Need some expert advice on overflows.

jester

Member
Just picked up a 160. Now it doesn't have overflows drilled in, so i'm going to have to do that box thing (sigh). So, here are my questions.
1.) I would like to get 2, 1 for each rear corner. Is this a good idea?
1a.) If I have them drilled, will effect the structual integrity of the bottom? And what do I do for the divider? Do I need one?
2.) What kind of flow rate am I looking for?
3.) Is there any brand/type better than the other?
4.) How do you keep them quiet?
5.) Return pump size?
Thanks for the answers in advance guys and gals.
Tim
 
G

glazer

Guest
Jester,
Well, I don't consider myself to be an expert by ANY means on overflows... so this is just my opinion based on what I have had to deal with.
First off, isn't there ANY way at all you can have your tank drilled... there simply is no other way any better. I wished I could remember the name of the place, but there is a huge glass store in Northbrook that drilled a 75 for me about ten years ago. They were really cool about it... They just made a point to be sure I understood that they have drilled glass many many times but if there was any prob whatsoever with drilling my tank they just couldn't be responsible. They did a great job.
Anyway... if this is not possible. I think the best overflows made are by Lifereef... DO NOT get a CPR overflow!
Also in my opinion Mag drive pumps are the only way to go as far as your return.
And as far as keeping them quiet... if there is a prob, I just posted a link in the "Loud overflow" thread that shows a really simple and great fix for them.
I will let someone else respond with specs for gph and so as I have not dealt with a larger tank for almost five years and not with a sump set up for over two.
Broomer be the number man anyway!!... hehehe
 

krusk

Member
If your tank is tempered glass. DO NOT DRILL
Most of hopyist prefered drilled tank.
2 Over flow is a very good idea, 1 on each side.
If you going with the OverFlows
Most of ppl used(I have both of them)
LifeReef Dual Prefitler Overflow rated 1400 GPH
CPR CS102 Overflow rated 1400 GPH
They both are good overflow unit.
Cost:
- LifeReef $148 (shiped)
- CPR $114 (shiped)
Performance:
- Great, no complain on both units
Space required:
- LifeReef Outside space required 4". Inside took about 4.5" from the inside wall of the tank to the front of the unit. The inside box is 7" in height.
- CPR CS 102 Outside space required 5.5". Inside took about 3" from the inside wall of the tank to the front of the unit. The inside box is 3.5" in height.
Quite:
- yes, they are quite.
Prime:
- LifeReef is harder. I have used the air tube goes through the U-Tube and suck out the air x 2 U-Tube but mouth or power head(Recommend by Broomer). Take the air tube out after prime of course.
- CS120 is alot easier. Use mouth to suck out the air from the black tube come with the unit. Need something to stop the black tube to prevent air coming back in.
Chance of Lost simphone:
The chance are very slime, close to 0.0001%
I have try purposely make them to lose simphone.
I have never successed. I only have successed to make the LifeReef lost simphon on 1 U-Tube. I have Mag Drive 9.5 as the return pump on the LifeReef overflow. The unit still run on 1 U-Tube. Seen my 9.5 Pump at the head is about 700 GPH, the unit keep going with out any problem. It may cause the tank to over flow I some one using a more powerful return pump. (ex > 700 GPH at the head)
I have tested the CS102 with Mag 9.5(with 5' head) and 2 RIO 400. (with 2' head). I have try to turned on/off each power heads simultaneously and/or at the same time etc. The CS120 still going with out losing simphone.
I do not know why the previous post strongly agains the CPR unit. May be, he had the older model etc...
I voted for CPR for the following reasons:
Cheaper. :)
Easier to prime.
Take less tank space. (more space for fish to swim)
If you deciced to go with the overflow. And with CS102 (2 of them)
I would get Mag Drive 12 and Mag Drive 18 as the return pump.
will effect the structual integrity of the bottom <hr></blockquote> I have not see/heard of any reported about the lost of structure integrity of the tank.
 

richard rendos

Active Member
I would say CPR. I don't know why glazer doesn't like them, but I have used several different brands and found CPR to be the best for ease of use, quality construction, and quietness.
Return pump...mag drives for submersible, Iwaki for inline.
 
