Need lighting help

J

jstdv8

Guest
ok, so ive been reading for weeks on different lighting for my reef set up. At first everything i read and heard was watts per gallon so i was going to base my purchase off of that. then I got into a bunch of threads that said WPG is worthless because different types of bulbs give off different PAR values. So, now im all confused, I don't want to overspend on a ligth set up that may or may not be overkill or I could have better lighting for less money.
So, my question is, What should I be putting over my 90 gallon tank for lights if i dont want to be restricted for the most part with what sort of corals I can and can't put in my tank. I'm ok with not being able to get anything that requires insane amounts of light, but I'd like to be able to run low light, medium and semi high lighting corals if I want and just adjust them in the depth of the tank accordingly.
People keep telling me to read up, but I dont think I can read anything more without my head exploding. Also, i notice some lights are not nearly as expensive as another with the same type of bulbs and wattages, is there more to be considered here? Am i paying for the name? I'm looking for a good bang for my buck it can be a hanging setup or an ontank setup I don't really mind either way as the fixture will be behind a wall and not seen.
Thanks in advance
 
big

big

Active Member
If it is a 90 gallon, 48" x 18" x 24" the Nova Extreme PRO with its 6 reflected T-5's would be a good light..........
It has a good shield and legs including bulbs all in that price. As far as pricing it is nearly as good or better in some folks opinions for less money than the more expensive ones out there. Yes there are more expensive products out there but this is my choice for the 48 inch tanks. One thing is the whiteness off the factory bulbs..... When bulb replacement time comes around, may do go with bulbs producing a bluer effect.....
As you most likely already know from your own research lighting selection is one of the most important decisions we make. Good Luck. .. Warren
Google the term, to find them.
 
todj2002

todj2002

Member
i have two 250 watt metal halides on my 90. using hamilton 14k bulbs and im happy with that. i would suggest spending the money on a god bulb. i have tried alot of less expensive bulbs and prety much a waste of money. u get what u pay for.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

I use 175 X 2 Metal Halide with 14K bulbs on my 90g. The 14K has a bluish tint to it..10K makes the bright yellow light, it doesn't look as nice in the tank but makes coral grow faster. 250w is too much and 150w is too low. JMO
Anything above 150w will work on a 90g...get a brand name, Hamilton is the one I use. Lots of folks use the Nova Extreme... I buy new because then I don't have to worry about trying to tweak anything to get it to work.
Some people use T5s but personally they don't have the same look the MH does. The lights are bright enough to support coral but that is it...just a very, very bright white light.
Metal Halides create a ripple effect in the water...it looks very natural like the sunlight dancing over it. MH lighting is the most expensive, but IMO the most reliable and best looking.
I am not into tech gooblygook...my head explodes too..LOL..so many inches verses so much light and on and on and on. basically...48" long tanks take 2 bulbs, which covers the 55g, the 75g and the 90g...the next size up is the 125g and so on, they usually have 3 bulbs to light the tank. Then the smaller tanks use only 1 bulb to light them.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
So what would be the most economical? one long 48" light or two of those squarish lights hanging over the tank? any pros or cons to using the two seperate lights as opposed to one long one?
 
gill again68

gill again68

Active Member
I went with the T-5s. I currently have 4 that are run by an icecap 660 ballast. I would make this suggestion and I can tell you that I read till my eyes popped out and then read some more. Your not going to get cheap good lights. They dont exist. The metal halides will stop any doubt of light needs in most conditions. They are expensive and put off a lot of heat which could run you more money to try to cool the tank off. Your also gonna find out that this is a heavy personal opinion on what works the best. People I have spoke to have convinced me that each tank is different and there for must be treated different. I would say again that the T-5 retro kit would provide you with the ability to get the minimum lighting you need and you can build on it from there. If you are new to the hobby and will have to cycle your tank, you wont even need lights for the first 4 to 6 weeks. The second thing I would tell you is approach buying the best quality you can afford and not try to find the quality for cheap method. I just dont think that exisit. If you want to go cheap and get quality then you may consider used lights. This scares me unless you know the individual but hey you may get lucky. I bought my lights new from the LFS, They were from the U V Lighting company. Cost $399.99. The online stores had them for the same price basically. I struggled with this as well but spend your money on lights upfront and dont get into having to buy your lighting 2 times cause you went to cheap the first time. Heck thats good advice on anything you buy in this hobby. I am already looking down the road at another skimmer cause I went cheap on the first one and I dont even have a fish in my tank yet! GOOD LUCK!
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Gill,
I get your statement, but 400.00 is on the low end of things for me it seems. The absolute cheapest ligth i could find with some serious power is running 420.00 shipped up here and thats a new light on e-bay. im not going to buy used as I don't know how long the lights have been in there and may need replaced soon.
The t5's that the first poster posted are about the same price but according to the really nice chart that was posted on the site for the novas thats in the lowest catagory and only suitable for soft corals.
I just don't want to buy a 400.00 light and find out I should have spent 700.00 becuase now I cant grow something i want later. Not trying to be cheap, but i don't want to pay 700+ if a 400.00 light will do. I did find a store on e-bay selling a 2x250 MH with a couple t5's and some moonlights all in one setup with a nice aluminum housing and polished refractor for only 350.00 shipped to Ak will be 425.00
That seems like a real good deal, but I dont want to get it and find out its bogus for some reason.
 
