new achilles tang, not eating

[jennypoo]

four days ago i purchased an achilles tang and properly acclimated it into my quarantine/hospital tank, the only other fish in the tank is a small damsel, the achilles is much larger(probably about 5 inches or so). the tanks specs are fine, and it is running a copper level of around .2, i am also on my third day of a maracyn 2 treatment, since the fish did seem to develop a small white patch in the middle of it's body, which has since gone away. overall the fish looks beautiful now, but still has not eaten, nor even seems interested in the food offered, i have yet to try live food, simply due to the complete lack of interest in the frozen varieties tried, the tang was also completely uninterested in vegetation as well. it does not look skinny...yet, but i don't want to lose this fish due to starvation, i am going to continue the maracyn 2 treatment, the hyposalinity, the fairly regular temperature (80-82), and maintain the copper level, but everything about the fish seems perfect now, swimming normal, coloration, breathing, etc. can anyone offer any advice other than to wait this one out? i know the fish is far from emaciated now, but i'd just assume not get to that point.

 

[beth]

Why are you using copper and hyposalinity?? Did the fish have ick? If not, then don't treat it for ick.
Clean out the copper, and raise the SG to normal parimeters over the next few days. Lower the temp to around 78 over the next few days too.
Buy rommaine lettuce and stick it on a lettuce clip, changing the lettuce out every 12 hours or so. Now, rommaine is not necessarily the best nutritionally for the this fish, but it might getting him into the grazing mood. Don't be discouraged if it takes a day or 2 before the fish starts nipping at the lettuce.
How is the fish behaving otherwise? I wouldn't be suprized if the white spot you saw was a reaction to all the meds and treatments you are using.
Hyposalinity? You have to acclimate fish to hypo over the course of 2 days. How did you do that when introducing this fish?

 

[jennypoo]

ok ok ok,
let me rephrase that, i am not using "hyposalinity" per se, acutally i am just running it at 1.020, far from hypo standards i guess, but this, in addition to the .2ppm copper level is how i have always run my hospital/quarantine tank. now granted copper has it's drawbacks, and i did not know for certain that the fish had ich, but it did have some white cloudy patches on it's fins initially, now those have since gone away in addition to the spots, but upon seeing those things on it, was when i used the maracyn-2 and the copper, since i have almost always used copper in conjunction with antibiotic and antifungal meds, to prevent secondary infections (or is this b.s.?, or over medicating?) now as far as the romaine, i have a bit of experience in tang diet, and have been leaving a leaf in there for about 2/3 of the daylight period of the tank, until i can feed the fish something better that will not be wasted since day 1, now upon earlier inspection of the fish this evening, it does seem to have begun pecking, though at nothing more than the two rocks in there, but surely a good sign, now i have one more day of the maracyn-2 treatment, and after that i think i will reduce the med level through carbon and water changes, adjust the tank specs slowly to match my display tank's, and i am hoping to be ok. i have always read that in addition to the copper level of .2, a temperature of 80-82 is also an ideal range for an HT? please tell me where i am wrong, cause i have done my research and hope that i have not greatly misunderstood these things. is the brief quarantine period of copper exposure going to necessarily cause me HLLE problems? i went through a little of that with my purple tang, though that was in my treating my then FO display tank a year ago, yet none of the other four tangs showed any signs of it, and purple does seem to be improving slowly. is running an only slightly low salinity pointless at reducing/preventing parasites? and isn't a warm temp better also for prevention/treatment, or is it just temp consistency that matters? the fish's behavior seems to be normal now, and really has seemed normal since day one. no scratching, rapid breathing, lethargy, erratic swimming or anything like that.
love to hear any thoughts on the matter

 

[beth]

