Need Help losing LS

[acman]

I am very new to this wonderful hobby, and looking forward to a great tank to watch, but right now I have problems. I bought my set up from the LFS, after reading the info on the message boards i have discovered many mistakes I made in the process and now trying to correct them. Started my 175 Bow front on 3/15/06 with Carbsea argonite, added LR (190 lbs) 3/20/06, tank cycled by 4/16/06. At this point the LFS said 'you can add invert and fish now what would you like'. We started with 4 hermits, 4 bumble bee snails, 4 elephant snails, 4 turbos, 1 tiger cowry, 1 arrow crab, 1 corl banded shrimp, 1 urchin, 2 dominos, 2 yellow tail damsels, 2 striped damsels, 1 yellow tang, 1 blue tang, 4 clowns, and 2 anenomes. So far my loses

are all clowns, dominos, turbos, hermits, one striped damsel, and my blue tang is sick, looks like ich.
I have order and refugium sump with skimmer yesterday and installed a RO/DI system for water changes. Invested in and test kit and refractometer. I am ordering 40 lbs of LS soon. I am getting growth on the glass every couple days, I clean often and have done 2 water changes of approx 40 gal.
My biggest concern right now in my tang, I do not want to loose her. I have another 75 gal tank I can set up as a hospital tank, but that will take time. HELP

Here is the test results.
5/16/06- PH 8.2 Nitrate 2.5 Nitrite 0 AM Normal Sal 1.022
I feed every other day frozen veriaty.
What am I missing? (lots i know, but how can i save my fish) I am wondering if I have enough inverts?

 

[mcsd22]

Just my opinion now but I had problems early on with good water parameters after my tank had cycled. The best I can offer is that after about 6 months things started coming together like they should of. As far as the tang goes they are prone to ick and I found that out after the fact. I treated with kick ick due to no hospital. LIONCRAZZ helped me out with the ick problem and also diet such as mysiss, formula 1 and 2 zoe and garlic. the diet helped him out alot.

 

[omgsaltwat]

Take it back to lfs no new tank can handle 12 fish at one time. anenomes need perfect water I think (not sure)

but when they die they will become toxic to your tank. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[elitephoto]

Yeah I have to say I think you put in way to much at one time. just my .02 cents. Hope your others pull threw though

 

[zman1]

What is your temp ( with swing High - Low) and what are you using to messure SG. It was a little to much too fast but the parameters you posted doesn't indicate a bio overload. Run your test again and validate. If they are off you need to do a water change.

 

[timo]

Don't waste your time testing the water.
As stated, too much too fast.
Say again what's still alive... The decreased bioload via death has increased the survivors chances a bit providing you have removed the carnage.
These are the times to learn.
TimO

 

[reeffreak9]

What are your salt levels? Do you have a amonia tester? With that many fish added at one time your amonia levels could peak before leveling off. That stress can cause death and ick. You may want to concider using Cycle made by nutrafin; it rapidly matures new aquariums. It also adds massive amounts of beneficial bacterias that keep your amonia and nitrite levels low. And i'd keep an eye on the ick, and possibly treat with rid ick. Good luck!

 

[medic79]

Agreed with several of the previous statments. I learned much like you did THE HARD WAY OF LFS ADVICE . I originally put in 2 stipe damsels, 2 Yellow tail damsels, 2 Velvet damsels, 4 camel shrimp 2 peppermint shrimp and scooter the only thing still left from my original load is a scooter and 2 camel shrimp. THat crash happened about 4 months ago right after my tank cycled. What I learned from the whole event was to research more than just the advice of LFS demons. I'm not saying they are all bad I found a new one that is pretty good. But they do have to make money I just tend to believe in the goodness of people and thats what happens alot in this hobby. All I can say is stick with it and you'll be happy you did. I've now been stable for 3 and a half months have 2 firefish (now mating)

