Need help with 180 FOWLR setup.

[Alex West]

This will be my first saltwater tank. I've been researching all over the net looking for the best options. I'm more confused now than when i started. I scored a 180 gallon tank for $100.00 awhile back that is not drilled. I would like to drill it and put a single overflow in the corner with a durso stand pipe (due to tank placement/ visible from 3 sides).

I thought I was going to run a bare bottom sump with a skimmer, chemipure, and live rock in the DT but I just read about needing a refugium when the tank has a heavy bioload, any advice?

I would like to stock it with: clown trigger, a puffer, a couple tangs and an angel or two

 

[pegasus]

Refugiums are a matter of preference. I prefer to have one as they offer the ability to incorporate macro algae as part of the natural filtration. This helps to slow the increase of Nitrate and Phosphate levels. It also creates a "refuge" for pods and such to reproduce and be safe from predation... thus the name refugium. This is a free source of food for many fish and some corals. If you are going with larger fish, you don't really need a refugium. The list of fish you provided won't create a huge strain on the biofilter, which is beneficial bacteria that lives in the rocks and sand. It's recommended that you use 1 - 1 1/2 lbs each of rock and sand for each gallon of water, but I like to use more. Just my preference, but a deep sandbed can work wonders at keeping Nitrates to a minimum. Some people prefer a bare-bottom tank, or shallow sand beds, which is okay... if you like changing water frequently.

A single overflow on a 180G? Better make it a big one! In order for a tank to remain healthy, it needs to turn over the tank's water (circulate) 4-6 times per hour. It'll take a very large pipe to flow 720-1080 gallons per hour. The lower number is for a refugium, and the higher number is for a sump. You'll want the water in the tank to turn over at a much higher rate, which is accomplished through powerheads/wavemakers. I'm not a plumber, so I can't tell you the flow rates for different sized pipe, but I know there are charts out there that will give that info. Once you determine the amount of flow you want going through your sump or refugium, you match it with an appropriate size return pump.

 

[seecrabrun]

I just recently found this nice little calculator for return pumps. It isn't up to date on some of the models now available, but it seems handy still. It has the option to select pipe diameter to help determine flow.
http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php?submitted=1&VerticalLength=3&HorizontalLength=1&PipeDiameter=0.75&PumpID=102&Elbows90=1&Elbows45=0&GateValves=0&BallValves=0&Couplings=0&CheckValves=0&Exits=1&Entrances=1

You definitely are not required to have a refugium, but it is a great natural way to keep your tank balanced.

 

[Alex West]

I read somewhere that a single 1.5" bulkhead could flow 1500 gph.

Do I get a pump that flows the same or more than the overflow?

I prefer the look of a shallow sand bed

 

[pegasus]

It can be difficult to keep two tangs and two angels in the same tank. They don't play well with their own kind. One tang and one angel is fine... they will be good friends. You might be lucky and get away with having a pair of each if each pair is introduced simultaneously... but not both pairs at once. You'll want to be careful about adding too many fish at one time. It's best to add one, or a couple of small ones, at a time. This gives the system a chance to adjust to the new bioload without being overloaded and crashing. This is a common mistake too many people make after setting up and cycling their tanks, and many fish are lost due to haste. Not many people here have the uber-fancy, high-tech filtration systems like they put on the aquariums in the show "Tanked", so most of us don't get to dump 50 fish in a 180G tank all at once and step back to admire it. Our little skimmers and absorbents can only handle so much, so we have to proceed slowly and cautiously...

 

[Alex West]

Yeah, I had a 100 gallon with african cichlids for several years I understand what you are saying about shocking the system with a huge bioload. So you think by adding both angels or both tangs at once it may improve my chances and not adding one of each at the same time

 

[pegasus]

I read somewhere that a single 1.5" bulkhead could flow 1500 gph.

Do I get a pump that flows the same or more than the overflow?