Well, the bottom line is, that you will always get different opinions about how to do anything in this hobby. However, I find that doing these treatments to a newly acquired fish is pointless in terms of trying to prevent fish disease as well as very stressful.
Think about it. Lets say you got this fish from the LFS, or wherever, and the SG level in the source tank was 1.023. Now, you QT is 1.020. You acclimate your fish, say for an hour, before putting your fish in your QT. Well, an hour is not long enough for a fish to get used to this significant drop in SG. And, truthfully, it serves no purpose. Hyposalinity must be at 1.009 to be effective for ick, anything more than that serves no purpose. SG at 1.020 is not going to get rid of any other parasites either. Hyposalinity is a treatment for ick, and ick only. SG must be at 1.009. If you want to address parasites generally on a new fish, in this manner, then go with a FW dip before introducing into your QT.
The same goes for the higher temp. The new fish is coming from a 78deg temp and jumping to a 82. What for? 82deg is not going to kill off any parasite. It will, however, reduce the o2 level in your QT. More stress.
As for medicating. Pointless. Why are you treating a fish for both parasites and bacterial when your fish is not sick? Copper is a toxic medication and can do permanent harm to fish tissues. It is the better of 2 evils, IMO, when it comes to fish parasite treatment---when a fish is actually sick with a disease that can be addressed using copper...not all parasites, BTW, are effectively treated by copper. Additionally, using antibiotics for no reason only results in making bacteria less vulnerable to the drug when you ACTUALLY need it—when a fish has a bacterial infection.
Hopefully, when you purchase fish, you are doing so from a reliable source and don't need to assume that your fish is sick or going to get sick as soon as you get it. The treatment for new fish, is the QT itself. The QT should be a quality temporary home for your new fish where it can get care and treatment, only if it needs it, before it enters your main tank.
If you are especially worried about diseases, add a UV sterilizer to your QT. Feed your fish garlic soaked fish in the QT. Garlic as parasitic and bacteria preventive qualities.

 

[jennypoo]

thank you for the information on SG and temperature, i guess my slightly low SG is pointless then and quite possibly stupid, and the temperature possibly as well. i did not think about the 02 levels in regards to temperature, or the ineffectiveness of a low SG against anything but ich. i am kinda new with the QT, it was actually always an HT that became a too little too late scenario in the past. perhaps i am medicating needlessly here, but what are your thoughts on using copper in addition to an antibiotic or an antifungal, as in to treat a sick fish? or is it better to treat just for what the fish has, and not risk copper's side effects or a more immune strain of bacteria? either way these are not my current scenario. on the topic of FW dips, i have found those most effective, but what are the risks for those? i always made sure FW temp was the same as the tank water and did it briefly, but i have found conflicting information with regards to the amount of time the dip should be. this method is i feel one of the best preventions, with no long term effects. BTW the fish is beginning to eat now, and seems fine. thanks for the information

 

[fred the fish guy]

Im glad to hear that the tang is pecking, that is a releif to me because of the many fish i have had starve. My suggestion is even if it is normally pecking(starting to eat) still go out and buy "Coral Food with Appetite Stimulant." It is made by Ultra Life Reef Products and is a life saver. Besides the extra algae growth because of the coral food it did a miracle on getting my black tang to eat. What a releif!!!! It has something in it even if your fish will not eat that will be absorbed through the fishes gills that will give it some type of nurishment.If it starts eating regularly if you try the product be sure to let me know.I hope it works for you like it did for me!!

 

[seaguru]

Hello All,
These postings have been by far the best discussion on quarantine I have found on the entire web.
I too have used the Copper/M2 combo medication approach in the past with great success, but after reading these postings will try the Osmotic Shock Therapy (OST)/Hyposalinity approach next time, especially if I am Qing tangs.
I found this discussion with a subject search on "quarantine"... I suggest the moderator somehow make this available currently via a new posting/title. The information offered here is invaluable to those with little or no experience in Quarantine.
Thank-you, Joe.