an emerald crab, the scooter (indestructible)lol, and 2 camels 2 new peppermintsand 20 astrea snails. It's all worth it now I add about one or two fish every 2 to 4 weeks. But thats because I'm kinda skiddish now.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by Acman
I am very new to this wonderful hobby, and looking forward to a great tank to watch, but right now I have problems. I bought my set up from the LFS, after reading the info on the message boards i have discovered many mistakes I made in the process and now trying to correct them. Started my 175 Bow front on 3/15/06 with Carbsea argonite, added LR (190 lbs) 3/20/06, tank cycled by 4/16/06. At this point the LFS said 'you can add invert and fish now what would you like'. We started with 4 hermits, 4 bumble bee snails, 4 elephant snails, 4 turbos, 1 tiger cowry, 1 arrow crab, 1 corl banded shrimp, 1 urchin, 2 dominos, 2 yellow tail damsels, 2 striped damsels, 1 yellow tang, 1 blue tang, 4 clowns, and 2 anenomes. So far my loses

are all clowns, dominos, turbos, hermits, one striped damsel, and my blue tang is sick, looks like ich.
That's A LOT of fish to cram in all at once like it was stated already. Those domino damsels are very mean.
I have order and refugium sump with skimmer yesterday and installed a RO/DI system for water changes. Invested in and test kit and refractometer. I am ordering 40 lbs of LS soon. I am getting growth on the glass every couple days, I clean often and have done 2 water changes of approx 40 gal.
Refugiums are nice!!!
My biggest concern right now in my tang, I do not want to loose her. I have another 75 gal tank I can set up as a hospital tank, but that will take time. HELP

I would get a smaller tank then a 75 to set as a hospital tank, if you do hypo, it will require you to do freshwater changes to lower salinity and that's A LOT of water changes you will have to do in a 75. I would start feeding garlic enhanced food like formula 2 or soak garlic extreme within the food your feeding to start boosting up their immune system. A good amount of water change will help you right now since you cram so much fish all at once. Best thing you can do right now is keep up with your water changes and feeding garlic food. Otherwise you can do the hypo treatment but it would be hell taking out all of those rocks from a 175g tank to catch those fish. I would advice on feeding 3-4 times daily of garlic treated food. :happyfish

 

[acman]

THANKS GUYS! I really appriciate all the advice. Mikeyjer, what size hospital tank would recommend? Based on my research I think i need more LR any comments?
TIMO- I have 1-striped damsel, 1-yellow tang, 1-blue tang, 4 elephant snails, 4 bumble bees, 1-scooter, 1-goby, 1-urchin, 1-tiger cowry, and 2 yellow tail damsels left.
ZMAN1- My temp swing in 72.5-75.6 I ordered 2 heaters on Monday, SG is salinaty? If so it is 1.022 I use a refractometer, have a hydrometer also but like the refractometer.
Aomonia is .25
Thank you all for the advice! This is what makes the hobby wonderful, getting real advice from real people.

 

[symon]

I am afraid the lfs set you up to fail! They want to make money and you had it to spare!
as far as the tang and ick, I can not seem to keep one, I took my achilles back to the lfs and they found him a good home! No more tangs for me till i can get a 150 going!
As said before, although your tank cycled it still needed to mature before adding that kind of load to it!
Good Luck and keep trying !

 

[zman1]

That makes since the ammonia is up, you had me worried how all levels would be spot on and have catastrophic live stock results. I would do a water change just to relieve the stress on the live stock. This may impede the system auto adjusting for bio load, but in my opinion taking some of the stress off the LS right now would be most important. Since you must have a thermometer and you are getting heaters, keep in mind it's best to adjust your heater based on the thermometer and not the dials or numbers on the heaters they are always way off IME. Unless you are getting higher end digitals and even with those it's good to have a second opinion temp. gauge. Try to minimize the temp swing, what ever your high is, try to adjust so you keep the tank at that level. My high is 80 with lights on I adjust to keep it there when it tries to cool off at night. minimal swing is the goal. Your inverts need a higher SG. I would recommend slowly adjusting that up to at least 1.024 -1.025. I would question the ethics of your LFS. Some don't care, it's a sale and others would rather you be successful and be a long time hobbyist and customer. When I started collecting SPS, only one out of three asked or stated, you have MH, correct. The other two just sold. Not that that's a totally bad thing in general, but if you bought all your LS from the same LFS at the same time, they sould have said something or asked.
Good luck and stick with it, things will turn around... You just paid some dues.