G

glazer

Guest
Richard,
Like I said, no expert here by any means... was just relaying nothing but experience I had. I had two different CPR overflows and seemed to always have probs with them, the main thing being lost syphons.... On three occasions during power outages either due to storms or building maintenance the CPR units lost there syphons and I flooded my place and um, the downstairs neighbor... this was not a happy thing I assure you. I went with the Lifereef brand and never ever had a prob with it. So you can understand my ill feelings toward CPR. I am sure there are thousands of peeps using the CPR's for years with no probs...same with cars, fridges, 'puters, no what I mean.
And the Mag pumps... well IMO and experience they are nothing short of bullet-proof and apparently immortal....lol I have one still that I currently use on a FW tank and I bought if prolly 20 years ago!
 

broomer5

Active Member
Hi Tim
160 gallon tank - sounds nice.
What are your plans for this tank ?
The reason I ask, it may make it easier regarding your choices here, if we knew what you plan to keep in this new tank.
Do you want your overflow/sump/return pump to move a lot of water, or are you planning to supplement water circulation in the tank with powerheads.
Are you going to use a wet/dry filter in the sump ?
Is the 160 going to be a reef tank or a FO/FOWLR ?
How deep is your wallet - tight budget or sky's the limit ?
Are you a DIY kind of guy, or are you looking for a manufactured package for all pieces/parts ?
I use the LifeReef 1400 gph on my 75 tank - and as Anthem mentioned - it's worked flawlessly since I got it in January.
I've never used the CPR units, so I can't really comment on them.
Couple things to consider;
First and foremost - insure that your overflow can handle the return pump's rated flowrate at the appropriate installed head pressure.
You don't want to end up with water on the floor and not in your sump.
Don't oversize a U Tube overflow compared to the return pump. If there is not enough flow to the tank and through the U Tube, small air bubbles may become entrapped in the upper curve of the tube, and form a larger and larger air pocket, and eventually you may lose siphon. You need the flowrate high enough to force these little bubbles on through the U Tube.
CPR has overcome this potential problem by allowing you to connect a powerhead to the top portion of the siphon if necessary.
Again as mentioned, most classic U Tube designs do not offer this feature.
If you post back - I'm sure you'll get some more help regarding selecting the "right" equipment.
At least it will seem "right" to those that reply.
What's "right" for you is what counts on your new 160 ;)
 

rockface

Member
I've got 2 mag 9.5 pumps that I'm running as external return pumps on a 300. The box says you can do this. Do they run hotter this way? I think I'm getting about 750 gph out of each pump @ 5ft of head, maybe a little more. The tank is drilled with (2) 1 inch overflows. (2) 1/2 returns. This set up seems to create a lot of water movement in the tank. I run a mag 7 inside the tank on a two foot spray bar mounted about 6 inches off the bottom, for more water movement. I've got holes drilled in about every direction.
 

jester

Member
Hey broomer,
Looking at a reef tank. I'm for sure a diy guy. I've already started building a cap and stand out of oak and 4x4's (picts to come in a week or so).
As for the sump, I'm thinkling about a 30 ga breeder sectioned of so I can have a 10 ga refugium, and 20 gallon filter area.
As for the wet/dry, I think Im going to get another emporer 400 and run 2 of them. If anything just for stability and media filters (with out bio wheels eventually). Im really happy with them.
The tank came with 2 magnum 350 canisters, but I don't know about them and I want to stick with I know works good.
I have enough (150lbs) new southdown, and 100 lbs already live. I have 15 lbs of live rock, but plan on adding about 60 more.
Skimmer upgrade is going to be a Berlin.
BTW, don't you have an extra one with a pump? What do you wnat for it?
I don't think my Seaclone is up for the job(hehe)
Light plan is 3 175 watt MH 10k with 2 antic suppliments.
Does this help?
Oh as for budget, as little as possible as long as it's right. ;)
 

