Need HELP with nitrates!

[dad]

Please read "I am mad" to see what happened a week ago.
Or: I put a aprox 10lb rock in my tank that had been placed in freshwater by mistake. It still has a few shrooms that are trying to make it.
My problem is that I cannot get my nitrates down!
I did a 50% water change for three days straight then have been doing a 10% everday there after. My nitrates are now at 40ppm!
I bought a new test kit today and still get the same readings.
I cannot give other readings until I get some more kits.
I do not over feed and have limited my lighting to 6hrs a day.
Lets see ....what else?? Getting brown algae on sand, and green algae on glass.
My skimmer sucks also, lol
PS My diamond gobie died a week ago. Could this cause some of this? Not sturring the sand?
I cannot continue the water changes forever and get nowhere,

 

[arkman]

what's the rest of your water quality like?

 

[bdubbya]

Maybe you had a mini-cycle. And I also would like to see your other levels. Has anything else died other than the corals and goby?

 

[hairtrigger]

How deep is your sandbed? I hear denitrification doesn't start until sandbeds are 4 inches or more. Now, less than four inches is a nitrate factory, depending on how deep it is. So that is one option to explore.

 

[kelly]

Dad,
You may have already done this, so do not get offended. Make sure anything that is dead is off of the 10# rock, scrub it if necessary.
If you have already cleaned the rock, remove it from the water and smell it. Sometimes small critters can crawl inside the rock, especially starfish. If one has died inside the rock, and is decaying in there, this could add to the problem.
Like arkman asked, what are your other tests like, especially ammonia and nitrite. If they are up, you are most likely going through another cycle. Do not think there is much that can be done until it completes.
The only option that I can offer is to put the 10# rock in another container with fresh saltwater, and keep it there for a week or 2, doing water changes every couple of days. With minimal lighting, the mushrooms will do ok. Check the main tank for anything that is dying or dead and remove it.
Unfortunately time may be what is needed to complete the cycle (provided nothing else is decaying in your tank.)
Sorry about the problem, I hope you got things straightened out with the petshop, I have not read the other thread in a few days.
Hope things clear up shortly, and would hate for you to leave the hobby, I have always enjoyed reading your posts, and it is nice to call someone dad, my father has been gone for 30 years.
Best wishes

 

[broomer5]

dad,
I re-read the other post.
I think I have a clear picture in my head.
You bought this new piece of nice live rock with shrooms/leathers and the guy at the LFS placed it in a 5 gallon bucket of RO water.
You took this home, placed it in a 20 gallon tank with same freshwater - then added a few pieces of your display tanks existing rock in with the new rock - all sitting in RO water.
Then after a period of time - you placed all the rock in the 20 holding tank back into your display tank - and everything's gone to crap now.
You've done four 50% waterchanges and additional smaller water changes and your trates are around 40.
Am I on the right track ?
If so .......... need a little more information to help figure it out, but I think we partially know the answer. Could be a couple other things to consider too.
First, what size is your display tank ?
Second, what were your nitrates BEFORE this unfortunate incident ?
If you have a relatively small tank - and you removed some of the live rock - the live rock that was providing much of your biological filtration - then the display tank was immediately placed out of balance.
I'm most sure that the shrooms and leather(s) were dying from the moment the guy placed them in the RO water at the store.
The bacteria in the rock - not sure if it died, but I'm sure it was shocked. I'd bet some if not most of the bacteria died during transport home.
So that RO water probably contained some ammonia at that point.
Placing your existing live rock in that same 20 gallon death tank didn't do it any good either. Now your few pieces of good live rock were shocked - and could have been even more die off.
The display tank lost some of it's biological filtration capacity when you first removed the pieces of live rock.
Now - back in the display tank with all this tainted die off rock and dying corals.
The display tank almost HAD to go into a new cycle - ammonia ~~> nitrites ~~> nitrates.
But here's the odd thing.
Doing four 50% water changes - one after another - would have cut that nitrate down quite a bit - UNLESS you are using tapwater that has high nitrates in it to begin with ?????
If you're using tapwater, or store bought freshwater - test it for nitrates too.
Not knowing what your nitrates were BEFORE all this happened - then we're all just guessing.
And what size is your display tank ?