I prefer the look of a shallow sand bed

Naturally, you never want your return pump flowing more GPH than the overflow(s) can drain. Proper flow can be accomplished two ways: by matching the pump to the GPH you need, or using a pump that exceeds the desired flow with a flow control attached. I normally buy pumps a size up from what I need, which allows for flow loss due to wear and tear. I also prefer using gate valves, as they give more precise control that ball valves. Always attach the valve on the outlet (pressure) side of a pump... never on the inlet (suction) side of the pump. You can determine the amount of flow by running the system for awhile, and catch all the water flowing into the sump in a gallon jug, while timing it to see how long it takes to fill the gallon jug. It shouldn't take long. See how many times this number will go into 60 minutes, and that will tell you the current GPH of flow you have. Example: It takes 5 seconds to fill a gallon jug. This equals to 12 gallons per minute, and 720 gallons per hour. 720GPH. You may want to use a 5 gallon bucket if your flow is going to be more than 1000GPH... lol!

 

[pegasus]

Yeah, I had a 100 gallon with african cichlids for several years I understand what you are saying about shocking the system with a huge bioload. So you think by adding both angels or both tangs at once it may improve my chances and not adding one of each at the same time

That's correct. Single tangs and angels will quickly set up their territories once introduced to a new environment. This is often the entire tank. By adding them in pairs, you lessen the chance of territorial disputes. There's no guarantee that they won't squabble, but you stand a much better chance of co-existence. As both types of fish are pretty much on an even keel when it comes to being territorial, I don't think it will matter which pair is introduced first. Just give the tank a few weeks to adjust before adding the other pair.

Of course, the very first thing you have to do is completely "cycle" the tank so it will be ready for it's new inhabitants... which are gradually added.

 

[Alex West]

Another thing I've found no good answer on is what is the ideal size sump, any input?

 

[pegasus]

Another thing I've found no good answer on is what is the ideal size sump, any input?

Like I posted earlier, it depends on your needs. If using a sump, try to get 6x turnover of tank water... 180 gallons x 6 = 1080 GPH. If using a refugium, flow needs to be slower for nutrient uptake... 180 x 4 = 720. You also need to compensate for the height of lift (head), which will cause flow loss. The higher the lift, the higher the flow loss. It's usually not much if the pump is located in a stand under the tank. Maybe a couple hundred GPH. It can be more depending on how many elbows are used in the plumbing. That's why you should oversize the pump and use a valve to adjust the flow. If you want 6x turnover, get a 1200GPH pump. If you want 4x turnover, get a 900GPH. A good quality pump will deliver it's advertised flow and give longer, more dependable service. Your return pump is the heart of the system, so don't skimp on it.

 

[geridoc]

Another thing I've found no good answer on is what is the ideal size sump, any input?

This varies, depending on what equipment you want in the sump. If you are going to have a skimmer, look at the diameter of the unit, the size of the skimmer pump, the size of the return pump (if using a submerged pump), the size of the heaters and of anything else you think will be in the sump, and get a sump that will accommodate all that and probably more since your needs will increase as you progress. Also consider where you are going to put the sump. I presently have a 30 gallon sump under my 220 gallon system, which is far too small. Next month I will be converting a 110 gallon tank that I have in the garage into a sump that will be in the basement. I am going to design it so that I do have a refugium, (which will contain cephalopods), but I have lots of space in the basement that I don't have under the tank.

 

[pegasus]

Thanks for clearing that up, geridoc. Obviously, I misread and thought he was asking about the ideal size of pump. DOH!!!

I'd also recommend you get the largest sump you can and still be able to perform maintenance on the installed equipment. My refugium is in the basement also, and I initially got the largest commercial one I could afford. I have an eShopps R300 that's rated for 225-300 gallons, but only have two tanks tied into it that total 165 gallons. Even though I have room for expansion, I wish it were even bigger. It's plenty big for the equipment that's installed (skimmer, 4 pumps, and UV sterilizer). It's not big enough for the heaters I use without being in the way, so they're hidden behind the rocks in the tanks. I want a larger refugium so I can incorporate a deep sand bed (DSB). I have a remote DSB (RDSB), which accounts for one of the pumps, and would like to remove that pump and the feed and return lines from the return chamber. That'll be a future project, as what I have is working for the moment.

 

[Alex West]

It will be under the stand as this will be the easiest option and we don't have basements in south Louisiana. Guess it's time to start looking at skimmers and pumps.