big

big

Active Member
If you where thinking the Nova Extreme PRO was only good for soft corals, you most likely where looking at the Nova Extreme, NOT the N.Ex.Pro, big difference.
In a 90 you can keep just about anything your heart desires with the PRO for around 400 bucks........Here are a few shots over time from mine using the N.Ex. PRO.......


 
todj2002

todj2002

Member
order two icecap ballasts approx. $135 each. two metal halide sockets about $10 dollars each. two se hamilton bulbs about $70 each. thats pretty much what i did and im happy with the results.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Big,
Your tank looks nice, how do you feel about the color of the bulbd vs the metal halides? flower says the halides produce a more blue effect which is apparently more pleasing. I'd be estatic with corals like the ones you posted in the pics.
Also according to the lighting chart on the site I came accross when i typed in nova extreme pro the pro has 6 lights and the regular extreme has 8 lights and is more expensive than the pro in the 48" version with of course more wattage. The pro was not even listed as a possiblity for anything more than a 75 gallon while the regular extreme 8 light was listed under soft corals only. However it looks like the chart goes off of wattage based system. I ddi notice the pro has the individual reflectors and the regular one doesnt.
I can get the same light you have over your tank for about 350 looks like. the etreme 8 lught was 400+ and the other light that is on ---- is 425 with the two metal halides and the t-5's and the moon lighting.
Is there any downside to going witht hat ---- deal that doesnt apear to have a brand name to it? or are halides halides and t5's t5's? If they are the ---- one is really nice, if not I'll look more strongly into the novas
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
is it against board rules for me to pist the ---- item on here for you guys to look at and give me input? I don't know and I'm kinda new here, don't want to start off on teh wrong foot. I appreciate all the info so far.
Im intrigued by the metal halide look that flower mentioned and I really like the look of big's corals. seems the ---- model aside from not having a brand name might give me the best of both worlds
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Also, if idecided to go with the nova witht he while lights, could I just also buy 3 bulbs that give off a bluer effect and put them in with the other three lights and have a nicer look or should I just use them up and repalce all with blue bulbs in a year or so?
 
C

cjke77418

Guest
I inherited a odyssea light fixture 48" with 2 175 hqiw and 2 96w power compacts. The ballast for the pcs burnt out and im having no luck finding a replacement. Please help.
 
big

big

Active Member
What Flower said about MH is true as to the shimmer effect..It is basically a point light source issue and the casting of shadows. The big issue with me and MH is HEAT in the summer, far too much....
Here are two shots I took many moons ago showing that principle when I was a scenery builder. Shots are of the exact same work shot with florescent and in the second shot incandescent point source.... It is hard to believe there are exactly the same thing shot from a tripod and with the same exposure just different lighting.. Florescent has a color advantage, and point source has a shadowing one.
Ain't got a lot to do with this issue but is a good example of how the light used makes a difference in what the eye sees. These shots would say es the MH would win if this was the only issue, what the see sees. But the other issues taken into account, I think with today's bulb options for color, T-5s are now the winner.
As to bulb color, Google T-5 bulb brands.... I changed out 4 of my 6 to give a bluer look.......... Next bulb replacement time I may go to a higher K rating yet... Growth speed for me is no longer a concern.
As to the 8 bulb Nova, I have not used it and am not sure how much the added two bulbs verses the reflected six bulb set up changes things. I just do not know.........Good Luck with your choice,... Warren

