New fish Qtine and Treatment Procedures, Thoughts, Tips, Points, and Plans for ich & velvet PART 2

[tangs rule]

Well, I just came home from an LFS 1 hour away, and have some fish in bags - so lets set up a quick Qtine tank for them. It's ALWAYS best to plan ahead for new fishes - but an ich outbreak can happen at any time - unexpectedly if new additions are not qtined - and require fast action by the aquarist. So here they are in the cooler, still bagged:

Here is a link to PART 1 of this discussion:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/387418/new-fish-qtine-and-treatment-procedures-thoughts-tips-points-and-plans-for-ich-velvet-parasites-part-1

 

[tangs rule]

So here's the basic equipment - the tank is a little 10g, and there's only 6-7 little fishes to run thru.....I;ve a lead on a cheep ($58) orange shoulder tang that I can add to this group. Of course I;ll upgrade to a 20 or 30g - but for now the 10 should do:

 

[tangs rule]

Tank filled
Temp acclimating:

 

[slice]

What are the fish?

 

[mproctor4]

That is just kinda mean to not tell us what fish you got.

 

[tangs rule]

I had some left ofer new saltwater from Mondays w/c on the 475, so that's what was used to ffill the Qtine tank. The lfs where the fish came from kept their tanks at 1.024 sg, and were feeding PE mysis and Nutrmar Ova. I tweeked the sg of my water down to 1.024, and we have the foods in stock.
Deejeff442 wants the orange shoulder tang from this lfs - so tomorrow morning we'll upgrade the qtine tank to a 20h, and at 1pm I gotta call the lfs and go get it. Am drip acclimating the fish now. More pics to come very soon!

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mproctor4 http:///t/387926/new-fish-qtine-and-treatment-procedures-thoughts-tips-points-and-plans-for-ich-velvet-part-2#post_3417290
That is just kinda mean to not tell us what fish you got.
Ooopps - -been kinda busy, apologies to all for forgetting some basics:
we have some simple ones - with more complex fish showing up tomorrow, and Tuesday too... SO far in the tank we've:
5 blue/green chromis,
1 redfin fairy wrasse, and
1 ocellaris clown.
Tomorrow after a tank upgrade to 20H in the AM, we'll be adding an orange shoulder tang,
next week there'll be more! (may get another 20-30 gal tank running)

 

[beth]

Why are you trying to QT all those fish together, and too small tank? Is that tank cycled?

 

[tangs rule]

They drip acclimated for about an hour - but since the LFS water and mine were the same sg - there's little difference so they are in the qtine tank already. Their water pH was 8.2, and mine is at 8.0. It's imorntant to keep sg & pH pretty close to how they arrived for an acclimation this quick. I kicked on the lights for just 2 quick pictures - but since they came out I fed them some tiny pellet, thawed mysis, and a little marine cusine. Seemed like everyone was hungry! each feeding was small, but devoured within 1 minute, and everyone ate...Funny to have some fish so small they have to "chew" the mysis....most of my fish in the 475 just inhale everything I throw in there.


The red fairy wrasse is already my favorite - he's real pretty when out - but it's late and the lights are now off for the nite.
Will begin hypo 2morrow afternoon likely after the tang shows up. I also have to get a filterfloss in the powerfilter - but that'll happen in the am - for now it's actually empty, just circulating water. .....For tonight, we have a running qtine tank, with fish. Have to check the temp till bedtime and ensure it stablilzes. but other than that, they should be fine till the am - and that'll be the next post(s)!
edit: shooting for a stable temp of 78f. It's there now, but must ensure it doesn't rise too much for the next couple hours.

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/387926/new-fish-qtine-and-treatment-procedures-thoughts-tips-points-and-plans-for-ich-velvet-part-2#post_3417314
Why are you trying to QT all those fish together, and too small tank? Is that tank cycled?
#1 - these all are very small fish, none longer than 1.25 inches, most under 1" long. A 10 gal tank is fine, as this is an isolation/treatment period of 5 weeks, NOT a permanant home. BESIDES - now that I know jeff wants the OS tang, tomorrow this tank gets uppgraded to a 20h, and a 2" tang is added.
#2 Of course this tank is not cycled. When Ich breaks out in someones DT they have a choice. Set up a qtine tank, wait a month for it to cycle and by then, their DT should be empty of all fishes, as Ich VERY likely has killed them all.
OR
One can set up an EMERGENCY qtine tank and get the fish OUT of infected water and begin treatment within 1 day. This is the route I'd like to share with those who'd like to learn a method that varies from the multi-week setup period for a treatment tank. Ich is KNOWN for killing fish right quick, please let me share some methods and techniques for saving fish, rather than loosing them to ich, waiting on a tank to cycle.
We will be using some filter floss from a running/established 90g tank to "quick cycle" our qtine tank(s).
If people HAVE running/cycled qtine tanks - OBVIOUSLY this is best. BUT most of us had to learn the hard way, and FEW keep fish qtine tanks running at all times. Those who do are ahead of the game - but for those who do NOT qtine new fish - eventually you're gonna have an "emergency" and NOT have the month to wait around for a cycle.

