Need Saltwater Tank Help

[oscarfish]

Hiya all newcomer here with some desperate questions.
I currently own an Oyster Toadfish Named Grouch and when I bought him/her the pet store had no clue as to what he was and I didn't either till I got him/her home and snapped some pics to share online to get some help as to what it was.
Well it turned out to be an oyster toadfish which the Pet store was calling a LionFish (i know what a lionfish is) and I was really interested in this fish because of his adorability. Needless to say they also told me he was freshwater fish and enjoyed eating algae disks like the pleco's. Come to find out from what I have managed to gather on the Internet about Toadfishes is they are salt water fish and eat live fish and crustaceans. Unfortunately since I thought he was a freshwater fish I was keeping him in the freshwater tank. After looking at him today he looked rather ill and was starting to loose skin for lack of a better word.
Anyway I went out and got a new tank and set it up as a salt water tank. Now my main questions are these
1. What feeder fish can i get for him that won't die in the salt water (ie:guppies are freshwater, will they work)
2. What is the best way to determine the salt level in the tank, is there a recommended test for this or will the Hydrometer do that?
I really hate pet stores that sell stuff they know nothing about. Drives me batty. I hope I got him into the salt water in time to save him.
I appreciate any and all help on this greatly. Everyone else I have asked is at a loss.
Dave

 

[harlequinnut]

First let me answer your question, fresh water fish like guppies and goldfish are poor choices for feeding saltwater fish, he can develop fatty liver desease. You can try it at first to see if the fish responds to live prey but definately switch him back to salt water fish food like krill, silversides, etc.
The best way to determine the salt level in your tank is to use a refractometer but it is rather expensive so a hydrometer will have to do, preferably the glass kind. The salinity level should be at 1023-1025. But I suspect that you may have been too late to save this poor fish. Being in a fresh water tank for that long(not sure exactly how long) and then being put into a freshly mix batch of salt water right away will most likely kill it. Sorry for your horrible LFS experience.:scared: :nope:

 

[oscarfish]

Well I am hoping to save him. I have been very lucky with him so far and he seems ok today after being in for 24 hours.
What other types of cheap saltwater feeders are available as he is a bottom feeder and the only krill available here is the freeze dried stuff that floats. He needs either sinking food (won't touch the shrimp pellets or the algae disks) or live food.
Is there an online source for saltwater feeder fish?
I will be checking petsmart today (only have petsmart and a local pet store here) and if they don't have any I may have to resort to online store.
I didn't see silversides available on Saltwaterfish.com
Thanks
Dave

 

[harlequinnut]

You can try frozen krill(not the freeze dried type) or frozen silversides, or raw shrimp from seafood market. I've never seen any live saltwater feeder fish.

 

[ophiura]

Try seeing if you can use a feeding stick - or even a bamboo skewer. Put something like the krill or silversides on the tip. At the very least try, over time, to train it to eat prepared (frozen) and not live foods. This may involve a bit of a starvation tactic such as is commonly used to get lionfish off live foods.

 

[ophiura]

Also just realized this is a new tank and you MUST check your water quality frequently as the tank will cycle...and cycle hard with a big eater in there...you may need to do frequent water changes, and also be prepared to cut back significantly on feeding.

 

[oscarfish]

Hiya,
Thanks for all the tips guys. I am aclimating him right now slowly and he is doing fine now, his color has already started to return and he is more active again. Although they are not very active fish to begin with but he seems much much happier now.
I am hoping I got him in the saltwater in time to at least give him a fighting chance.
I did pick up some frozen krill today at petsmart, wow that stuffs expensive. Hope it sinks and doesn't float. I won't feed him for a day or two to wait till he gets a bit more adjusted to the new tank.
Got Crushed Coral for the substrate and a tank decoration for him. All in all this bit of information that the LFS didn't know cost me around 300 dollars the past 20 hours. At least I will give the little adorable sucker a fighting chance now instead of just saying to hell with it and letting him die.
I have a powerfilter will that suffice for saltwater or will I need a saltwater specific filter??
This is my fist salty tank and have only been doing freshwater before that.
Thanks again guys you may have helped save my Grouch Fish.
See attached photo of The Grouch in his freshwater tank, I'll take more photos once his new tank is settled.

 

[unleashed]

after alot of reading researching and emailing I finally got an answer to that one question we all want answers to what salt water feeder fish can i purchase.here our anser this was a letter response i received;
Dear Unleashed,
Thank you for your email. We apologize we do not offer feeder fish at this time, though you may try using black mollys to feed your Volitan Lion. Black Mollies can be acclimated into a saltwater aquarium and will survive for some time in the aquarium. This will make for a great feeder fish.
remember these are brackish fish and can be acclimated to salt or fresh water

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally posted by unleashed
after alot of reading researching and emailing I finally got an answer to that one question we all want answers to what salt water feeder fish can i purchase.here our anser this was a letter response i received;
Dear Unleashed,
Thank you for your email. We apologize we do not offer feeder fish at this time, though you may try using black mollys to feed your Volitan Lion. Black Mollies can be acclimated into a saltwater aquarium and will survive for some time in the aquarium. This will make for a great feeder fish.
remember these are brackish fish and can be acclimated to salt or fresh water
I agree with what you were told. As a side note, I originally tried mollies in September of 2004 when my lion when on his hunger strike due to the drastically low salinity (a problem which was unknown to me for quite some time). Well, he never ate them and still lives quite peacefully with them to this day, lol. I never got around to taking them out because they seemed happy in the tank and they were not harming anyone or taking up any serious space. They live peacefully and are not picked on or harrassed by anyone (including my ever-growing volitan lion and striped puffer, as well as my arc eye hawk.)
Anyways, lions usually will eat mollies and they are a lot less fatty than goldfish and rosies. They are probably the only feeder I would use in a saltwater aquarium.

