with my tanks and they flourished. I actually started to like them a lot more when I spent less time on them. As a bonus, my fiancee and boss liked me more as well. I guess I've gotten to the point over the years where I've figured out the things I can keep, level of crowding, maintenance systems, etc. that work for me. I also have gone through some major tank problems.
For me, as a lazy reefer, it's about balancing effort and enjoyment. I think a 75 gallon FOWLR would have a nice effort/enjoyment ratio. When my friends come over and see all of my tanks, they allways ask me how I find the time to keep them up. Many of them have freshwater systems and avoid saltwater, because they've heard it's so hard to maintain. The truth is I recently tried a planted tank and went crazy fighting neussance algae, fish problems, dying plants, etc. That tanks is now saltwater
Take some time, let the tank settle a bit and get back up on that horse.

 

[beth]

Yes, I believe it was me that recommended [some time ago to someone] 1/2 dosage when COMBINING the 2 Maracyns.
Maracyn is a erythromycin medication, and Marcyn2 is a tetracyline antibotic. Both marcyns have VitB complex supplements. They both work very similarly on many of the same types of bacteria [in humans as well as fish]. If you will note the package incert, you will see that they both treat pretty much the same fish diseases.
It was my opinion [not that I'm a fish vet or anything] that combining the 2 antibotics could lead to excessive overdosing--thus the suggestion of half dosing each med, if you're going to use the 2 together. [Ever have a dr prescribe 2 antibotics at the same time full strengh no less?]. Additionally, the full treatment course can be for up to 10 days, not 5, with double doses the first day.
But, also, vitimin B toxicity can be a real problem, too...like renal failure. Full strengh on 2 antibotics would also be double dosing on Vit B's. These are "broad-spectrum" antibotics which means that they are effective to a wide variety of opportunistic bactrium. I wouldn't combine both theses meds together at full dose in my aquaria...we are talking about treating in main tank, not a hospital.