Need help Kinda discouraged!!

[bowjunkie]

Hi All, I am a little frustrated. I have a 20 gal High tank with around 15 lbs of LR. I am doing good with the water changes and have a 96 w 50/50 light. Still working on all the lingo. I checked all my levels about 2 weeks ago and they were fine. I have a 2 1/2" of live sand in the tank andI have more regular sand to add when I get the chance. I have 10-12 hermit crabs, emerald crab, coral banded shrimp, Chocolate Chip Star, Brittle star(comming out going to another tank)multiple snails, and a feather duster I have I piece of Xenia just reciently added, and only 1 fish a Blue damsel.
Ok with that out of the way here is my problem. I put in new fish and they are fine for 4 or 5 days then the get ich and die in a couple more. It is very discourageing because I don't want the fish to die and I really don't want to keep buying $20 fish that die in a week. I don't want to Kill any fish or keep throwing away money. I am running a Skilter 250 filter and have been feeding frozen brine. I haven't had any problems with the inverts or coral just the fish. Is something stressing out the fish too much? My shrimp seems to be very aggressive is this a problem. Thanks For the help. Bowjunkie

 

[bowjunkie]

Here is a pic of my tank. Thanks

 

[jumpfrog]

One of the most returned questions you'll get on this board is to comments: "my water tested fine."
When posting problems it is always helpful to provide the following test levels:
ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, calcium, alkalinity, ph and salinity.
with those numbers you'll get a much better chance of getting some advice relating to your problem.
Having said that:
What are your numbers?

 

[fishmamma]

Can you give us some more info:
- actual water parameters that you are testing with past and current levels if they have changed
-acclimation procedure used for fish
-exact symptoms and behavior of fish before they die (ie- are they eating, has breathing rate changed, do they hide etc....)
This can be a tough hobby, with some knowledge and patience you will get past this. As a side note I think the choco star is not reef safe but not 100% on that, just though tI would share.

 

[hagfish]

You may want to post some more specific questions about the fish that had ich in the disease forum. But the bottom line is, that you seem to have ich in your tank. The damsel is probably fighting it off because they are as tough as nails. So you may never see it on him. I suggest you search the boards here to learn all about ich and it's cycles. Since you have inverts, the easiest way to get rid of ich is probably to set up a QT tank and try hyposalinity in that tank. Although since your damsel is fighting off the ich you may be able to wait 6 weeks or so before adding more fish and the ich may die off by then if the damsel doesn't get it.
Coral banded shrimp are a little aggressive, probably even moreso in such a small tank. It's hard to imagine him stressing the fish out too much though. More likely is that the damsel is chasing and nipping at the fish. They are usually pretty mean.
What kind of fish have you purchased that have died of ich?
Do you have any other flow other than that from the skilter?

 

[mrdc]

Sounds like you need a quarratine tank and acclimate fish for a few weeks before adding the fish to your main tank. You can easily treat fish in your QT. If I understand correctly, the ich is still in your tank unless you go about 4 weeks w/o any fish so the ich can cycle out. You can raise the temp which is supposed to make ich cycle faster. Not everyone agrees on how to treat ich but the QT tank is agreed by most as a must have.

 

[jumpfrog]

Something else I noticed. Your picture didn't pop up the first time I pulled your post.
Water temperature can be an issue at times. Constant numbers are better. If I'm seeing it right your thermometer is right next to your heater. I'd move it further away next to some water flow to get a better idea of what your water temperature is.
cheers

 

[hagfish]

I agree that the starfish is not reef safe. I would take him back to the LFS or sell him locally if you want a reef. And if you don't want a reef, a 20 gallon is probably too small for him anyway.

 

[coachklm]

chocolate chip stars ive been told are not reef safe ......

 

[bowjunkie]

I will test the Water tonight and get the exact numbers. I am just learning.
I will move/ trade in the CC Star and find one that is reef safe. The kids like the star the best. I would like to keep one in the tank.
On the acclimation procedure I was told to put the bag in the top of the tank and let it warm up10-15 minutes. Then over the next Hour add a little water at a time from the tank to the bag. If this is wrong I am sorry this is what I got from the LFS.
The fish are fine for 3 or 4 days and then the get white specs on their whole body and the slow down. I have gave them a FW bath to try and help. but they die in a day or 2. I have lost 2 blue tail damsels, 1 Percula clown, and a royal gramma.
I will move the The thermometer it is about 10" from the heater. I can move to another part of the tank. The temp in the tank stays constitant for te most part.
No other water flow except the Skilter. I am going to look into another filter and skimmer possibly when I have the funds.
Thanks for all your help.
Is their a sure fire way to get rid of the Ich? How did it get in my tank? :notsure: mabey I should just stick to archery. something I know. LOL Bowjunkie

 

[mrdc]

Ich is usually already on the fish when you purchased it. Now it's in your tank and it takes awhile to die off and won't die unless you don't have a fish host. There is no sure fire way in getting rid of ich in a reef tank w/o killing your inverts. At least I haven't found anything and ich has been my main research for the last week or so. I have a Royal Tang in hyposalinity right now.
If you have a QT, you have several options in treating fish. As far as treating in a reef tank, many people swear by garlic and vtiamin soaked foods. The garlic idea is gaining popularity but many see it as a preventive measure and not a cure.

 

[hagfish]

You could remove the CB shrimp and get a cleaner shrimp to at least control it a little.
FWIW, there probably aren't any starfish, other than brittle and serpent stars which probably aren't what you're looking for, that will do well in such a small tank in the long term. They need much more live rock than that tank can hold to feed off of.
You probably need a little more flow. Are you at least getting good surface disturbance? Without proper flow and especially surface disturbance oxygen won't be distributed very well in the aquarium. That will definitely stress out the fish and make them more susceptable to ich.
"Kick ich" is a product that I had researched before, but never used that many had success with in reef tanks.

 

[fishmamma]

Originally Posted by Bowjunkie
I will test the Water tonight and get the exact numbers. I am just learning.
I will move/ trade in the CC Star and find one that is reef safe. The kids like the star the best. I would like to keep one in the tank.
On the acclimation procedure I was told to put the bag in the top of the tank and let it warm up10-15 minutes. Then over the next Hour add a little water at a time from the tank to the bag. If this is wrong I am sorry this is what I got from the LFS.
The fish are fine for 3 or 4 days and then the get white specs on their whole body and the slow down. I have gave them a FW bath to try and help. but they die in a day or 2. I have lost 2 blue tail damsels, 1 Percula clown, and a royal gramma.
I will move the The thermometer it is about 10" from the heater. I can move to another part of the tank. The temp in the tank stays constitant for te most part.
No other water flow except the Skilter. I am going to look into another filter and skimmer possibly when I have the funds.
Thanks for all your help.
Is their a sure fire way to get rid of the Ich? How did it get in my tank? :notsure: mabey I should just stick to archery. something I know. LOL Bowjunkie
That acclimation procedure is fine since the LFS parameters are probably close to your own, especially if they have been advising you. I questioned about any other signs/symptoms of disease because it seems as though these fish go from appearing totally healthy to completely covered in spots and dead within 48 hours or so. There are a couple of diseases out there which can show as white spots but it is most likely ich IMO if the damsel has survived all this time in the same tank as the other fish. There is a possibility that something in your tank is really stressing these fish out and causing them to die so quickly from ich. Possibly a water issue or maybe even the damsel. You will need to tlet the tank run with out any fish for 6 weeks or so in order to eradicate the parasite so a QT/hospital tank will be your best bet. If the damsel is harassing new fish maybe consider trading it in along with the CC star.