 

[lion_crazz]

To answer your original question oscarfish, the best way to measure and check specific gravity is with a refractometer. They cost $50, and are 100% accurate. Hydrometers are usually inaccurate.

 

[harlequinnut]

It's a little hard to see in that picture, can you provide another picture of what a mollie looks like. Are they available at a LFS in the freshwater section?

 

[unleashed]

well i hope to god mine eats them becuase i had to order 50 of the things to get a bulk pricing lol...but if not at least i will have enough tanks to keep them in
.how big is your lion? I just purchased a new lion aprox 10 inches.hes already a great eater. i wont be using mollys as main diet basicly a natural snack.if none of my fish eat them i guess ill have a couple molly tanks lol

 

[lion_crazz]

Sorry for the blurry pic. I am still figuring out how to use my camera (I just got it). My lights are out on my tank right now, so I really cannot get a shot of them now. I will pose one or two tomorrow for you. However, there are actually two of them in that picture (a black and a yellow one). Those in the picture are balloon mollies. There are several types of mollies, such as sailfin mollies, which are more elongated, and several others. They are available in most stores that carry freshwater/brackish fish.
Another benefit of the mollies being in the tank is that when they mate (they are live bearers), their young is a good snack for my lion, puffer, and hawk to feed on during days when the fish do not get fed. They mate quite often in saltwater aquariums, however, I think mine have given up on the idea of mating. They sometimes bicker back and forth like a married couple would, lol. As weird or pathetic as it sounds that I have mollies residing in my tank,mine are actually kind of interesting fish.
My lion is about 7" now. I got him a little under a year ago at about 2". Good luck with yours!

 

[unleashed]

I had order plain old black mollys the cheepest of them all also smaller than the sailfins.I had a lion in my 125 gal tank for ever a 1 1/2 yrs im not sure exaclty what happened to him whether stress from larger fish or illness he just stopped eating it took a month in a qt of him not eating before he passed away.this time I have done alot more intensive research on them so I hope it all fairs well this time too so far its off to a good start knock on wood.I found a very informative web site on lions of all types ...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-1...ture/index.htm
this will answer just about any question any one has about lions

 

[unleashed]

back to your toadfish
this is what i have found so far
Oyster toadfish are omnivorous and will feed on crustaceans, mollusks, amphipods, squid and juvenile fish including silversides, alewives, menhaden, smelt and winter flounder. The toadfish is an "ambush" feeder, hiding on the bottom and waiting for prey to approach, then snapping aggressively. It is not often taken as a gamefish because of its appearance and the difficulty it presents in handling it, but sometimes is sold as an aquarium species.
Family: Batrachoididae
Species: Opsanus tau (Linnaeus, 1766)
Range: western Atlantic from Maine to the West Indies.
Habitat: found on mud, oyster shell, rock, along sand bottoms and garbage dumps in shallow water.
Food: preys on crustaceans, mollusks, fish, and just about anything else it can get its mouth on.
Characters useful in identification: bulging eyes; fleshy flaps (whiskers) on cheeks and jaws; broad, flat heads.
Color: skin is yellowish to brown with dark brown oblique bars and brown reticulations.
Reproduction: toadfish are known for producing vocalizations, accomplished by rapid muscle contractions. The male produces a "foghorn" sound which may attract females to a nesting site. The spawning season lasts from April to October.
Maximum size: 38 cm TL (1.25 ft.)
Other interesting tidbits:
The toadfish has no commercial value and is generally considered a nuisance due to its powerful and potentially dangerous jaws which make it tough to remove from fishing hooks; however, it is edible.
It can survive out of water for extended periods.
This fish is also plays an important role in medical research.
NASA and the Marine Biological Lab in Woods Hole just completed experiments in which toadfish were sent to space.
def an interesting fish

 

[unleashed]

Originally posted by Harlequinnut
It's a little hard to see in that picture, can you provide another picture of what a mollie looks like. Are they available at a LFS in the freshwater section?
fresh water or brackish but mostly fresh

 

[unleashed]

black molly

 

[oscarfish]

Hiya Unleashed,
Looks like we both found the same website for information on the toadfish. I remember that one because of the NASA study.
Thanks also for the Mollie suggestion.
I am up to aclimating him right now to about 20 ppt salinity. I figure I will wait another 24 hours or so before going any higher for now just to give him some him time.
He's not touching the Frozen krill that i put in earlier this evening but may be due to the aclimitizing.
I am praying he survives he is just an adorable Oscar the Grouch looking fish and want to keep him for many years. I am already planning on tankmates (I primarily due freshwater but looks as if I will be doing salty now too) once the tank is well established and I have everything I need.
You guys have been a great help and I appreciate it very very much.
One last thing, will the whisper power filter be ok in a salty tank or will I need special filters for salt tanks??

 

[harlequinnut]

Whay size is the tank you are keeping him in?

 

[oscarfish]

For now a 29 Gallon tank with Crushed Coral for a substrate. Thats just until we can afford the 150 gallon tank in May, then we'll do that one in saltawater.