New and need advice

[rispa]

I recently obtained a 18 gallon bow front aquarium from a guy who no longer had time for his animals. I did not get to see the tank set up because he had already put the fish in a container, the live rock in a bucket with some water and the rest of the water was emptied out. There are four Kuda seahorses, going on his word for the species, that are 6 months old. There is also a skunk shrimp, a red hermit crab, a lawnmower blenny who is warming up to me, a very shy watchman goby, and a star fish that I'm guessing is brittle star. There was another fish that was in the bucket with the live rock, but he didn't make it. The tank was covered with algae so my friend and I did a lot of cleaning. I underestimated water amounts, not expecting the guy to have already emptied out the tank, so everyone had to live in about 7 gallons with the filter balanced in a bowl. The guy was feeding them frozen brine shrimp, but I don't know if it was enriched or not, although I'm thinking not since they look malnourished based on information I've found while researching. The algae on rocks game back quickly and is spreading fast. I got this tank last Wednesday and two days later the rocks and corals were all bright green and a darkish red and a fuzzy brown and fuzzy green. Two days ago I got some snails and two more hermit crabs. The Turbo snail seems to be the most efficient, but it still seems like the algae may still be out of control. Any suggestions on algae control would be much appreciated. A few of the seahorses look like they've gotten algae on them and I'm a little concerned.
Also one of the males appeared to be pooping last night, but he looked uncomfortable and kept rubbing the rocks and the poop didn't appear normal compared to what I researched. He seems fine now, but he was making my sister and I nervous last night. One of the females is really concerning me. She will go around the entire tank a couple times, scanning rocks and the ground for food before she'll eat anything and she doesn't seem to be eating much. I'm currently feeding them Hakari brand frozen mysis which I thaw according to a suggestion from another forum. I take some salt water and refrigerate it, then add the frozen cube and put the water and cube back in the fridge to thaw, then I bring every thing to room temperature and feed it to them. All the food get's eaten, even the mysis that are on the filter are eaten by the next feeding. Everyone else seems fine with the food, pursuing it and grabbing it and sitting near the filter or on the filter and reaching over to eat the piece they want. The same female also has shiny spots which I'm not sure about. Currently she's wrapped up around a spot where a rock meets the side of the tank, curled around that spot with her tail and body. She's facing the ground. I've seen some of the seahorses scratching against rocks, but they haven't been doing that lately. I don't think they've reached sexual maturity based on research and appearance. The two males are light colored with dark spots on their backs. One female is a dark brown, but her stomach has become lighter. The other female is a lighter brown with some spots that remind me of scales. The water should be fine since I purchased premixed water from my LFS. The tank came with a heater, so the temperature should be good. I have not taken water in to a store to get it tested yet, but I'm planning on doing that either today or tomorrow and also asking for some more advice. Meanwhile I would appreciate any advice that you guys can offer. I'll try to provide pictures later, but until my sister gets home I do not have a camera. I would really like this aquarium to be a happy experience since it's my mom's Mother's day gift and she loves seahorses.
Thanks in advance.

 

[flower]

Wow you picked the hardest critter to keep. I don’t know much about them and I’m sure the more knowledgeable will chime in.
Do you have a master test kit so you can test your water? Also I think sea horses like it on the cool side so the heater may not be a good thing, what is the temp at? You need to post the following information so folks can help you.
Test:
SG with hydrometer on the temperature, the sticky one on the side will do.
PH
Alkalinity or KH ( which one depends on the test kit)
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Calcium
Phosphates
Getting water from the fish store does not mean everything is right for the type of critter, the algae bloom is normal for a new tank. The scrubbing changed things to new.
Oh and WELCOME to the site, you came to the right place for some help, you just kind of jumped into the hobby so it will be a bumpy ride at first...hang in there.