 

[nm reef]

May just be a shot in the dark but it does sound like a mini-cycle to me. Personally I would let it run its course...and a set of quality test kits would help you to evaluate and monitor the water quality. In time your system should be able to stabalise and balance out. If it is a mini-cycle excessive water changes may simply prolong the process....same as performing water changes on a initial cycle.

 

[dad]

I think you guys have found the problem.
I did not think that it would send my tank into a cycle.
My tank is a 100g with aprox 120lbs of rock(130lbs now).
My nitrates have never been zero, always around 5ppm.
I am doing the water changes with store bought distilled water(0 nitrates). It is getting old going to the store buying this, lol
I think now that by me doing the changes I am only extending the mini-cycle?
And yes there may be something dead in my new rock. I just hated to take it out(trying to save the couple of shrooms on it).
Thanks ,

 

[arkman]

Originally posted by broomer5
The bacteria in the rock - not sure if it died, but I'm sure it was shocked. I'd bet some if not most of the bacteria died during transport home.
Broomer - I thought FW bacteria could not live in SW and SW bacteria could not live in FW --- my mental picture is instant explosive bacteria death
hydrophyllic/hydrophobic?!?
I started undergrad as a marine bio major --- its been a while and "a little knowledge is a denagerous thing..."
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
THanks!

 

[broomer5]

arkman,
I don't know for sure - but I think that marine species of Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas are different from those that live in freshwater. Don't quote me on that though - I'm just a hobbyist like the rest of us - not a bacteria guru dude.
I can't correct you - although I do agree with you.
I mentioned that I would think that most of the bacteria would be dead - but I should have said that I thought that most of the EXPOSED bacteria would have died off.
I don't know if the bacteria deep inside the live rock would have all died off as well. Some of that live rock is pretty porous, while other rock is not.
I was just guessing anyways - we're all allowed to guess now and then. Matter of fact - our guesses are normally what leads to someone that knows to speak up vs the rest of us that occassionally guess
A little knowledge can be dangerous - but no more than zero knowledge in most every case. Just don't listen to only ONE person - and you're most often better off.
I use the S.W.A.G. method often in this crazy hobby.
We all have to

 

[arkman]

Broomer - that's cool. This is a great board and everyone who's active on here and sharing their most valuable asset (experience) to help other hobbiest keep their livestock happy and healthy should be commended.
Let's hope a bacteria guru shows up!
BTW, I think you are right, some of the sw and rock probabally did stay "salted" - I didn't think of that.

 

[dad]

Update: I went to my LFS and he GAVE me some test kits that I was needing. He also gave me the rock and my money back.
He is also going to replace some of the things I lost. How much I do not know yet.
Anyhow, here are my readings now:
ammonia...0
PH.............8.4
Nitrite........0
Nitrate.......80ppm
Alk.............unknown
calcium......unknown
I feed with frozen brine(very litttle), DT's marine phyoplankton(as directed), Marine snow(once a week), Seachem's reef builder(as directed), and Kent Marine Coral-Accel(as directed).
Tank is 100g, 130lbs rock, 4"dsb, 12" of fish total.
Filtration is D.A.S. w/sorry skimmer, I turn apox 600gph of water.
Inverts etc is (left) aprox 15 snails(med), 15 hermits(mixed), a few f.dusters, clam, ricorda, umbrella, and a LARGE BTA.
Lighting is 1-400w MH, 1-f40 50-50, 1-f40 actinic.
OOps BTW, It has a abandoned undergravel filter. Plintum?
Whew,
Oh and I am 5"6" tall and wear a size 7........lol