jester

Member
Don't want this to get lost in the middle.
I still need to know apx what kind of flow rate is avg for a tank of this size? How often should I turn the water over into the sump?
If a mag pump is no good with head, what is?
Is a cs102 enough, would 2 be too much?
if it is, then maybee 2- 700's.
I still need help with this. I've never had a sump(but can) and never a tank this big(but do).
 

broomer5

Active Member
Hi Jester,
Opinions vary widely, but I'd say a general rule of thumb is having a turnover flowrate 5 to 10 times your tank water volume.
In your case with the new 160.... around 1600 gph. This turnover is normally the amount of water moving through the sump/pump/tank/overflow COMBINED with the internal flow from any powerheads placed within the tank.
Some people go higher, some go lower.
If you go higher flow through the sump system, you may not need as many powerheads in your reef tank.
If you go lower than this, you may find you need to add powerheads for enough internal tankwater circulation.
I'd say anywhere from 8 to 12 turns per hour is more common.
You may want to think about the sump volume in relation to the flowrate returning to your tank too, and how your choice of overflow can affect the way the whole thing performs.
You must allow some room in sump for the water to drain back down when the pump is turned off, or when you lose power. The sump must be able to handle this amount of water, or it will overflow under the stand.
I'm not sure how much you've looked into this, but you should drill a hole in the spraybar just under the normal tankwater level. When the power is off, the tankwater will begin to drain (siphon) back down to the sump. It will continue to drain until the spraybar sucks in some air. It sucks in air as the water just begins to drop down to this drilled hole.
Then you hear and see it break siphon, and no more water drains down to the sump.
This drilled hole(s) is even more important if you have your return spray fitting deep down into the tank.
The other thing to think about is if the sump's too small, and you have a large tank in comparison, and a large return pump ... when you turn on the pump it will begin shooting water up to the tank, and the sump level will drop.
The overflow must start seeing this tankwater rise, and have water start draining back down to the sump, BEFORE the sump level goes down too far and the pump starts sucking air.
I don't have nor have I ever set up 160 gallon tank, overflow, sump and return pump, so I don't have direct experience.
If I had your set up and was going for a reef tank, I'd want a lot of flow as I have on my 75 tank.
It would cost a few bucks to set up, but I'd consider having (2) 1400 gph LifeReef Prefilter/Overflows, and (2) MagDrive 12's, each putting out around 1100 gph at say 4' head.
Run one pump 24/7 giving you close to 7 turns per hour.
Set the other pump on a timer and vary it's run time.
With both pumps running - you'd be around 13-14 turns per hour.
I'd get a larger sump too with this set up as well.
That would be a nice set up in my opinion, that you could play around with.
Of course - this is my view and what I might do in your shoes. Or not, I haven't looked into a 160 before. But I do like a lot of water moving through my tank and equipment ... and am not particularly fond of powerheads in the tank.
My approach is not the norm.
Lastly, many people would not want that much flow, and would choose lower flow return pump(s) and overflow(s) to set their system up the way they wanted.
If you're already aware of this stuff, then I apologize for such a long windy reply.
See ya ;)
 

jester

Member
I too like a lot of water flow.
2 cs102's it is.
I think your right in that a 30 is not going to be enough, so i picked up a standard 55.
As for the pumps, since my head is about 5 1/2 feet, i think I shoud go for the mag 18. That will give me a littl over 1000 each, and with a ball valve on the overflows, I think i can match them.
No comment on you skimmer huh?
Thanks for you help broomer5 :D
 

broomer5

Active Member
Think I'll hang on to the skimmer(s) for awhile longer.
I'll post them in the classified forum if I decide to part with them.
Good luck on your new tank !
 
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