Need more info on live rock plus other things

ijeh99

Member
I have only one live rock and it is almost all white with some algae on it. I am assuming when I set up the aquarium almost four months ago no one advised me not to put in the ammonia bits in the filter, therefore, my LR is looking rather dead. Will my LR live again? Since I have a learned a valuable lesson and an expensive one (as I lost some fishes)- when I purchase more live rock how important is it to have those worms live in the LR? How can I find out which fish can be compatible with another one - since now I don't know if I want to believe the dealership I have been dealing with?! :rolleyes:
 

demosthenes

Active Member
Okay, well a few things, WELCOME TO THE BOARD! Secondly, I don't think that any Ammo-Chips killed your LR, and it's not the rock itself that is living. The rock is simply a harborer of life, you can, and some do, make your own LR, by simply creating a rock mold, and allowing it to, essentially, become "live". The life on LR is the micro-creatures that enable higher life to survive. They are, in a sense, the building blocks in a tank. Millions of small creatures live in/on the LR, substrate, and the walls and filtration of the tank itself, among them are pods, worms, etc. The Ammo-Chips render ammonia harmless, though I have never had personal experience with it, so they would not kill your LR, or the creatures in/on it. I'm also unsure of what may have killed your fish, as it may have been a number of things, uncycled tank, improper/inadequate filtration, malnutrition, etc. Let's start by you giving as much information as possible, so that the members of this board will be able to help.
 

ijeh99

Member
Thanks for responding to my post on the net. I had very cloudy water last week and found out from another dealer that I am never to put in Ammo-chips into the aquarium as it is only for freshwater - since I put in only charcoal the water cleared up in three days so that is why I am assuming the fish went into stress and I lost fish stock. I did not lose my shrimp nor sea slug. In regards to my LR it used to be multiple colors and now it is white, green and brown. Also, when I brought the LR home the dealer told me that many worms are not good therefore put the LR in distilled water for over two hours to get rid of them. Luckily in one way there was no worms but I did get rid of sea monkeys. So, when I buy more LR do I leave all the living stuff on the rock and just put it into the aquarium? I understand you can buy cured LR - how do I know it is cured? Is there anything in particular I must do to my LR? Should I dip the LR in distilled water for a maximum of two minutes to get any parasites off? Do I feed the LR and if so how? I also would like to know about argonite - should I buy the one in the bag or one that is already live in a dealers aquarium - I only have crushed coral and I heard I should add argonite to it - I hope this information was correct. Which site do you recommend that would give me correct information of which fish I can put together? Thanks.
 

demosthenes

Active Member
Lots of questions, always a good thing. I've never used Ammo-Chips, so I didn't think of the fact that they are FW-only, well, lesson learned. The multiple colors on the LR was most likely coralline algae, but it seems it has died off, and that is the reason it is white-die off, green-nuisance algae, and brown-cyanobacteria. It is all part of the cycle. Your LFS dealer was most likely referring to bristle worms when he spoke of bad worms, but this is only true to an extent. Baby bristle worms are great, they eat detritus, add diversity to a DSB, and end up as food for your livestock. You see, large bristle worms are harmful and detrimental as they can kill your fish and such, but I must stress that this is only the large, adult worms, and bristle worms shouldn't grow large enough to do this, as your cleanup crew should eat them before they get fair size, so they get rid of your trash for awhile, stir the sandbed, and then end up as food, where's the downside? On the subject of curing the LR, which can or cannot be done, I'll try to explain it. When you buy uncured LR, it simply means that it has not gone through the cycle, or been seeded with helpful bacteria, aka, uncured. Uncured LR can be good, or it can be bad. If you are just starting, no inhabitants, then uncured LR is good, as it starts the ever-needed cycle, and is much less expensive, so if you don't have anything in your tank, then use uncured LR, and allow it to go through the cycle. Certain organisms on the uncured LR will die off, creating ammonia, and the cycle will start. I guess now the cycle needs explaining. Here goes: 1. Any food, dead organisms, excess nutrients, or animal waste is converted to ammonia, a natural process, and as ammonia is highly toxic, needs to be gotten rid of. 2. Bacteria become established in the sandbed, filter media, and LR, that convert the ammonia to a less-toxic nitrite, though it is still toxic, just not as much as ammonia. 3. More, and different, bacteria convert nitrite to nitrate, only detrimental in high quanities, over 60 ppm, IMO. 4. Nitrate is used up by certain algaes, and is thus depleted. 5. Algae is eaten by algae-grazers, such as tangs and angels, and they produce waste, and the process/cycle starts over. This cycle is known as the Nitrogen Cycle, and unless your sandbed, LR, and filtration is capable of completing the cycle, your fish will die, from ammonia and nitrite, which cause problems in the gills and membranes, thus the death. You don't feed LR at all, as it is not the rock that is living, the rock is just the harborer of life. You can occasionally give your sandbed a boost of life, by adding certain worms, pods, and beneficial bacteria. Worms include elephant worms, bristle worms(babies), etc. Pods include arthropods, amphipods, copepods, etc. Bacteria include Nitrosomas(converts nitrite to nitrate), and Nitrobacter(converts ammonia to nitrite), etc. So, essentially, uncured LR has not been "cleaned" of the organisms that will most likely die, and cured LR has already been cleaned or these organisms. As for the aragonite and CC, I would get rid of the CC, and replace it with a fine-grade playsand, PS, which should contain no silicates, asbestos, and should be white. Then you would cover that with a layer of live sand, LS. You see, if you used the dry aragonite, it costs about $1/lb, so that's $50 for 50lbs, or you can buy a 50 lb bag of PS for $5, considerably cheaper. The purpose of the LS is to seed the PS with the micro-critters mentioned earlier, pods, worms, and bacteria. For my 75 G I have 200 lbs of PS, and I seeded that with a 20 lb bag of LS, much cheaper than had I gone with aragonite and/or pure LS. As for the best site for fish compatibility, I would turn you around, and point you back where you came from, SWF.com. IMO, it's the best around, and has come to be a second home for me. HTH
 