 

[dc2mlbsm]

Also you have to many seahorses/fish in that size tank

 

[rispa]

The heater is set on a line between 75 and 79. I haven't had the water tested yet and I don't have my own kit yet. I have one test that I can do that I got when I got the snails and hermit crabs. I'll pull it out and try using it and post the results.
I've been wanting to get fish again for a while, but I wanted to get a large aquarium and do freshwater. This was kind of a compromise and I got the entire set up for $140, so my mom agreed.
Based on research this tank size would be good for one pair of seahorses, but seahorses require an established aquarium which takes some time, so I'm still trying to figure out what to do about the tank size. If you have any suggestions for keeping them healthy in this tank, at least for right now, I'd appreciate it.
Also can you explain how an algae bloom happens, I'm curious about it.

 

[dc2mlbsm]

Well many things can leed to an algae bloom...We need to see your parameters and maybe pics to see what kind of algae u have...I believe it's either cyano or diatoms. Also what kind of water do you use tap water, distilled, RO, or RO/DI?

 

[rispa]

I haven't made my own water, I bought premixed water at my LFS, so i don't know the type of water they used. I have a hydrometer I'm getting ready to use, the only thing is that it says to "Rinse hydrometer with fresh water before using" and I'm not sure if they are referring to spring water, or unused saltwater. I have an Instant Ocean Hydrometer by Marineland Labs. At this point I haven't opened it, so if you guys don't think this is a good one I can return it.

 

[dc2mlbsm]

Well hydrometers are not reliable. I would recommend you to get a refractometer. Also u need the test kits Flower mentioned so you can test your water parameters

 

[rispa]

Okay, I'll go return this and look into getting the refractometer and test kit. Can you give any recommendations on types and brands? Also should I bring some water to have them test?

 

[dc2mlbsm]

Well I use an API test kit, Yes you should take some water so they can test it for you. Right now just try to get the PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate tests later on you can get the rest.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by dc2mlbsm
http:///forum/post/3293960
Well I use an API test kit, Yes you should take some water so they can test it for you. Right now just try to get the PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate tests later on you can get the rest.

Do get at least the above tests..
Most LFS do not carry refractometers, not in my area anyway, you would have to order one online. the Instant Ocean one has to cure for 24 hours before use ...for right now a cheap and easy thing is a red sea hydrometer..rinse it under the tap water and just use it, it has a safe zone marked right on it. It is just a temporary fix but good enough for now and it is cheap.
The only time you really need the accuracy of a refractomenter is when you are doing something like hypo. It is a good thing to have and I suggest you get one, but for the here and now…get a red sea hydrometer. It is easy to read and will give enough information, then you to move on to the more important issues.
You really need your own test kit, and get one of those ammonia badges so you can check things at a glance. Have some emergency saltwater all mixed and ready to go in case you have to do an emergency water change.
Go to the fish store and take some water to test with you, then buy your own test kit while you are there. Go to the section at this site on sea horses and read the information there, that should help you decide what to do next.

 

[rispa]

Thank you very much. I may not be able to get to the store today, but tomorrow I'll definitely be able to. I was able to take some pictures though.
Two shots of our aquarium.

The little lady that I'm worried about is below.

One of my stallions, he's the biggest out of the bunch and a great eater.

My picture of the other male didn't come out as well, but he is basically the same, except a little smaller and his spots are darker. Next up is my other female.

If anything looks of please tell me. Also if anyone had advice on taking better pictures, I'd appreciate that too.

 

[dc2mlbsm]

well it looks like you have green cyano in your tank, Do you have any powerheads?...For the seahorses we have a special forum made just for them I believe you can go post your seahorse pics over there and get better help

( I don't know much about them)

 

[rispa]

Thank you, I just got back from an errand, I'll continue looking for the forum now.

 

[rispa]

That forum doesn't seem very active. Turns out I'm able to get to the store today and will be heading over there. Another thing I was thinking about buying is a bottle of live coepods? I think that's what they were. I was looking at the Scooter Blenny because I loved chasing them in Florida beaches and the guy said that I'd need to add them once a week. I'm not planning on getting the Blenny, but I thought that adding the coepods couldn't hurt and would probably be beneficial. If there's anything else you guys think I should get, please let me know.