 

[medic79]

OMGSALTWAT brought up a very valid point that I've seen first hand in my brother in laws tank. Keep an eye on those anemonesif they die it's like pouring a bucket of ammonia in your tank they release it. He had a condi that died and he didn't notice for a few days while out of town and when he came home his ammonia was off the chart it' killed almost all his fish amazingly some inverts survived shrimp and a couple crabs (go figure they say they're the first to go in amonnia spike :notsure: ). Any way if they start acting peculier in any way take em to the lfs and if they're a good shop they'll give you credit or they might hold em' for you I know the one I go to now does both.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by Acman
THANKS GUYS! I really appriciate all the advice. Mikeyjer, what size hospital tank would recommend? Based on my research I think i need more LR any comments?
TIMO- I have 1-striped damsel, 1-yellow tang, 1-blue tang, 4 elephant snails, 4 bumble bees, 1-scooter, 1-goby, 1-urchin, 1-tiger cowry, and 2 yellow tail damsels left.
ZMAN1- My temp swing in 72.5-75.6 I ordered 2 heaters on Monday, SG is salinaty? If so it is 1.022 I use a refractometer, have a hydrometer also but like the refractometer.
Aomonia is .25
Thank you all for the advice! This is what makes the hobby wonderful, getting real advice from real people.
Like it was said, remove that anemone!! I missed that part. Depending on the size of those fish for the size of the QT tank. If they're pretty small like around 2-3" I would say somewhere around 35-40 gallons would do. You have to do constant water changes if you want to set it right up. Siphon out any left over foods that's not being eaten. Since this is critical, you need to remove'em ASAP. Either that or you can start doing large water changes to lower your Ammonia and Nitrite. I would say around 25% water change, in extreme cases, 50% should be done. The reason for that is if you can't get the tank, that would be your best bet. Keep testing your tank and have premixed water available to do water changes as needed. You need to take care of that temp swing! If at all possible, take'em ALL back to your LFS and told them exactly what happened and demand refund or have them hold all your live stock until your tank is done cycling. :happyfish

 

[timo]

Pick the tang you want... two in an already stressed tank will further freak those territorial fish. Not saying the tank isn't big enough for two in a healthy situation.
Good luck.
TimO

 

[inception7]

Ok,
Here goes, and I don't want to come across harsh but I have to. Please do much more research before you go into a hobby like this. First your Bio Filter was not even close to established enough to handle that kind of load. Please only add one fish at a time, preferably QT each for a month. Your husbandry is a little worry-some because the Damsel and the Tang will most like do nothing but cause heart ache. Anemones do require perfect conditions i.e. 8.1-8.4 SG, N,Ni,A all at 0 and a good lighting system that will maintain it's needs. I would seriously take all fish out and leave your clean up crew as long as your levels aren't toxic, i.e Ammonia >0, Ni >0 and ask your fish store why they have no regard for the fishes well being. It's best to start a new and not torture your tang (which is highly succeptable to disease and stress) Please do not take this as scorn, I am just worried for the beautifull lives that are in your hands. If you have any other questions, please ask someone that has regard for creatures.

 

[maxalmon]

I agree with Inception, you made some serious mistakes. Depending on how you learn from those mistakes will determine your future success or failure with this hobby. Another expample of how serious the art of fish keeping must be taken. Good luck to you, follow most of the advice posted on this forum and if you have questions, ask first! It's always better to be pro-active than re-active...