ijeh99

Member
I must admit that salt aquariums are much harder than cold or tropical aquariums. I thought I would just buy what the dealer said and that was that. I have learned that they don't tell you everything . . . one should check out the internet before setting up a salt water aquarium. So . . . I have an aquarium that I'm determined to make it work. In regards to the bristle worms - how do you know when it is time to get rid of the larger ones? How do you get rid of them? Would my damsels and camel shrimp eat them or what other fish should I consider getting? I really don't want to get rid of my crushed coral as it cost lots - but could I add living LS to it? or I could add LS and PS?
 

justlooking

Member
I saw where you said algae can rid the tank of nitrates. I currently have like NO green algae and my nitrates are on the high side, should I leave my lights on longer so I can get some more algae, could that help with the nitrates?
 

ijeh99

Member
Do not put the light on more than 11 hours...otherwise use biocycle (double the amount of what is written on the label) every time you change water.
 

fshhub

Active Member
there are many types of algae in ref keeping, and green hair algae is more of a nuiance than anything, coraline and other macro algaes are what we desire, so do not try to promote green algae growth, it is a pian to get rid of later
do you have a skimer, lr and what substrate are you using(plus how much), and mostly what size tank, and what livestock do you have in it?
one more q, how old is the tank?
 

justlooking

Member
How do you promote coraline and macroalgae? I have CC substrate, No LR or LS. Emperor 400 filter. 46bow tank. Have 2 shrimp,2 emerald crabs, about 8 hermit crabs. Fish are 2 coral catfish,1 algae blenny, 1 firefish, 2 cleaner gobies and 3 jawfish. All really small fish except the catfish.
 

dinhouse

Member
If I read his first post correctly he said that he dipped his live rock in distilled water for two hours? If this is true and he mention no salt inb the water this could be the reason that his live rock died. Two hours is a long time for aanything belonging in saltwater to be in freshwater. "ijeh99" I two made the mistake of listening to the guy at the fish store when I first started. Dont get me wrong there are probly some LFS (Local Fish Store) that are honest and knowledgable but the vast majority of them will only tell you a partial truth so that you come back and buy more of thier overpriced stuff! You are difinatly on the right track now that you are on this board there are some very knowledgable people on here. Ask as many questions as you need and be patient and your tank will be looking great in time!
 

ijeh99

Member
Okay. I was going make a reef aquarium with my 25 g but I have learned that I cannot do this for a couple of reasons. I only have CC in it and the lighting is aqua-glo 15w x 2 fluorescent bulbs. The DS told me a few things and are they true?
I do not need a skimmer for this aquarium.
If need to update my lighting fixture (roof/lighting . . . ) it would cost me over $200.
I should add 5 lbs. of LS to my existing CC (it is 2" thick).
I do not need dry/wet.
I do not need critters . . . but I could consider purchasing scarlet reef hermits.
I should buy a blue tang . . . but I don't think it would work. Any suggestions of what fish I should buy (max. of 3 fish) and currently I have 1 Talbot Damsel, 1 Chromias, 1 cleaning shrimp, 2 camelback shrimp, and 1 grey sea slug).
I should not buy percula clownfish (this is what I lost in the mirky water).
I should not purchase live rock for only fish stock aquarium.
I do not have much green algae anymore - it is turning brown - is this good?
TIA for your comments.
 

ijeh99

Member
I forgot to mention that the old LR that is dead now I suppose was put into distilled water for two hours like the LFS advised me.
I forgot one more question - what do I buy to check on the level of nitrate, calcium, etc.
I understand that I should be adding stuff to my aquarium which I haven't except for the cycle.
 

clarkiiboi

Active Member
ijeh99--first and foremost you need to buy a kit to test all your parameters, that in turn will tell you and everyone trying to help where your tank stands. Meaning if all is good or if something is off and by how much. Get a testing kit soon if you can. Have you had your water tested at the LFS? You can do that too if finances are an issue at the time. HTH
 

ijeh99

Member
I was told today by the LFS that I do not need to buy a test kit as I'm only having fish in it. Is this incorrect information from the LFS?
 

dsa_mom

Member
Not to be a smart-aleck or anything, but I think the thing you need the most is a different LFS.
On a more helpful note, yes, you still need to test the water. If you don't want to invest in testing kits right now, most LFS will test your water for free if you bring in a sample. The most important things to test for are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, this is in addition to salinity. As time goes on, you may want to test for some other things like Ca, pH, etc but you could surely leave those things for a while. Salinity is tested with a hydrometer, either the swing arm or float style and the other things can be tested with a dip stick type of test. That is the easiest for a beginner. Some may recommend a more sophisticated type of test but I think these are fine for a start. Good Luck and keep asking questions.
 

ijeh99

Member
Why is is that the biggest LFS don't have the right answers?! I have a guage for salinity test . . . but that is all they said I needed (and the answer remained the same today). I guess I will go and buy a test kit some time this week. Thx.
 
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