 

[novahobbies]

Rispa,
Welcome to the hobby! You certainly decided to dive in here.....you have a tank that most people consider to be a "nano," which has its own set of difficulties, and you chose a fish species that can be difficult at times to care for. I’m going to respond to some of the basic algae questions here, and I’ll address your seahorse concerns in the seahorse forum….just to make things interesting.

I understand the fascination with seahorses....believe me. I'm going to say you have an uphill battle to fight right now, but I believe it's something we can help you fix! Let's get started:
First, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it's not an 18 gallon tank, but rather a 16 gallon bowfront. These are pretty standard ***** tanks made by All Glass Aquariums, and the dimensions (if I'm right about the tank) should be 20" long, 13" front to back and 18" tall. From the picture of the filter intake tube, I’m thinking you probably have a Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 for your main filtration. It should take a Rite-Size “C” cartridge for the filter media.
I’ll give you some of the bad news first. Your tank is absolutely too small for 4 H. kuda or H. erectus seahorses, even if they are small now. Seahorses don’t have much of a digestive tract, and food passes through fairly quickly to break down in the sand bed. In short, seahorses are poop factories. You have four of ‘em in such a small tank and you’re going to have high nitrates and phosphates, which leads in to your algae problems.
Let’s start by finding and removing the source of the algae. I agree that what you have there is basically cyanobacteria….it comes in different colors from green to red to brown, but in any color variety it’s a PIA to remove for good. You’ll notice something in this hobby of ours – bad things happen quickly, and fixing them almost always takes time. Cyanobacteria can grab a foothold from a lot of different sources, such as low water flow, high phosphates and nitrates, and even old lighting that has shifted to a redder spectrum. This red shift won’t be visible to your eyes, but the algae will respond with extra growth. I’m going to guess that you have a number of factors in the tank: you probably have elevated nitrates and phosphates in your tank that are being immediately taken up by the algae, you certainly have low flow if your only water movement is that filter, and you may have an old bulb since it’s a used tank. The lighting is the fastest and the easiest thing to fix; unfortunately it’s also the least problematic of the algae sources.
The water flow issue can be solved with the addition of a propeller-style powerhead…. I would recommend 1 or 2 Koralia nano powerheads. A common misconception in seahorse keeping is that they need little to no flow. On the contrary, healthy seahorses do fine with a gentle current in the tank. They even seem to enjoy it. Your goal should be to provide enough flow to sweep along the heavier algae areas while providing some areas of calm water for the horses to escape to when they wish. I would start with 1 Koralia nano, then add another in a few weeks after the horses have acclimated to the flow of the first powerhead. Koralias have a protective cage around their moving parts and are pretty safe for little seahorse tails, but you can tie some wedding tulle netting around them for extra protection if you wish.
Finally you have to decide what to do with your elevated nitrates and phosphates. It’s a catch-22 here – you may not see the tests register high amounts of these two compounds because the algae takes them up so quickly, but it’s a very good bet they’re still there. First, check the filter pad in your filter. Since you inherited an old setup, I would recommend you just go out and get a new one…..Lord only knows the last time he cleaned it, and there may be detritus deep in the blue filter adding to the nitrates. It’s a simple thing to replace and may help. Also there are products on the market that adsorb phosphate, nitrate, and a slew of other undesirable compounds. I personally use a Phosguard pillow and a Purigen pillow in my seahorse tank, and I really feel these two products help control excess phosphates and nitrogenous compounds that lead to nitrate. You can buy these products in premade filter pillows or as loose product. If your filter has an extra media basket (it will be a gray basket that has a latch on top to open) then you can tuck the premade pillows into that basket to make sure water flows past these products after it exists the blue filter media. There are also liquid products that will help remove phosphates and nitrates, such as AZNO3 and Phos-Buster, but I have no experience with these products.