 

[tangs rule]

So - since we made more salt water last nite - and it mixed since - Here is their new home for treatment, a 20h. SG between each tank is still 1.024. PH =8.0. Fish are still in the little tank, awaiting an hour or so for good aireation of the 20. Here shortly the fish and the cups/pvc will get moved over. Temp is the same.

Since last nite - a portion of filter from an established tank has been added (light blue thing). This piece measures about 5x8" and containes the bacteria needed to "quick cycle" our tank.. It came from a much larger filter - and was cut down to fit in the smaller filter unit here....Also it's imporntant to remove most of the carbon media from it - since they come assembled with carbon - once opened up, some shaking & finger action removes all the carbon.. Also it's best not to wash/rinse the filter floss, since that would remove/harm much of the "good" bacteria that we're trying to use. .Since this material does have a limited ability to breakdown ammonia, daily vacuuming of uneaten food/poo will need to be done, and usually only 1-2 gallons of new water will be needed to maintain descent water quality., Depending on fish bioload (number & size) - usually this daily maintenance will suffice - though if very lightly stocked, one could go a couple/3 days between vacuuming/little waterchahges. We also added just a little "cycle" to the tank, and a small dose of "amquel" wouldn't hurt anything - but my bottle is expired, and smells bad, so I'll get a new one.

The filter portion I used came from a very established invert Qtine tank that is currently known to be Ich free - but in an emergency, some filter media (less carbon) could be robbed from an infected but cycled DT. Since we will be starting hypo very soon, and the fish are already exposed - ich dieoff will be happening soon. But a chunk of filter media would be the only thing i;d use from an infected tank.. Again, the parasites are waterborne and using water from the infected DT only increases the number that will have to be dealt with in hospital tank.
If marine velvet was/is suspected, I;d already be dosing the qtine tank with copper or formalin - as hyposalinity does NOT work at all with velvet. Typically i like to get fish(s) into qtine, see if they'll eat, and treat with a 50% dose of one type or the other, then an hour or so later, bring dosage up to 100%.

 

[tangs rule]

Apologies for the delay in updates - been busy on several fronts - but here's the history:
Saturday afternoon 9/17/11 - introduced a small 2.25" orange shoulder tang for deejeff442. Acclimated him and introduced to the tank at 1.024/78.5deg f/8.1ph. left lights off for the rest of the day Sat. Fed them a little - as there;s ambient sunlight till dark in the bathroom the qtine tank is setup in.
Sunday morning, 9/18 - lights on at 0800. fed fishes and ensured everyone was eating. By 0900 all food was gone. I premixed ~15gal straight RO/DI (SG 1.000) with buffer to 8.1ph, and began Hypo by removing ~10% tank volume and replacing with buffered (8.1pH) rodi. This brought SG down to 1.021. Fed fish again couple hours later. By 5pm, removed another 10% tank volume (2 gal) and again replaced with premix ro/di. This brought Sg down to 1.018. Lights out.
Monday morning 9/19 - lights on at 0800. fed fish and again ensured all were eating. At 0900 after food was gone, again removed about 10% tank volume by vaccuming bottom of tank to remove poop, and replaced with same premixed water (8.1 pH and no salt added). SG then was about 1.014. Fed fish at noon, and at 5ish pm, again removed amother ~10%, replacing with the premix. SG now 1.011. fed fish, lights off an hour later.
Tuesday morn - same basic schedule as monday - feed/vacuum/replace water with premix - SG now at 1.008, PH 8.0, Temp 78.3. Other water parameters:
Nitrites - under .02 ppm
Free Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrates - under 1.0 ppm

Just now, since we're at 1.008 sg - I premixed 30gallons of new water at 1.008 and buffered up to 8.1pH. Tomorrow and about every other day (3 max) we'll be doing 25-50% waterchanges while really vacumming all the detritus... On a lighter stocked qtine tank - it'd be possible to go 3-5 days between waterchanges, but we have a light biocapacity, and heavy bioload - so probably everyother day we'll be doing a w/c, keeping lots of premix on hand, and in 5 weeks, we'll begin comming back up with SG - as long as fish are clear of parasites.
Here's the orange shoulder tang for deejeff442:

I cannot get a close up yet - he's still terrified of people, but he is spending more time each day outside of the cups/pvc. The rest have already learned that everytime I'm in there next to the tank, it's feeding time! and everyone eats like a hog. I suspect the tang will be much less stressed when I'm next to the tank in another 10 days/2 weeks.

 

[tangs rule]

Edit - today was also the first day of heavy feeding. Since fish usually seem to arrive a little thin - the tank consumed 1 cube of marine cusine, and about 1/3 cube mysis (excellent appitites). The tang does not know what nori and a feeding clip are yet - but he'll learn. Tomorrow is the first of many large waterchanges - replacing/vaccuming the qtine tank and adding back exact same sg/ph water - these will be 25-50% in size.. In about 10 days, we'll do the first of a couple total system breakdowns, fish into a bucket, and a total stearlize with HOT tap water of everything in the tank, except our little piece of filter floss. Then re-build the qtine tank and re-introduce fishes. This reduces/eliminates any cysted parasites within the tank. More info comming soon!
TR

 

[deejeff442]

shy fish? did you try saying here fishy fishy?

