need help with new 120-clown trigger,arothron sp. puffer, volitan lion, angel?

[tomtoothdoc]

i'm switching to fowlr from a 120 gal. 72x18x20 fresh water with 2x canister filters- magnum 350 pro system with biowheels (i'll get rid of the biowheels) and an emperor 400 hang on filter, an aquaclear 901 and 2x dual strips fluorescent lights. i have many extra stuff, 2x seio 620's, 2x maxijet 900's, 2x emperor 280's, a prism pro deluxe skimmer, from my other tanks -75 & 45 reef, 2x 15 seahorses/ wart skin anglers tanks, 2x 10 qt's.
planning on about 50-75 lbs lr plus 2-3 inch crushed aragonite sand- 1mm - 5mm sized. can't drill the tank so no overflow/sump- a friend had a flood with the hang on overflow-like its name "overflow"

i need help choosing and in what order with the following fish: one clown trigger 2-3 inch, one volitan lion 4-5 inch, one puffer, either gold, masked, dogface, or star&stripe 3-4 inch, and one 3-4 inch (juvi) large angel- perhaps passer, majestic, imperator, or scribbled.

i was thinking about adding at one month intervals, the lion first , then the puffer, then the trigger, and lastly the angel after the tank established for at least 6 months.
how long before the tank be too small for these sizes of fish? at that time i'll trade them back to the lfs for smaller ones again

. larger or more tanks is out of the question..

...the wife had given the ultimatum

sorry for the long post any input is greatly appreciated

also any suggestions on a hang on skimmer better than the prism pro?
thank you all in advance

 

[psusocr1]

your going to need a big filtration with a large skimmer,, IMO you shouldnt put a lion with triggers or puffers or it will kill it
you will also take some hits from people saying its irresponsible to house a fish if you cant house it for life..
it will only be mnths before some of these fish outgrow the tank so you wouldnt have alot of them for very long( as soon as your done stocking it will be close ot taking them back) which really isnt fair to the fish.. but thats your call.
also with these kind of fish on a smaller tank iw ould run asump/refugium with an larger skimmer not a hang-on.. youll need all the help you can get to keep levels down with these fish in a 125..

 

[tomtoothdoc]

psusocr1, thanks for the input.

out of those; lion, trigger, puffer.....what will kill what. we wouldn't want that. what about an angel? what combination can i keep in a 120 then. i really want to make sure that they will live happily together. i want to be able to keep at least 2-3 fish there, but i would't want to overcrowd and compromise their heallth either.
again, can't do the overflow/sump option.... so hang on skimmer is the only other option. i have an ecosystem miracle mud refugium on the 75 manufacturer drilled reef tank...with an asm g3 in sump skimmer....love it, but i can't get the 120 tank drilled and i won't go with the hang on overflow.... saw the damage a 90 reef with 30 refug. did to my friend's living room and the basement home theater.... over $45k...no can do

.so what's the best choice in hang on skimmer?
i thought these guys(2-3 inch clown trigger, 3-4 inch arothron sp. puffer, volitan lion, and [juvi.] large angel) would take years to grow. how long does it take from 3-4 inch range to fullgrown?

at what size and how long would they be considered outgrown?
please, i would appreciate more info. from those who have kept these fish (fishes?)/ or any of these combinations together. there are thousands of posts/day, there must be some who have had experience with theses

thank you

 

[nicetry]

Look at Deltec for a high end hang on skimmer, although you could certainly do a hang on overflow and sump to keep the skimmer out of view. Lifereef is a quality U tube (best design) overflow and it won't fail. Not sure which one your friend had. The added water volume of a sump would be advantageous given the type of set up you want.
I personally wouldn't keep a clown trigger in with the other fish you propose. They're gorgeous fish but their reputation is well deserved. Triggers, puffers and even large angels are notorious for picking at lionfish fins. This can stress the lion to the point of death or at the very least, serious health problems. Add the lion first and allow it to get settled. A small volitans lion will grow about 8 inches the first year so look for a full grown fish in about two years if conditions are good. The puff would be okay but again, they grow quite large and will pose a risk to the lionfish. The large angels are relatively slow growing fish. They put on maybe an inch a year. I'd avoid the Passer. Nasty fish that will likely harass the others. Majestics are nice but a bit shy.
IMO, you'll have a tank of large pushy fish competing for limited space. A system in the range of 240 gallons would be better suited to your stock list. If you're up for a bit of compromise, I'd suggest the lion, majestic angel, and a blue throat trigger (smaller, peaceful). It's one less fish but I think the puff will really crowd things as it grows. I personally like to keep fish for the long haul and don't like trading them in once they've grown too large. Often an lfs won't take large predatory fish as few people have the systems for them. I think the three fish would be fine for the long haul, and make for a less stressful environment.
hth

 

[psusocr1]

nicetry gave you some great advice..
i agree with everything he had said . IMHO i would scratch alot of fish you want and do something totally different in the agressives
i had my lion when he was a little tiny thing and within a year he was big enough to eat juvi tangs! so if fed properly they will outgrow it quick.. as well as the food you will have to feed them in a space that small with those kind of eaters you may have level problems unless you somehow really beef the filtration up..