 

[novahobbies]

You can also add more live rock to your system, as the amount you have pictured doesn’t really look to be enough to help with denitrification. I actually prefer base rock such as dry Tufa or another calcareous rock when it comes to seahorse tanks. Base rock, when added to a set up aquarium, will quickly develop into live bacteria-laden rock without the possibilities of unwanted pathogens or hitchhikers coming in to terrorize your horses. In a few months it will be difficult to distinguish base rock from live rock at all.
The most important thing you’re going to be able to do to slowly remove your cyano is simple: constant, religious water changes. You have a small tank with a lot of waste producers, so you’re going to need to do weekly water changes – and even more than that for these first few weeks. I would honestly suggest you do a 5 gallon water change (31%) every 3 days for the first week, such as on Tuesday, Friday, then Monday….then continue to do a 5 gallon change every weekend from then on out. As you do your water changes, try to siphon out as much of the algae as you can from the rocks, sand, and decorations. These water changes will eventually help you turn the tide against the algae war.
Some last notes: You’re not going to want to hear this, but I strongly suggest you thin your seahorse herd down to 2. Four horses are going to be a constant strain on your biological filtration, and I suspect that you’re going to have a constant battle against algae if you continue with the overstocked tank. You should also look into getting a nano protein skimmer to help with organic waste removal. I have an AquaticLife 115 skimmer which is fairly good, but if you have the dough I would suggest the Tunze nano skimmer. I’ve heard a lot of good things about those lately. Protein skimmers also add an extra aeration element to your tank, which your horses will thank you for….but that’s a post for the seahorse forum. I hope this long-winded response helps….and welcome again to the hobby!

 

[rispa]

Thank you so much! The tank is actually 17" tall 6" wide and 20" long, but your estimates are crazy accurate. Lol, will you be my fish guru? We are rather attached to the little guys, but I'll bring it up once my mom is home from work. We put the a new filter as soon as we got it, but I haven't added new charcoal to the filter yet. I'm taking care of that tonight though. We will keep up water changes for now. Based on what you said we are past due for a good change. I've been reading about protein skimmers and I like the idea of getting one, thank you for the recommendations. I'll also start looking into more live rock. I'm rather curious about how it works, so that was my next big research topic. Thank you for the help and the welcome, luckily I think this challenge is worthwhile. I had my birthday party yesterday and we had a bunch of people crowded around the tank just because the little horses are so enjoyable to watch. Feeding time is a riot too with everyone wanting to watch. Any other advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!
Oh I'll be going to the fish store tomorrow at this point so I can continue with research tonight and get everything at once.

 

[novahobbies]

6 inches wide? Just out of curiosity, are you measuring the flat side panel or on the top, from the back to the widest part of the "bow?"

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by Rispa
http:///forum/post/3294083
Thank you so much! The tank is actually 17" tall 6" wide and 20" long, but your estimates are crazy accurate. Lol, will you be my fish guru? We are rather attached to the little guys, but I'll bring it up once my mom is home from work. We put the a new filter as soon as we got it, but I haven't added new charcoal to the filter yet. I'm taking care of that tonight though. We will keep up water changes for now. Based on what you said we are past due for a good change. I've been reading about protein skimmers and I like the idea of getting one, thank you for the recommendations. I'll also start looking into more live rock. I'm rather curious about how it works, so that was my next big research topic. Thank you for the help and the welcome, luckily I think this challenge is worthwhile. I had my birthday party yesterday and we had a bunch of people crowded around the tank just because the little horses are so enjoyable to watch. Feeding time is a riot too with everyone wanting to watch. Any other advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!
Oh I'll be going to the fish store tomorrow at this point so I can continue with research tonight and get everything at once.

Before you do a thing look on this site for sea horse care, they need totally different types of tanks. Power heads create strong flow they can't handle and live rock has bristle worms that can kill a sea horse, they need stuff they can attach to more. They also eat allot and constantly..That’s all I really know about them..Oh and low temps at like 75 degrees..But double check everything we have said because we are not horse keepers.

 

[rispa]

Originally Posted by novahobbies
http:///forum/post/3294119
6 inches wide? Just out of curiosity, are you measuring the flat side panel or on the top, from the back to the widest part of the "bow?"
I measured from one corner to the other. Was an incorrect way to measure?