 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3169081
is it against board rules for me to pist the ---- item on here for you guys to look at and give me input? I don't know and I'm kinda new here, don't want to start off on teh wrong foot. I appreciate all the info so far.
Im intrigued by the metal halide look that flower mentioned and I really like the look of big's corals. seems the ---- model aside from not having a brand name might give me the best of both worlds
Yes, it is against the board rules. You could post the item number and let people go to the site themselves. You just can't post a link.
That famous site where you bid on stuff is rife with sellers selling no-name fixtures. I'm not going to make some blanket statement about them one way or another, but I will say that as a newbie in the lighting world it's probably best that you stick with name brands that you can trust. Those noname lights can have very exaggerated or downright deceptive claims, or be made with cheap components that require some troubleshooting skills to maintain. Unless you know how to spot and deal with this type of thing, it's best to stay with something that you know is going to work.
As far as lighting choices... it's a very confusing world with new technology and terminology all over the place. Personally, I think terminology just moves from one fad to the next. Watts per gallon used to be the big thing, but now it's moved onto PAR, and personally I think that's going to fall by the wayside to PPFD before too long. However, this doesn't mean that WPG is worthless, it's just not the "in way" to talk about it.
IMO, there are three technologies WORTH considering, and two that you SHOULD consider. T5, LED, and Halide are worth it, and Halide and T5 are what you should look at. Do not bother looking at VHO or Compact Fluorescent, they are obsolete, and LED is expensive and hung up in patent trouble at the present.
With halide, just look around. With T5, look for individual reflectors. Take that information, do some shopping around, and post back your "short list," with the specs of the fixtures. Many of us can look at a fixture and a tank and give a "go/no-go" on a particular fixture.
 
twood

twood

Member
Jstdv8,
I am more or less in the same situation as you. I am looking to upgrade the lights on my 55g tank and would like to get the best lights I can afford. I would love to go with MHs, but its just not in my budget. I have decided to go with T-5s. In particular, the Nova Extreme Pro T-5 fixture. I have seen that fixture recommended on here and other reef web sites. It has individual reflectors like SCSInet recommends. The price is around $365+S/H.
I also second SCSInet's advice on being wary of that inexpensive brand of light fixtures listed on the Bay. I was tempted to buy one myself, but when I Googled the name I found a lot of negative comments about the reliability of them.
 
oceansidefish

oceansidefish

Active Member
Originally Posted by cjke77418
http:///forum/post/3169269
I inherited a odyssea light fixture 48" with 2 175 hqiw and 2 96w power compacts. The ballast for the pcs burnt out and im having no luck finding a replacement. Please help.
You should be able to order from the manufacturer or other online SW retailers....
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
OK, finally getting somewhere :) Sorry about the post of the rediculously huge place where you bid on things, I didn't realize the rules were quite that tight, but at least it keeps things in check

I guess Im in the same boat as twood, I cant really afford the halides as a fixture, allthough for about the same money i could make my own I guess, but if the "buy name brand" holds true, it seems that me making my own out of a retrofit would be just as bad or worse than buying a non name brand item as I'm no lighting master allthough i have wired a house or two in my day

I guess I'll look at the nova extreme pro then. It seems that quite a few people are having good luck with them. Would I be correct in assuming that the bulbs that come from factory are ok, but really what I want for when it comes time to replace bulbs? Which i guess leads me to another question, what should I be looking for as far as actinic and such? and how about the 6500/10000/15000/20000 is bigger number best? or is color more of a factor and I see some bulbs are 50/50 is it best to just do 3 of one sort and three of another sort in a 6 bulb set up like the nova? or should I be using 50/50's for all of them, how does one know what to use? again my tank is a 90 gallon, I'm not really concerned with heat due to the fact the tank is in the wall and the backside is built into a room in my garage which is usually cooler than the house and I can have all the fans I want blowing on it and I probably won't hear anything inside the house. I live in AK, so its generally not real hot here either, not like an AZ climate or anything. I will be starting out with frags so I guess the faster I can make them grow into something that looks more real rather than a bunch of small chunks of coral would be best to start and once they grow out I could go more for color enhancement over growth? is this the goal?
 
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