 

[tankstolove]

I enjoyed reading this thread. I agree in this hobby there are differing procedures, and experience. Practice that works for some, doesn't work for others.
I agree that copper based quarantine tanks is over doing it. This treatment is reservied for serious diseases and fast acting treatment. Not a preventative medicine, it's a fast acting last resort cure.
Fresh water medicated dips are indeed an excellent practice and are used by most distribution, rearing, and collection, holding facilities. They cannot afford an outbreak of any kind in there facilities. I as well cannot afford to trust my friendly dealer that he has disease free specimens. You should be preventative and practice dips before adding fish to your quarantine tank. For those that don't have quarantine tanks, it's the only way to lessen the chance of an outbreak in the main show tank. Fresh water dips can successfully kill and reduce crustaceans, worms, necrotic tissue, protozoan, and even more than that I just am drawing a blank. They also rinse the fish of all transport chemicals that may have been used, and pollutants that the fish may have secreted as a defense to the stress of shipment. They come from the ocean in most cases and the ocean is full of diseases, most collected fish from the ocean carry some sort of disease, even if it stays dormant in the fish for all of it's life. Fresh water dips are the best preventative form of treatment possible.
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My dips
The dip should be about 75 degrees in temp it is best to use ro/di water. If not available than add de chlorinated water(although a ro/di is one of the best investments you can make when keeping salt water aquariums) Buff the ph to about 8.0 with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Add methylene blue a very conservative yet effective medication killing amyloodininium, gill and skin flukes, funguses, and ich among many other external parasites. The water needs to be dark blue, it is hard to overdose, so generosity doesn't hurt with this product. This mix is non-toxic and very mild safe for even scale less fish. I dip for 2-3 minutes as a rule unless the fish begins to thrash which have heard of but yet to see after 1000s of these dips.
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I can not afford to have a diseased fish added to my show tank and I don't want to hope and depend on good luck to prevent disease.
I agree that romaine is an awesome was to get many new inhabitants to eat. I blanch mine to make it soft to eat and in quarantine I also use a lettuce clip. In a show tank I add to the rockwork trying to make it look as natural as I can. Great success.
I also add a UV to my show tank to prevent any out breaks by killing free swimming deseases.
Good Keeping.

 

[tankstolove]

Dips are used to prevent. I quarantine as well with every specimen. Though with out the dip, the fish may and will go through the quarantine with no symptoms. Prevention is allways the best cure. I use methylene blue because it is less toxic then food grade formaldahyde and copper. Which many use and I feel unnessesary for preventative care. Fish can get through quarantine alone. Though only internal deseases get through both dips and quarantine. For those that don't have quarantine tanks, it is the cheepest most effective practice. I don't beleive that dips are a stressful as many think. I often watch the fish in the dip and rarely even notice the fish react to the dip in any way. Will behave in a normal manner. I have never done it though Robert Fenner has dipped many species up to 10 minutes, with no negative reaction. He wrote that conscientious fish keeper book. I don't know if he talks about dipping in the read, although I know he practices it himself. I beleive formiline dips are effective as well though are second to fresh water dips in my book.

 

[seaguru]

Hello,
Wow, the posts/discussion here is awesome! Again I say to the moderator whoever you are... please re-post this complete thread/topic under a more "catchy" title so others may learn. Say: Quarantine Testimonials or something of that nature. Just hate to see such good info not get viewed by ALL serious hobbyists.
O.K. I'll step down from the podium now.
Thanks again to all who posted under this topic.
p.s. I will have my own testimonial in about a month when my current quarantine project is complete... Joe.

 

[seaguru]

Hello,
O.K. Terry B. I need to make a decision about dipping... could you plese give me the details concerning the formalin dip. What product/med do you buy/use, at what concentration, how long is the dip for, etc.
Boy am I ever glad I found this forum! Thanks to all... Joe.

 

[seaguru]

We lost the follow-on posts made the 1st two weeks in June... so I searched and found your info on the subject Terry B. essentially 20 drops or 1 ml per gallon for 45 minutes aerated. I will only use the dip if say my new Flame Angel shows symptoms of Brooklynella or some other pathogen which hyposalinity will not take care of. Thanks anyway. Joe.

 

[wisconsin reef]

what you are doing is fine but there is a safer way i have use garlic mix with brineshimp to cure ick with great results and the fish love it and it harm your tank inhabints so give it a try it also clear it up as fast as two days good luck