 

[tangs rule]

Fish still shy - but getting better....
So we're 1 week into a "quick" qtine/treatment tank... since the last update just feedings, testings of water, and small waterchanges.....today - we vaccummed and replaced 50% water. So far so good - everyone's eating and gettig fatter. A pic to come soon - as we also just set up a 75g qtine tank. - more fish to come too.

 

[al&burke]

Hey Tangs Rule - I set my QT up in my kitchen this time for my anthias and flasher wrasse at first they were really shy but now they don't mind when I walk by or cook or whatever - I think it is important that they start to understand that this type of movement is normal and it could mean feeding time. Last QT I did in the basement and I couldn't keep an eye on things as much. Just started a QT for inverts - I guess it is the same procedure as fish. Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.

 

[bubblegurl]

Following along

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///t/387926/new-fish-qtine-and-treatment-procedures-thoughts-tips-points-and-plans-for-ich-velvet-part-2#post_3420329
Hey Tangs Rule - I set my QT up in my kitchen this time for my anthias and flasher wrasse at first they were really shy but now they don't mind when I walk by or cook or whatever - I think it is important that they start to understand that this type of movement is normal and it could mean feeding time. Last QT I did in the basement and I couldn't keep an eye on things as much. Just started a QT for inverts - I guess it is the same procedure as fish. Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.
You're tottaly on track here.. I;ve seen fish (like deejeffs o/s tang) that are so terrified of people they are hard to keep alive....after the 50% watehacnge today, I removed another "safe" place for the tang, and he'll have to spend more time "out"...he's still eating good - and that's KEY - but new fish in qtine come from many places, and sometimes you get one that's horrified everytime I go by - or come in to feed...
They MUST begin to know that everytime some "human" goes by - it does not necessarliy mean molestation - sometimes - usually - it's just feedings...It's only been a week - but deefeffs tang is still pretty terrified - so if he makes it out of qtine - and into the 90g for isolation, i'll likely catch any one of my tangs in the 475g, like the naso, hippo, or achillies - whom ALL eat from my fingers - - and let the terrified fish spend some time some tangs who trust me, eat from my fingers/eat fingers. Fish see / fish do sometimes.
It's not unheard of to have "good" traits for some fish be passed on to others.... I've had to mix fish many times in the past to get the current lot that co-habitates in the 475 to work out. And given time and example - deejeffs orange shoulder tang should come around and be more accepting of people - but jeff won't get it till it's eating from my hand. Tangs and angles are very sociable fish - and left alone, in any tank - they'll do poorly.. I've always been one to ensure fish are acclimated to people and the tank before commitment.
In short - it's GREAT to have fish that see you very regular.....weather feeding or just passing by, new fish need to acclimate to our lifestyle, and leaving them alone in the basement doesn't not get it.. Not only should a qtine tank be for the care/protection/treatment of the new fish(s) - but conversly, a period where the newbies get used to your habits, and get used to you as keeper/caregiver...once they get this - they'll eat from your fingers, and proper qtine proceedures from here-on - can ensure a multi decade long relationship.
Your realization of this little fact - that new from the reef fishes need to be exposed to US as much as anyother - not only
will improve fish survival rates in qtine - but make for a much more interactive fishkeeping experiecne for YOU and them! It's an Honor, once one achives this fact.! ! !

 

[tangs rule]

SO - for the last week - it's been feeding, and daily small waterchanges. We've still got 5 b/g chromis, 1 tang, 1 wrasse, and 1 clown in the 20g tank - -all are eating good, no more signs of ick....did a 50% waterchange earlier, and keeping the sg at 1.008/pH @ 8.0..temp at 78. Pictures are due - comming tomorrow.....
also set up a 75g tank for large fish order comming later this week - pics coming here too!

 

[tangs rule]

Since last time, more of the same - 10-20% waterchanges everyother day. Fish still in hypo, no signs of parasites, and all eating good. Yesterday the fish went into a 5gal bucket for an hour, the tank was drained, scrubbed with hot tap water, refilled with new 1.008 water @ 8.2pH. the pvc/cups were also washed good with hot water. After the tank was refilled and running, it was allowed to run for 30 min so the water would be aireated well - then the fishes were put back in.
The 75 is ready for newbies - they should be shipped this week, the distributer had to get an achillies in stock in order to ship the order - hopefully good news is soon to come. These new fish may not get hypo - but copper meds at regular sg (if needed)
The 20g tank - - orange shoulder tang is in pvc coupler on right - he's still people terrified, and will have to be paired up later with other fish who have the opposite feeling about "the feeder" [me]...

The 75g (empty at the moment) but ready for fishes, 79deg, 1.022, 8.0 pH