 

[crimzy]

Coralife Superskimmer is a good skimmer and it can be a hang-on. You should listen to the advise about not putting a lion with a clown trigger. I have seen too many lions ripped apart by aggressive triggers. Other than the lion, I think you'll be fine for a couple of years. I'd go with one of the smaller angels, such as a majestic. I'd replace the lion with another trigger or a grouper (not panther).

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Coralife Superskimmer is a good skimmer and it can be a hang-on. You should listen to the advise about not putting a lion with a clown trigger. I have seen too many lions ripped apart by aggressive triggers. Other than the lion, I think you'll be fine for a couple of years. I'd go with one of the smaller angels, such as a majestic. I'd replace the lion with another trigger or a grouper (not panther).

Yeah, I love the idea of lions & triggers together; but it seldom works. Triggers and puffers are nippers and the long, flowing fins of the lions are irresistible;and the lions are too slow to get away. A word of caution about clown triggers: they're great fish, can go from docile to pit bull overnight, and the very small ones are very hard to raise. Once at the Juvi stage, they're easy. I like the majestic angel suggestion too; raising one from juvi to adult is a real satisfying achievement--and not that hard.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

thank you

thank you

thank you

for the great advices, i'll heed them wisely

i'll go make up another list. i'll be back later....gotta put the kids to bed and watch karate kid with my daughter

 

[tomtoothdoc]

oh another quick note ... i checked out the deltec skimmer...... a little more than i was planning to spend

any good hang on in the range of say 200-300 bucks? be back later tonight

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by tomtoothdoc
oh another quick note ... i checked out the deltec skimmer...... a little more than i was planning to spend

any good hang on in the range of say 200-300 bucks? be back later tonight

I already mentioned the coralife superskimmer. You should check it out.

 

[1fast300zx]

I have a cora-life 220 on my 125. It works good right after water changes but then a few days later needs to be tuned a bit to continue skimming. It also clogs occasionally (like any other skimmer). Overall though I would say cora-lifes are a good skimmer that are probably in the price range you would be looking to get. A note on Puffers, they are great entertaining and rather smart fish, but extremely messy. I have a stars and stripes housed in a 125 by himself (12 inch long) and he alone keeps my water poor.. You would have to do very frequent water changes with a large puffer unless you get some insane filtration.
Good Luck

 

[srfisher17]

Re: HOT skimmer. I don't know if its big enough, but I love the Aqua-c Remora Pro skimmer. It is BY FAR the best HOT skimmer I've ever used.

 

[dc_wolf]

Originally Posted by nicetry
Look at Deltec for a high end hang on skimmer, although you could certainly do a hang on overflow and sump to keep the skimmer out of view. Lifereef is a quality U tube (best design) overflow and it won't fail. Not sure which one your friend had. The added water volume of a sump would be advantageous given the type of set up you want.
hth
I agree with Nicetry - I have hangons on 2 of my tanks. I have heard of people having overflow problems - but that's because the air lock isn't broken if the power goes out (in other words, if you drill a small hole - maybe 1/4" if that - into the return at a place ABOVE the water line it will cause the overflow to stop putting water in the tank from the sump). I have heard of people having that problem with overflows - but, if you work at them when you install (check it with unplugging the power to see if it stops filling the tank) you will save yourself the "overflow" problem. Also - I have a large clown trigger with other VERY aggresive fish. I would NEVER put my lion in with him - or my puffers.
Hope this helps -

 

[tomtoothdoc]

how about one humu humu (picasso) trigger, one stars and stripes puffer, and one of these; C.duboulayi(scribbled), C. personifer, H. passer,or P. annularis, with the angels in this order of preference. all in the 3-4 inch range.

out of the three fish, the trigger is a keeper, the angel is second and if i have to settle for two fish , i'm willing to give up the puffer.

what order should i put them in after a month or two of just live rocks only (i can get my hand on between 60-80 lbs of fully cured lr that had been established for more than a year from a friend living less than 5 miles away....so from his tank directly into mine), for three fish, i think first the puffer, a month later the trigger, and then the angel a couple of months later.
for two fish, first the trigger then the angel a few months later.
any suggestions on which angel from the aboved list? as far as compatibility, durability, size, difficulty of diet/maintenance , availability and price
anyone has one of these skimmer? Red Sea Berlin Turbo Hang-on(250 gal.-$210), Aqua Medic Turboflotor(250 gal. -$250), Current USA Fission Power Skimmer(210 gal.- $160)

thank you all for great inputs

 

[tomtoothdoc]

oh also i think i'll go with a bare bottom and two seio 620's stirring the floor to help keep things really clean. how much flow do i need for fowlr ? i have extra power heads- one aqua clear 70, two seio 620's, two maxijet 900's, plus two magnum 350 canister filters, and one emporer 400 hang on filter. are these enough?
plus i might be able to get my hand on either a fluval fx5 (925??? gph)or an eheim extra large 2260(500 gph) whichever one my friend doesn't want (his sibblings got them for him without telling one another....their lost..my gain

)

 

[ackdaddy]

that should work but i would add the humu last to the tank cuz they are extremly territorial